Suggestions Relic Weapons

Hi :)

I notice that now the relic weapons goes as far as ilvl 135 just like dreadwyrm weapons, making the whole " end game weapon irrelevant " and players having an end game weapon and don't even go to final coil.
So my suggestion is: The next relic upgrade maybe on the expansion "like relic ilvl 150"
The only way we can get the relic to ilvl 150 is to go to the last instance (dungeon) "something worst then bahamut I gess" to get 3 items needed to upgrade the relic to ilvl 150, it only drops 1 at the time and have a 50% chance or lower to drop (no need, greed and repeat item). But even if the fight drops a weapon the relic will become the end game weapon, making players fight and work for the best weapon in the game.

I know its a little sketchy, and I know I'm going to get a lot of flame.
I know you'll have to go to alot of extreme boss fight and all to upgrade to ilvl 135, but with static groups many players are given a "ride" get a relic to ilvl 135.

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Originally Posted by blackwolfx9

I know its a little sketchy, and I know I'm going to get a lot of flame.
I know you'll have to go to alot of extreme boss fight and all to upgrade to ilvl 135, but with static groups many players are given a "ride" get a relic to ilvl 135.

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As a relic user I would sorta have to agree....The Dread had max 3 months of shelf life and that's if you even obtained it in time I feel like once I obtain my ZZeta(I've down'd 13 5 times ) I will have nothing ''end game'' wise to look forward to unless 2.55 brings some sort of mini 8 man raid or EX primal that's just out of this world. I don't agree however on no reason to actually clear final coil while I see there isn't a direct incentive aside from a title and the armor that still drops there. There is a sense of pride and I can see it even in people who still make T9 phase 4 parties etc etc. I suggest relics continue as I know they will be def make them come from fights and epic encounters aswell

Without regard to the way in which weapons are obtained... the one nice thing SE has done is make each weapon respectable and unique in it's own right. Speaking from a BLM perspective.. one staff may benefit a caster going for Spell Speed whereas another may benefit in CRIT, DET or ACC. This makes players think and adjust many aspects of their gear composition. It's not the same for everyone.

I have 130 Ironworks gear but my crafted gear still shreds it. My crafted weapon is better than my Novus. But my Novus has spell speed and my Ebony Staff has ACC. I need light for my Novus. Fun times trying to figure out which I'll run based on Trial/Raid I'm doing. I kind of like it and I kind of hate it at the same time.

i agree you got my like!

I disagree with this completely. What I would like to see is relic specific content, not forcing people into hardcore endgame raids. I had to start up a scob group just in hopes of getting back into fcob with a decent group. The reason why they haven't already made relic drops from coil is because, pre-nerf, it's not going to be abe to be done fast enough. You want a 50% or less. Ok, so from what I understand, you want to add anot her element to an already messed up rng set-up, on content you can only do once a week, and have it drop 3 separate items? Um.... no thanks, we already have way too much rng reliant content.

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Originally Posted by blackwolfx9

Hi :)

I notice that now the relic weapons goes as far as ilvl 135 just like dreadwyrm weapons, making the whole " end game weapon irrelevant " and players having an end game weapon and don't even go to final coil.

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Why is it, that people who complain the most about end game content never actually have reached said end game content?

OP, perhaps you should spend more time on "gittin gud", rather than stuff outside your realm of experience :p

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Originally Posted by Mewnie

Why is it, that people who complain the most about end game content never actually have reached said end game content?

OP, perhaps you should spend more time on "gittin gud", rather than stuff outside your realm of experience :p

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Lol, she got no clue, or its an alt. Either way, gear is a joke, wouldn't even be able to properly dps during a raid without them crOSS class skills.

