Thought I'd do this Beast tribe to level Crafting because it didn't appeal to me in the least otherwise.
Things were going okay untill I hit a daily that requires two HQ items and just making them consumes all of the durability, let alone improving any chances at HQ.
Guess I'm not doing crafting then.
Okay, Echatl Nine...
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03-05-2015, 07:40 AMAhzarhuukOkay, Echatl Nine...
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03-05-2015, 07:50 AMDoctorPepper
One reason to increase ixal rank is to gain access to lvl 50 crafting rewards such as echatl sealant worth 100k+ on the mb. This allows you to obtain an item in fairly high demand worth 100k give or take in about 20-30 minutes once per day.
As for actually leveling your crafts, I highly recommend provisioning if you're not already doing it as well as leves. They're by far the fastest ways to level up your crafting. -
03-05-2015, 07:58 AMAhzarhuukFast but dull.Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorPepper
I love me some quests, and These were going really peachy untill this brickwall showed up.
I just wish the solution was more apparent. Like, how on earth are you supposed to deal with that when the recommended level is 10 levels lower than what I have but stops me dead in my tracks? -
03-05-2015, 07:59 AMGiantbaneYou can retry as many times as you want, only need to supply the shards for each attempt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahzarhuuk
But if it's really too bad, you can also just repeat the lower level daily quests that don't require HQ. You'll still get beast tribe reputation and crafting XP, it will just be at a slower rate. -
03-05-2015, 08:01 AMDoctorPepperOne thing I noticed is that if you're doing the coerthas crafting quests, you can talk to the npc and get a debuff, craft items for that single quest, then right click the debuff icon to remove it, then repeat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahzarhuuk
If you try to talk to the npc and get the debuff for multiple items it will actually give you multiple CP debuffs rather than a single one. Not sure if I described that well enough to make sense but hopefully it helps if that's where you're at.
If you end up with both the 50% CP down and 150 CP down debuffs at the same time it's pretty difficult to HQ the items. -
03-05-2015, 08:01 AMAhzarhuukI don't really want to bang my head against a 1% chance for two items. I did that enough with Atmas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Giantbane
As it stands this current tier I unlocked required me to make two items that I could not do anything to improve their quality because I needed every single step to progress the craft, and It shot my CP down to 80 So I couldn't use any abilities to restore durability. -
03-05-2015, 08:03 AMAhzarhuukNah, I'm at the step past the Coerthas ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorPepper
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03-05-2015, 08:05 AMLemuriaRestore? No, but you could use Waste Not at a mere 56 CP to make the reduction in durability a mere 5 per action... every little helps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahzarhuuk
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03-05-2015, 08:05 AMDoctorPepperNot to give spoilers or anything but the Coerthas ones I'm talking about are the final dailies you get before hitting max rank. You start getting them after Mor Dhona daily quests I believe. The same thing applies there too however.. so try doing the actual crafting one at a time and then remove the debuff you get in between instead of talking to the npc for all 3 of them at once.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahzarhuuk
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03-05-2015, 08:10 AMGiantbaneLike I said, you can just stick to the previous tier till you've leveled up enough/got better gear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahzarhuuk
Oh, and as a tip: Level up alchemist, culnarian, goldsmith, leatherworker and weaver to 15 asap. You don't even need to work hard to get any of these to 15, just sit by the guild, buy materials super cheap from the guild vendor and craft low level items. This will give you a decent set of cross class skills to use which will help quite a bit. I would also consider leveling culnarian to 37 before you level anything else. Steady Hands II is one of the more helpful skills you can pick up (and doesn't require lvl 50 like all the other really useful skills). -
03-05-2015, 08:15 AMLethallin
Seems like you could use a gear investment or just wait to get some leveling under your belt if you're having trouble just getting the things made without any quality points.
It's still not too terrible of XP to just do the lower tier crafting dailies everyday and do the turn-in provisioning. Not only for the Elachi guys, but for your Grand Company as well. Okay seals and a great chunk of XP if you give them a HQ one. You can buy what they want if you can't easily make it. -
03-05-2015, 08:28 AMUrthdigger
How's your gear, and what moves are you using? I can't think of any craft that requires you use ALL of your durability on trying to get progress.
