I came across this post of different types of tanks (from the perspective of a healer), and thought it might be fun to see how they stack up in XIV (from my own experiences, of course!)
Seen on occasion, but doesn't seem terribly common in XIV.Quote:
Tanks who position themselves in set-piece boss battles like no other tank ever, yet insist that "everyone does it this way".
XIV doesn't really allow for this kind of stat variation but occasionally I do get tissue-paper tanks. Especially wars that want to solo tank stuff that gives vulnerability stacks x.xQuote:
Tanks who have so much health that you just know they have no damage mitigation whatsoever and they're as likely to survive as a house of cards being hit by a bowling ball.
More of a problem with healers than tanks, in my experience. "Oh I can heal this!" and then it ends up feeling like I'm solo healing...Quote:
Tanks who are alts of people who normally DPS, who know the fights backwards as DPS but are utterly clueless as tanks.
The undergeared I've seen plenty, apologetic usually not, instead they just blame the healing...Quote:
Tanks who are under-geared and over-apologetic. Yes, I know you're wearing armour made of tissue-paper, you don't have to keep saying you're sorry every time I have to scrape you up off the floor.
Yep. One of the few that gets under my skin. Or if they let me die to add aggro while they burn the boss, then go and pull a trash pack before I've even gotten back to the party x.xQuote:
Tanks so single-minded that they are oblivious to the presence of the rest of the group. Was someone explaining the fight in chat? Too bad.
Seen this one, but in XIV it seems like DPS are usually the hasty pullers, healers after that, and least commonly tanks.Quote:
Tanks who are last to be ready for every fight, then start it without warning and complain that no-one else was ready.
Health not so much, but for oneshotting/excessive squishiness... Definitely in XIV, mostly wars from what I've seen, especially something with vulnerability stacks. (Always the healer's fault, of course)Quote:
Tanks with less health than me. These are usually among the testiest when they get smashed to pieces, as clearly it's the healer's fault they can be one-shotted.
Hmm. No, the tanks I've seen with comedic gear are usually pretty good at their job and reasonably mature.Quote:
Tanks who wear pumpkins or other comedy headware. We can tell you're 13 by your vocabulary, you don't have to wear the uniform too.
Haven't seen this one in XIV. I myself kinda get irritated at DPS pulling (though accidents are understandable).Quote:
Tanks who say they're going in then don't. They will, of course, complain heartily if anyone took them at their word and stepped into aggro range, because"pulling is the tank's job".
Yep. Bonus points when they popped that CD too late for it to mitigate the tank buster (if they popped it at all).Quote:
Tanks who tell the healer how to heal. This is like being rescued following a road traffic accident and telling the paramedics that you want blue bandages. No, that that way up, the other way up. Oh, and put them on using a paint roller.
Well... I don't think this is role specific. I'm guilty of this >.> <.<Quote:
Tanks who never say anything, ever, for any reason.
Replaced bugged with other excuses but yep, this one's abound.Quote:
Tanks who complain that everything is bugged. "It's that bug where the boss resets aggro". No, it's that moment where the boss always resets aggro and you were all out of taunts.
In XIV, I haven't seen standing in AoEs be as big of a problem as CD use (but it does happen on occasion). Yes I have my own CDs but if they're going to do really large pulls or if we're in a fight with tank busters it's not enough x.xQuote:
Tanks who stand in the fire then complain that you can't heal them through it. "I thought you were better geared!". Yes, and I thought you were better-brained. Don't stand in the fire!
In XIV I've seen this a lot more on DPS than tank roles. A lot more. Fortunately, DPS are pretty replaceable.Quote:
Tanks who are brittle and unforgiving. The slightest mistake by anyone (tank excepted) and they're screeching about how they hate PUGs and why don't people learn the fights. They threaten bitterly to quit the group if people don't shape up. Everyone is immensely relieved when they make good on this promise.
Well... Weapon can't be an issue in XIV. Accessories can be, depending on if the tank is really as overgeared for the content as they think they are. And less health means they need to be better with CDs, and CD use is where I most often see issues.Quote:
Tanks who use weapons meant for DPS, which they justify on the basis of some obscure feature they claim helps tanking, but you know the real reason is because they don't have any other weapons...
Oh man I see this one all the time. One of the big reasons I never talk on /party. But it's not really tanks especially, it's everyone.Quote:
Tanks who are certain of falsehoods. No amount of argument will persuade them that there is a simple way to beat this boss that doesn't involve the healer's having to stand in the fire.
DPS give me more heart attack moments than tanks in XIV, and the way XIV fights are designed, I think the youtube thing applies equally to everyone. Learn the fight's script!--seems to be the XIV mantra. But seeing PLDs pop Hallowed Ground even as I've got buffed heals coming down on them isn't that uncommon.Quote:
Tanks who are easily confused. If the fight goes how it went in the Youtube video they watched, they're fine. Any slight devaition, though, and they spam every one of their abilities not on cooldown. If they survive, they'll usually compliment your healing, which is sweet of them, given how much they just made you panic.