I need to check the lodestone a bit more often

And, honeslt, it's not going to change anything, except rmt business. You think people have the experience, skill, a group, or the gil to go through 13? That's laughable, half the people on the game can't even beat titan. And groups on balmung are already selling 13, just left there recently. So, being unable to beat t13 through skill or because of a lack of a group, they would have no choice but to buy it. Do you really think it's cheap for a t13 carry? T12 was 40 mil, so 13 would be ungodly. Jenova has a lack of sellers, thought about maybe starting something up :)

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Originally Posted by Mewnie

Why is it, that people who complain the most about end game content never actually have reached said end game content?

OP, perhaps you should spend more time on "gittin gud", rather than stuff outside your realm of experience :p

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I started playing less then 30 days ago, i got friends doing T13 and updating me on whats happening, besides I'm gearing faster than the average player and have a decent DPS (even with this 110 gear) with a BARD, I don't have end game gear and all the classes at 50 because sometimes I sleep, eat and play other games.
I wasn't trying to make a point, it was just a opinion.

disagree 100%

relics should be the best weapons, and their current design on how to obtain them is exactly where it should be and beyond

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Originally Posted by Mindylou

disagree 100%

relics should be the best weapons, and their current design on how to obtain them is exactly where it should be and beyond

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agreed the il being the same as the current raid weapons is just fine especially for those of us who do do final coil but don't have a static.

so sad too see pll disagree... its more good too see an max lvl relic user ruin your runs in simple ex primals or t9.... and some even t5.......and doing lalalala dps even if having beter weapon...... make it at least related too some end game content so that the ones that have it actuly deserv it

but 1ª relic weapon shoud never and i mean never be the same lvl of end game content.
2º if cant do end game or dont want you dont need an end game weapon for ex primals and ct´s etc the current mark weapons its enuf
3º if you think farming low lvl instances and itens for the relic shoud give you the same iten lvl that pll that do the hardest current content its just lol gg just go for the fisher job full time lolol

The relic is designed for casual players and it will stay that way.

When you're jelly about Dreadwyrm weapons (Binding Coil is just as boring casual content as everything else. The only thing that takes even remotely a tiny bit of skill is PvP.) being not the very best weapon because it's just slightly worse (which makes like no difference anyway), then perhaps you should seek some serious help. You need it.

The best way to make a game boring is to strip away options. There are three ways to obtain relevant gear:

1) Raid for it
2) Make it
3) Buy it with currency obtained through monotonous grinding

These three methods allow players of varying styles access to gear that will allow them to enjoy all the content of the game without being forced to play in a way that doesn't suit them.

The relic weapon quest line is already a tremendous pain in the ass. It only seems like less work because you do it in pieces as the game grows. Compare two people starting the game at the same time. One networks and gets with a FC that helps them raid for Coil gear, the other solo's and starts the relic quests. I'm willing to bet a lot of money that the person who goes from nothing to Zeta dedicates CONSIDERABLY more to the game than the person who ends up raiding. Forcing someone into the coils to obtain their relic is stacking too much into the favor of the raids and should never be done. They're almost as likely to get a raid drop anyway.

It will never be a good idea if you put relic upgraded behind end game raids the clear sellers would have a bigger market of stuff to sell.

And who is any one to even suggest that relic upgrading isn't work it takes time to finish the il to match raid weapons is justified.

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Originally Posted by blackwolfx9

Hi :)

I notice that now the relic weapons goes as far as ilvl 135 just like dreadwyrm weapons, making the whole " end game weapon irrelevant " and players having an end game weapon and don't even go to final coil.

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While FCoB is a skill test, the relic is more a endurance test, it isn't the same difficulty, but both takes a lot of time and patience to do.
Now, if you clear FCoB and your weapon doesn't drop? My group cleared FCoB 14 times so far and never saw the WHM, BRD and SMN weapons, while we have 6 MNK claws, it isn't fair that everyone in my group but my WHM and BRD doesn't get an i135 based on luck.
Also, you forgot a crucial point, if you put time to hone your skills and be able to do content, you probably have an edge over people that doesn't want or doesn't have the time to do end game content. By this logic, with your higher skill, you can pretty much do the same someone with an i135 relic do using even an 115 weapon.