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03-05-2015, 08:35 AMNyalia
I... I don't get the point of this post. You don't enjoy crafting, so you tried a questline that requires crafting. You found that you didn't enjoy it (big surprise?). And... that's it? Why did you post this here? You aren't looking for advice on how to get better at crafting, or advice on how to level your crafting classes, or advice on how to do the Ehcatl Nine quests with limited skills/stats. You aren't even whining or complaining about the quests, leveling crafts, or crafting in general.
On topic, I don't like Chinese food. Despite that, I tried some for lunch yesterday, and it just wasn't very good. Guess I'm not eating more Chinese food then. -
03-05-2015, 08:36 AMLaerune
Odd, my crafting classes were level 20 when I started getting the daily quests to do 2-3 HQ items per quest and I got the HQ pretty easily. My advice is get HQ gear and level atleast all crafting classes to 15, so you can get their cross skill.
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03-05-2015, 08:55 AMAhzarhuukLooking further it seems In one more level I can up a few slots and i was missing accessories.Quote:
Originally Posted by Urthdigger
So far nothing over level 23 carpenter though. I might see how well it goes with this now. -
03-05-2015, 09:08 AMNyaliaDo you have Hasty Touch (CUL 15) and Tricks of the Trade (ALC 15)? Those two are incredibly useful for these crafts. I strongly recommend getting them. If you seriously want help, if you post your stats, cross-class skills, and the name of the item you're having trouble making, I can craft an optimal rotation for you using a simulator. CRP 15 means you have Rumination, which is really nice in the right situation, especially if you have access to Waste Not (LTW 15) which combos really nicely with it. (You can get yourself to two synths from finishing progress, and then finish all of your Quality moves leaving you at 10 durability, and then Ruminate, then Waste Not with the CP from Ruminate and do your last two synths. This essentially results in spending ~12 CP to get 1 extra step, which is a really amazing deal since that normally costs ~27.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahzarhuuk
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03-05-2015, 09:29 AMAhzarhuuk
So as it turns out, having the Extra CP from Accessories really works.
Might get these other crafting classes up but for now things are workable with just Culinarian and Carpenter for the sake of the quests. If I hit another block I might try those out. -
03-05-2015, 02:31 PMBishop81
Assuming you know the Hasty Touch spam + mend method.
As other have already mentioned, you probably need better gear and watch your debuffs - the debuffs stack and only the debuff given to you for that particular craft to complete the craft; right click off the older debuff(s) (or just clear all your debuffs before you talk to the NPC to get your next quest material! -
03-05-2015, 04:31 PMseidaQuote:
Originally Posted by Ahzarhuuk
So...you had bad gear and almost no cross-class abilities, and you were surprised it was hard? Those details were kind of important, yet you didn't bother to mention them in the op... -
03-05-2015, 04:44 PMAshkendorHopefully the improvements to your gear help. Make sure it's as up to date as it can be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahzarhuuk
And yeah, those cross-class skills would be extremely helpful. -
03-05-2015, 04:55 PMKaedrianLiangYou're doing it wrong. Please consider other strategies while crafting these items. Search for guides or improvise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahzarhuuk
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03-06-2015, 02:00 AMNyalia
Just for the sake of things, here are the level 15 cross class skills and how helpful they are in relation to the Ehcatl Nine quest items:
- CUL 15 (Hasty Touch): If you are low level (only ~10 levels above the official recipe level), this skill is practically required. It does the same thing as a Basic Touch, except the chance of success is 50% instead of 70%, and it costs 0 CP instead of 18 CP.
- ALC 15 (Tricks of the Trade): Extremely useful. It turns Good conditions into +20 CP. Since Good come up about 1/4th of the time, this will give you, on average, 40-80 extra CP. That's a lot of extra CP.