These tanks are bros. My favorite to heal, even if they struggle with something here or there.Quote:
Tanks who never give up. The DPS is clearly incompetent and there's no way we'll defeat the boss before the server is taken down for maintenance next week, but the tank just gets up without complaint, goes straight back in and gets beaten to a pulp time and time again. You have to admire their perseverence. Maybe one of the DPSs is a relative or something.
Carrying is not much of a thing in XIV (compared to other games), though I did see a war solo the last stone sigil HM boss once.Quote:
Tanks who are an order of magnitude better than everyone else. Did the rest of the group get killed by that earthquake? No problem! The tank will just solo the boss.
Same as the never-give-up types. <3 these tanks.Quote:
Helpful tanks. Ones who actually teach people useful stuff without mocking them for not having revised a fight as if it were an exam.
These too. And DPS that self-heal when I've got a tank at 10% to worry about. Also <3 DPS and tanks that don't let adds eat me alive.Quote:
Good, adaptive tanks. Ones who go where they're supposed to go, are hit by what they're supposed to be hit by, interrupt what killer moves they're supposed to interrupt, who self-heal when they spot the DPSs are standing in fire and the healer has to fix them. These are a joy to heal.
Anyone else have any archetypes to add?
Just for fun: Tank archetypes!
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03-03-2015, 05:11 AMRisvertasashiJust for fun: Tank archetypes!
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03-04-2015, 03:09 AMTex_Mex
Tanks that pull 3 packs at once when any of the following are true:
1) They are undergeared
2) Their DPS are both MNK
3) Their healer is undergeared
After the expected wipe, they bitch about how long the dungeon takes when you go one group at a time.
This one always kills me because it is SO easy to spot when pulling multple packs is a bad idea. If your healer has under 3.5k health.... not smart -
03-04-2015, 07:13 AMDonjo
Oh, you mean the "Cumon, step it up!" Tank?
http://oi47.tinypic.com/rqwzh1.jpg -
03-04-2015, 08:33 AMWintersandmanDepends on the dungeon. WP I did with a healer with 2.9k. I also did it because he was trying to heal in Cleric Stance and was proving a point. I said something before and he ignored me. Run went much smoother and I could pull multiples. Maybe not as large as I normally would but also with in an acceptable tolerance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex_Mex
Also can add my own solo boss. One dps and the healer died at 75% and the second DPS died at 60% on first boss in Halatali HM. From there I proceeded to solo the boss. -
03-04-2015, 01:56 PMWadoka
"Tanks who are an order of magnitude better than everyone else. Did the rest of the group get killed by that earthquake? No problem! The tank will just solo the boss."
I've done that in Cutter's Cry, but in my experience when this happens, it's a Bard who pulls this off. Seven dead team mates and a raging, kiting Bard for the win... -
03-04-2015, 02:43 PMTruebladeNukeI had a case like this in reverse order. I was Tanking a dungeon, both DPS were Monks, so I figured AoE power was more or less non-existent, and thus I made smaller pulls then I usually do. (Because you know, MNK's were designed more or less to pick out a single target and demolish that said target) Said WHM goes and runs off pulling all groups I haven't pulled with Aero's and runs back to us with HUGE mobs following him/her. I pull all hate for the sake of not allowing the Healer to die, but the MNK's made it quite known they didn't like that. WHM just scoffs, saying pulling all mobs is required, period, due to gear levels. Nevermind the fact that both DPS are Monks...Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex_Mex
Got through just fine though, since I know what I'm doing as a Tank and WHM knew what to do as WHM. Did take awhile to fully destroy any large trash mob due to lack of AoE power, save the WHM.
Said scenario could have easily classified as a "WTFWHM" scenario, if it weren't for dem pro heals. -
03-04-2015, 06:18 PMLovemonster
I wonder why monks wouldn't like it though. They keep their G3 rather than lose it between each pull since no tank staggers their pulls these days and WHM gets to Holy which means a faster dungeon in general.
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03-05-2015, 03:04 AMTruebladeNukeDepends on who you end up running with mostly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovemonster
While those Monks made it known that due to their class, AoE power was lacking, others MNK's I've worked with don't complain. It's more or less that like I said in my earlier post, Monks were designed to pick out a single target and quickly destroy that target. AoE isn't their thing. (And it was obvious during the pulls of that run I made. It took longer to bring down the mobs than say... if I had 2 BLM's with me) Most players playing as a MNK understand that too. If it really comes down to the Monk needing to spam AoE, (and most that I've seen go for this anyway, lol) the best they can do is use the "Perfect Balance" buff and then spam Rockbreaker... which only lasts for 10 seconds. (And then they have to wait for the cooldown) Bonus points to them if they pop damage buffs before Perfect Balance. Oh, and line themselves to toss out a Howling Fist, which is a free CD skill use.