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Originally Posted by Mindylou

disagree 100%

relics should be the best weapons, and their current design on how to obtain them is exactly where it should be and beyond

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They certainly are a lot of work and effort and should be worth it after all is said and done.

Yeah, my group is right on the cusp of downing T13, and I couldn't disagree more w/ the OP.

That being said, there was another thread a couple months ago that kind of got into the relic discussion. The poster's suggestion was to allow players who finish the top tier raid relic-upgrade rights as soon as the raid is introduced, and, after so long, open the regular route for players who have not or do not raid. That way relic would always be the best, have multiple paths, and the raiders with special snowflake syndrome could still lord their e-peens over ppl after completing top-raid-x early.

I don't necessarily think that's a great idea (i like how it is now), but it would at least be more in line with how this game paces progression for raiders and non-raiders.

Here's my stance. If the weapons are to match the current drops from the "hardest" content in the game, these weapons need to force players into having some sort of skill instead of it being a mindless grind/rng fest. There are a shit-ton of players who have never even seen Ifrit EX because they aren't able to clear Titan Ex. EX primal Atma's... Second Coil Atma's... something. I use the term Atma just to give off an impression. 50% drop rate would be more pleasing.

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Originally Posted by Skeith-Adeline

Here's my stance. If the weapons are to match the current drops from the "hardest" content in the game, these weapons need to force players into having some sort of skill instead of it being a mindless grind/rng fest. There are a shit-ton of players who have never even seen Ifrit EX because they aren't able to clear Titan Ex. EX primal Atma's... Second Coil Atma's... something. I use the term Atma just to give off an impression. 50% drop rate would be more pleasing.

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simple words but on the point! but this seem verry hard for many pll too understand some how xd

The dreadwym weapon had what. 4 months to be supreme? It's fine.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

The dreadwym weapon had what. 4 months to be supreme? It's fine.

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and it shoud be supreme no mather the time even a year for that mather until the new hard raid content comes out and as far as i know theres no new raid in gold saucer xd

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Originally Posted by darkblast

and it shoud be supreme no mather the time even a year for that mather until the new hard raid content comes out and as far as i know theres no new raid in gold saucer xd

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Disagree completely. It's fine the way it is. The cycles don't last long enough for that.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

Disagree completely. It's fine the way it is. The cycles don't last long enough for that.

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so not evry one do the last contant as soon it comes out cause got static late lack of time or just recent new too the game dont you think its unfair been on t13 and not having or recently having the weapon and now theres a beter one that you can get face rolled so t13 is for wat? minion and a title?

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Originally Posted by darkblast

so not evry one do the last contant as soon it comes out cause got static late lack of time or just recent new too the game dont you think its unfair been on t13 and not having or recently having the weapon and now theres a beter one that you can get face rolled so t13 is for wat?

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Nope. I don't feel the need to hold my achievement over anyone else. I'll know what I've achieved and that's good enough for me.

Also, punctuation will make your sentence easier to read.

it is a terrible idea... the thing is, coil was made as a group effort, and a reward for the group, while you may be lucky and get something... most likely you wont, but at least someone is getting a piece of gear.

If you include something like a mat needed from the coil, that means either the whole group *static* or the one person will have to go though coil again and again til everyone gets it or the person *solo* gets it.

In the group scenario, if a single person doesnt have a good luck and requires him over 20 runs to get the drop *which was around the number of runs i had to do to get the body armor for tank in the first coil* he will be dragging the rest of the group down becuase they will have to free up some of their own " solo" playtime *like doing roueltes or beastribes* to get this person his drop. Now, you could say that everyone and specially that last guy should also try to pug it when they have time, this would make him join the solo scenario.