- LTW 15 (Waste Not): Useful for nearly any synth, especially these. Master's Mend costs 92 CP for 3 extra durability-consuming actions, for a cost of 30.67 CP/action (and Manipulation costs 88CP for 3, or 29.33 CP/action). Waste Not costs 56 and gives you 2 extra actions, for a cost of 28 CP/action. More importantly, sometimes you can't afford to pay for 3 actions, but could afford to pay for 2. Having Waste Not gives you that option. The only caveat is that you can't do anything but spend Durability for the next 4 actions after using Waste Not, or it's wasted, with one exception. One time during the synth, you can do just 3 durability-consuming actions following Waste Not and still get +2 actions. This is because there is no mechanical difference between 10 CP and 5 CP, or 0 CP and -5 CP. Because of this quirk, the limitations are effectively negated for one use of Waste Not.
- CRP 15 (Rumination): Useful with Waste Not, difficult to use usefully otherwise. Rumination consumes Inner Quiet and restores CP based on the number of Inner Quiet stacks (a fair average amount to use in analysis is +45 CP, which is from IQ6). However, Inner Quiet grants a massive quality bonus. Losing Inner Quiet before the final touch moves makes those last few touch moves about half as effective. This loss, in many senses, more than negates any bonus you get from having extra CP to work with if you plan on touching after Ruminating. However, you don't have to touch after Ruminating to get a benefit from having extra CP. The trick is to save a Durability increasing move and 2-4 Progress moves for the very end. Either: do all the touching you can, leaving yourself with 5 or 10 durability, about 47 CP, and the need for 4 more progress moves. Then, use Ruminate to restore your CP to 92, use Master's Mend, and then the four progress moves. You've just spent 47 CP for 3 extra moves, which is a great deal (15.67 CP/action). However, you need to have 4 progress moves remaining for it to be worth it, and that's not normally the case in my experience. Alternatively, if you have Waste Not, you can leave yourself with 10 durability (not 5), about 11 CP, and the need for 2 more progress moves. Ruminate, use Waste Not, and then do the final two progress moves. You've just spent 11 CP to get 1 extra move, which is an amazing deal.
- ARM 15 (Rapid Synthesis): Rarely good for Ehcatl Nine quests, but can be nice in the right circumstances. You do not want Rapid to be your finishing move because it has such a high chance of failing (same chance as Hasty Touch). You do not want to rely on it, you want to do it first if at all, during your Hasty Touch phase. Many Ehcatl Nine synths will be finished in a single use of Rapid Synthesis, making it useless for them. However, if the synth requires enough progress that a Rapid Synthesis won't instantly finish it, using one early on can really help you out later. In the case where you will need 3.5 Basic Synthesis uses to complete a synth, using one Rapid Synthesis early on gives you a 70% chance of saving 20 durability, which is a lot of durability.
- GSM 15 (Manipulation): Saves you a bit of CP (4-12), but that's it. Manipulation is an alternate version of Master's Mend. Master's Mend costs 92 CP and restores 30 durability. Manipulation costs 88 CP and restores 10 durability a step for 3 steps. The biggest advantage to Manipulation is that in 40 durability synths, you need to be down to 5 or 10 durability to get the full benefit from Master's Mend. You can Manipulate at 15 or 20 durability and still easily get the full benefit. This flexibility can be nice, but for other synths, it just saves you a tiny bit of CP.
- WVR 15 (Careful Synthesis): Can be nice to use in the right circumstances, but it's really not needed at all. Basic Synthesis is 100% progress with a 90% success rate. Careful Synthesis is 90% progress with a 100% success rate. But, 90% success is plenty. You likely will have some Steady Hand left over after you finish your Touches, making Basic Synthesis more useful than Careful Synthesis anyway.
- BSM 15 (Ingenuity): Totally useless for this specific purpose. Ingenuity lowers the level of the craft, which helps immensely for crafts that are a bit higher level than you, and helps some for crafts that are your level. However, the Ehcatl Nine quests are technically very low level for their difficulty. It is very strange for someone to attempt them with a class that isn't 10 levels above the technical level of the craft. This level difference results in Ingenuity having nearly no effect at all.
Hope this helps someone!