Because of the way the MNK is designed, this means that WHM's have to worry about their MP management even more if they're going to Cleric Stance Holy, even with Shroud of Saints MP management. (Cause Holy is expensive per cast) SCH's not so much, despite not having Holy to spam.
I'd also say it depends on the dungeon too. I could see fully beefed out teams of 2 MNK DPS getting away with bigger pulls on the lower/beginner High Level dungeons, like Wanderer's Palace. (Like how I managed to get through just fine anyway in that one run) But the higher up dungeons where the enemies take more hits to bring down and hit harder? Becomes debatable then. Down to how well your party members dodge things and such. I can't really give a full "correct" answer here, as every person is different in how they want to approach a dungeon, regardless of party setup. Me? I just try to adapt as best I can, and hope the others do the same.
tl;dr: Depends on the party, dungeon, etc. -
03-05-2015, 08:52 AMUrthdigger
The bit on tanks being confused is why it bugs me when videos and guides day to do or not do something, but don't mention the consequences.
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03-10-2015, 11:34 PMAurelinausI'm guilty of that but it's because I main heals and go by what I know I could heal worst case. I've learned to drastically lower the bar in DF when I tank.Quote:
Originally Posted by Donjo
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03-10-2015, 11:57 PMaisustrong
something I do pretty often is toggle defiance
get a hefty lead in aggro at start, turn it off for extra dps (unless there's enough incoming damage, I can just leave it off the rest of the pull. having leveled both healers I know what to expect from them and what mobs just hit to hard) -
03-11-2015, 12:25 AMMXMoondoggie
The main annoyance for Tanks in FFXIV i find are just the mad dog types who like to charge in pull a bunch of stuff and then just totally focus on a single target no matter what even when they lose aggro on everything else which then murders the Healer then DPS to which mad dog says "If you steal aggro then you deal with the mobs" They are also a pain in a Raid because no matter who the MT is they will mad dog on the boss pulling aggro away from the MT moving the boss all over the place so it cleaves the DPS standing behind it.
Annoyance #2. The Diva. This guy thinks he's something special and a lot of the time they are really not. They will start making tons of ridiculous demands about kicking somebody because they are the wrong class or they don't have the best gear or they'll pull a bunch of mobs they are not geared to be pulling then get ripped apart like paper, verbally abuse the Healer and talk about how trashy they are and demand they are kicked or they'll throw a tantrum and just leave. For added annoyance get the Diva with the DPS sidekick. The DPS is up their backside because they get fast queues so will agree with everything they say and try to force a majority for kicks.
Annoyance #3. Has been mentioned but the types who watched a guide and have to follow that guide to the letter even when experienced people suggest a better strat which will make their lives easier as well as the group. If something unexpected happens they run around like headless chickens. Had some really petty people get moody with me over this even down to really mundane things like on Shiva EX. "All Healers must go on B" Why? I'm far more comfortable on the one i want to go on and it means i can throw a group heal from a standing position that will hit the Tank without having to move. There was a bunch of other stuff too like they follow the Mr.Happy guide which is very good but following a list and not learning how to get the best out of a run is counterproductive.
The best Tank to run with by far is the guy who learns quickly who he is in a party with, what they can do and what they can't and adjusts to it. Can take care of themselves when DPS need help and won't put needless pressure on a group clearly not geared and/or ready for it. Met some Tanks with an incredible amount of patience with a group even when something goes wrong they just explain how people can do better and carry on. These guys are my heroes. -
03-11-2015, 08:21 AMph03n1x13I just had a tank like this. I may be sick, but I can still heal like a boss.Quote:
Originally Posted by MXMoondoggie
I'll add an annoyance to this: Tanks who refuse to use DCDs, but pull big. They will then blame the healer for not healing enough, even if you're chaincasting Cure/Physik. (pt.1) -
03-11-2015, 09:09 AMph03n1x13
(pt.2) ... Maybe I just have bad luck with tanks, but I've had too many try to do huge pulls, but won't use any of the DCDs. I can usually heal through 2, maybe 3 pulls without a cooldown. It's possible that I might not be that good a healer, but those cooldowns are there for a reason, right?
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03-11-2015, 08:35 PMNoira
My favorite tank:
Coil Bro Tank: In mostly dreadwrym with a few augumented piece, he's cheerful and helpful, keeps his head on and enjoys the run, does pulls appropriate to the group set up, if mistakes occur he picks up laughs it off and keeps going. He's in a hurry sure but he makes the time effective for all. Stops when SS and adlo need applying for big or giant pulls, pops his cooldowns when needed.