For the Solo scenario that you are basically asking for a bunch of people who doesnt know the skills of the other players nor their past experiences in the instance, to group up and beat the content made to test the skills and coordination of a static group reliably enough to farm the fight. As mentioned, a drop rate of 50% could be implemented, and that still wouldnt be reasonable considering the difficulty of the content. Just like Yoshida said before about the crystal tower, it was way harder before, but they toned it down due to human factor. A very good example of this it he Ramuh farming, to this day it is actually quite common to see farm parties wiping and disbanding in there.

While i dont really have any strong feelings about the zeta being 135, one way to avoid such issues in the future is make the end game required for that little last push. keeping the current ilv as an example, say the dread weapons are 135, and the zeta would actually be 130, or go even lower, 125 to avoid more complications. this would make raid weapons the best in ilv and such, but to make relic relevant, they are able to customize stats but "end" at either 125 or 130 ilv. But if the raid weapon stats arent to your liking, or you dont have the luck, if you have the relic equiped and do whatever you have to do being either beat a turn or beat all of it *maybe bumping 1 ilv after beating each turn and the last one increases 2 ilv*, you can bump the relic in 5 ilv. In the 130 situation making it go up to 135 and in the 125 situation going up to 130.

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Originally Posted by Silkerin

While i dont really have any strong feelings about the zeta being 135, one way to avoid such issues in the future is make the end game required for that little last push. keeping the current ilv as an example, say the dread weapons are 135, and the zeta would actually be 130, or go even lower, 125 to avoid more complications. this would make raid weapons the best in ilv and such, but to make relic relevant, they are able to customize stats but "end" at either 125 or 130 ilv. But if the raid weapon stats arent to your liking, or you dont have the luck, if you have the relic equiped and do whatever you have to do being either beat a turn or beat all of it *maybe bumping 1 ilv after beating each turn and the last one increases 2 ilv*, you can bump the relic in 5 ilv. In the 130 situation making it go up to 135 and in the 125 situation going up to 130.

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its not a bad idea also

Having alternative means of getting equivalent weapons is never a bad idea. Everyone is just mad that their coil weapons aren't the BiS anymore (depending on class and preferences). Having alternative means of getting any gear is never a bad idea, as long as the work required is also balanced with the time spent. Imagine you're a fresh 50, and you have a choice of either working up to final coil T13 and beating it or playing casually and grinding for days, even months, and getting a weapon of the same item level? You have the quick and hard way, or the long, slow, easy way. The only downside to the T13 weapons now is that they aren't able to be customized, so their versatility and applications are limited by set stats. Guarantee you, no one would be complaining, or at least far less would, if the current relics still had their set stats, or if the coil weapons and the bought weapons had the same feature. It's just a bunch of people who feel the need to run around Mor Dhona waving around their weapon or armor in front of everyone else because it arouses them to look down on others. They liked the fact the weapons had a higher item level than the relics because to them, casual gamers shouldn't be allowed to even spit shine their new shiney boots. It's all a case of e-peen.

And before anyone starts to call me a dirty casual, I am in a Final Coil raiding static too, and I am quite alright with someone else being able to spend more time than I have to in order to get equivalent gear. It isn't about the item level, or the stats, or pro versus casual gamer, and it shouldn't even be about a badge of honor. Instead, it should be about how you want to play the game. Just because they can get an equivalent weapon doesn't mean that your effort is any less valued, and assuming that what so many people think is a value being put on their skill as a player need to get a reality check. For one, I can't tell you how many players I've seen in full dreadwyrm gear go into a casual dungeon and screw up a boss fight, and how many players I've seen in only soldiery come into the same dungeon and exceed my expectations. Just because you can learn a few, in the scheme of how MMO fights go, simplistic fights doesn't make you Billy Badass. You can still be a total newb putz if you don't study before hand or have previous knowledge of a fight. So if it's just a status symbol, then that it needs to be, and that it still is. Nothing of value was lost with the addition another step in the relic line except for your ability to get off on your superiority complex, get over it. If beating the fights and getting to experience the story isn't enough for you, I suggest finding a new hobby, because this one is going to continue to disappoint you.