Not so favorite:
Not so bro coil tank: The one in dreadwrym and augumented pieces who is a complete jerk to the party, impatient and runs off without letting me prep them for big pulls and rarely pops cooldowns because "LOL I'm ilv 130 this is nothing" As I have to panic heal to get them through the pulls.
The Whm Spoiled Tank: My most disliked tank. So used to whm that a sch will simply not do and whm has now been reduced to a crutch. They don't do big or giant pulls because "LOL We need holy for that" Never mind that a sch can dot and use shadow flare (further damage mitigation). Nevermind that if there are two blm in the party it means selene is coming out making the run that much faster. (two blm are quite common in this tank's set up).
The PLD pulling WAR: We've all ran into this guy, the War who pulls like a PLD, and then drop like flies. -
03-12-2015, 05:13 AMRisvertasashiAs mentioned, this is the most common problem I see as well. As a further extension... it doesn't seem too many tanks are really aware of just how much load they're putting on the healers, and by a second extension, the limits (<3 the ones that are, of course). Noira's "Not so bro coil tank" is a good example.Quote:
Originally Posted by ph03n1x13
SCH I think has a bit more potential than most give it credit for. Lustrate mixed in with adlos works great while you've got stacks, after that... Illumination is basically Divine Seal (20% instead of 30% but it works for both Eos and you). Rouse+WD can be fired while still adlo'ing, and once fired Eos can then add her embrace's back to the mix as well.
Of course once all the CDs are burned, well, I hope at least some of the pack is dead xD -
03-12-2015, 07:43 AMArtairIt's more efficient for a WAR to pull big in dungeons than it is for a PLD. Unchained + zerk + IR + maim + bloodbath + vengeance + overpower spam, and you can wave goodbye to most of that pack before zerk wears off regardless of the type of DPS you have, while self healing most of the incoming damage. The 50 potency retaliation from vengeance while fully buffed with bloodbath up is no joke.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noira
Disclaimer: Does not apply to vit heroes. -
03-16-2015, 03:57 PMAzurr
Lets Face Aoes at Party tank: why am I the only one dodging? everyone should dodge >:D
More common in low levels but sometimes crops in higher level instances.
Lets not dodge SHT tank: Tank that stands in one spot and never budges, no matter how many aoes light up under them, in any situation.
The tank that actually asks if people need EXP in lower levels when someone is not at 50: real MVPs :').
The DPS Tank in 4 mans: They wont leave sword oath no matter what, expecting the healer to shoulder all the damage being dealt to them with limited cooldowns if any and preventing healers from dpsing so they could 'fight or flight' all the things. Oh and aggro? Psh I got all the aggro with my glorious damage on a single target in a mob.
There is a time and place for tanks to dps, but its not in expert dungeons where stuff hits like trucks and you have nothing but str accs on. And not in DF with strangers. -
03-16-2015, 08:10 PMLovemonster
VIT for trash pulls, STR for bosses (+Sword Oath) I think is the best idea. You can change gear sets really easily anyway, and speccing STR is np, 30 VIT is so little now. Sword oath on big pulls is just retarded. You're only gonna flash anyway, your circle of scorn does garbage damage.
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03-17-2015, 03:44 PMelemental10
The tank who won't shut up and keeps saying he's a better healer, but doesn't have one leveled.
Wut. -
03-17-2015, 06:05 PMAurelinaus
Don't Have a name for these tanks but they plague df like cockroaches. They're almost always a Tome hero and VIT maxed. They're going to MT due to ilvl and hp, are going to explain the fight and/or how to your role to you. Then shortly afterwards demonstrate that their knowledge of the fight does not extend beyond a dated youtube video after wiping the raid several times. Bonus if they don't even know how to play their own job.
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03-17-2015, 09:32 PMRaminax
Well, why not try at some terrible humor too, then? D:
Reading? That's for elitist spreadsheet nerds!
This guy is the guy that doesn't Flash and purely spams Rage of Halone. At first, you'd think he merely misread the fine print on the tooltips, but he will insist that he's definitely doing more DPS and healing than the party combined, despite the fact that he's constantly losing aggro, even on the target of his Rage of Halone affections. Almost always a Paladin, weirdly enough.
Roulette! Spin, O' precious wheel!
This one decided that at some point in life, standing still is boring. He will run circles around the boss, and the boss will eventually tank buster cleave half the group, more than likely killing all the healers in one fell swoop while they're hugging and comforting each other. He's not doing it out of malice, though. He's just that bored. Bane of all DPS who rely on positional requirements.
The rock.
Imperishable, indomitable, invincible and all that. Your FC will likely mention that said person once lost aggro at some point, or forgot popping a cooldown and wiped the raid spectularly, but details are hazy, so you begin doubting the stories. Will maintain aggro on the boss for the whole fight, despite disconnecting at 30 % left.