Stealth Job

I was wondering if someone else is feeling the lack of a true stealth user class/job. Rogue in some way can play stealthish but when you become ninja you do not use any stealth anymore. So i was wondering, calling Thief or Rogue or whatever (name doesnt matter), am i the only one that feels that Rogue and Ninja should be different jobs?

I'm just not sure what a stealth job would accomplish. This game doesn't really give you situations where stealth would be more useful than just brute force. Even with Rogue being able to use Hide, I never found an actual use for it.

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Originally Posted by Noelzzz

I was wondering if someone else is feeling the lack of a true stealth user class/job. Rogue in some way can play stealthish but when you become ninja you do not use any stealth anymore. So i was wondering, calling Thief or Rogue or whatever (name doesnt matter), am i the only one that feels that Rogue and Ninja should be different jobs?

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SE destroyed any chance of having a thief class. Rogues have mug. In a way, rogues are thiefs. They also said classes and jobs are guilds from a city and it would make no sense a city would have a guild of thieves.

:[ I don't know why it double posted.

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Originally Posted by Darkstride

I'm just not sure what a stealth job would accomplish. This game doesn't really give you situations where stealth would be more useful than just brute force. Even with Rogue being able to use Hide, I never found an actual use for it.

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I meant a stealth mechanics, like in other games where you use vanish or stealth and backstab or do something you can do only while in that stance. Other than that it could be a solution for those who will always have trouble with mudras.

To Aikaal: I know SE said that, and rogue has a thief skill set but i think a double job would be a perfect fit here, better than Summoner and Scholar actually. Thief as a job will have the job teacher (or i dont know how is called lol) and wont stay inside a city.

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Originally Posted by Noelzzz

I meant a stealth mechanics, like in other games where you use vanish or stealth and backstab or do something you can do only while in that stance. Other than that it could be a solution for those who will always have trouble with mudras.

To Aikaal: I know SE said that, and rogue has a thief skill set but i think a double job would be a perfect fit here, better than Summoner and Scholar actually. Thief as a job will have the job teacher (or i dont know how is called lol) and wont stay inside a city.

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I still don't see how that differs enough from Rogue/Ninja. Trick Attack is a backstabbing that requires either Hide or Suiton to use. Sneak Attack is also a "stealth" attack. Do you just want more "invisible" moves for the visual flavor?

What additional abilities would Thief bring that don't already exist and would work within the structure of the game?

I do not feel the need for a stealth class to be completely honest. Final fantasy has had many rogue/thief style characters, but full on stealth has never been featured. At least not in FF7-10, FF12, FF13. Plus, stealth classes are usually very poorly done because it is really hard to balance stealth from a PvP perspective. And no one cares about stealth from a PvE perspective.

what would a stealth class accomplish really?
Maybe it would be better in PVP?
I like Rogue/Nin as it is tbh

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Originally Posted by Darkstride

I still don't see how that differs enough from Rogue/Ninja. Trick Attack is a backstabbing that requires either Hide or Suiton to use. Sneak Attack is also a "stealth" attack. Do you just want more "invisible" moves for the visual flavor?

What additional abilities would Thief bring that don't already exist and would work within the structure of the game?

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It will be just a different way to play the rogue base class, without using mudras and focusing on stealth to use the steal command. For example:

Thief from Rogue 30 and Archer 15

lv 30 Cloak and daggers: Rear attack, you gain vanish for 10 secs, potency 150 (?)

lv 35 Steal speed: Must be in vanish. Rear, you gain a buff in attack speed (same as huton). 200

lv 40 Steal TP: Must be in vanish. Rear, you steal TP from the mob (25% of total damage done) 200

lv 45 Shadow path: Rushes targets and stun 100

lv 50 Backstab: Rear, 100% crit, must be under vanish status 300

reads like you just quit playing your wow rogue

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Originally Posted by Spoekes

reads like you just quit playing your wow rogue

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Did not play WoW actually, why you say that?

Because it reads like the basic skillset of wow rogue, Backstab i.e is the exact name of one ability iirc.
Didn't play for years though so might be different now.

No offense meant, there are many ppl that want a wow like rogue class.

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Originally Posted by Spoekes

Because it reads like the basic skillset of wow rogue, Backstab i.e is the exact name of one ability iirc.
Didn't play for years though so might be different now.

No offense meant, there are many ppl that want a wow like rogue class.

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Well, even if i didn't play wow, i think it has the best classes design ever done in a mmo so i wont be surprised of that

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Originally Posted by Noelzzz

It will be just a different way to play the rogue base class, without using mudras and focusing on stealth to use the steal command.

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Still, the "stealth" aspect isn't accomplishing anything gameplay-wise. It seems like you just want to be invisible to feel stealthy. The abilities you suggested aren't anything that Rogue/Ninja couldn't adopt. We already have "vanish" in the form of Hide and Suiton and Sneak Attack/Trick Attack that require you to be under one of those effects.

For it to be a separate job, it would really need to be more unique than that, in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Darkstride

Still, the "stealth" aspect isn't accomplishing anything gameplay-wise. It seems like you just want to be invisible to feel stealthy. The abilities you suggested aren't anything that Rogue/Ninja couldn't adopt. We already have "vanish" in the form of Hide and Suiton and Sneak Attack/Trick Attack that require you to be under one of those effects.

For it to be a separate job, it would really need to be more unique than that, in my opinion.

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For it to be a separate job, it needs to be separate from rogue, not an extension of it. If you just make it a secondary job, it wouldn't play that much different than ninja.

I think it would be nice if ninjas were simply allowed to start each boss fight in the game from stealth. I think it's kind of lame they don't even allow that.

Until topography, AI, and an actual threat of death affect how one attacks a camp/pack of mobs, stealth will be mostly pointless even in non-raid PvE settings. It's then additionally hard to balance in PvP, and basically useless in raiding. In raiding, at best it acts as a different mode, unlocking abilities for a number of use or a certain duration, of little more variety than Greased Lightning, Mudras, or Cleric Stance. Admittedly, I wouldn't mind seeing an actual stealth class, be it Thief or Assassin (somehow differing from Ninja, hopefully more than *just* the replacement for Ninjutsu), but there's just a lot more jobs (each more different than what we have now) that I'd like to see sooner.

That said, I'd love it if Ninja stealth speed were increased generally (to say 66% of base movement speed, instead of... I think they're 50% right now(?), further passively outside of PvP zones (to, say, 75%), and even further after having just killed something (~90%). The actual detection range reduction is pretty low anyways, and it's so slow that one would often kill the enemy quicker by just opening with Throwing Daggers rather than stopping 8-12 yalms early and opening with Sneak Attack, especially pre-trait-buff.

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Originally Posted by Noelzzz

Well, even if i didn't play wow, i think it has the best classes design ever done in a mmo so i wont be surprised of that

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Even in WoW, stealth was hardly ever an aspect in the PvE scene. What defined a rogue in that game was the use of combo points for finishers, applying poison to weapons, and hard positional requirements (it was required to be in that position to even use the skill, rather than bonus damage), as well as the use of an energy bar rather than mana or rage.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

For it to be a separate job, it needs to be separate from rogue, not an extension of it. If you just make it a secondary job, it wouldn't play that much different than ninja.

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Even as a separate job, I don't think it would have enough to distinguish it very much from Rogue. Anything that this new stealth role could potentially have is something that would likely fit in nicely with Rogue's skillset anyway. Either way I don't think an entirely new "stealth" job is necessary.

In blade and soul stealth class can attack few sec during stealth but that would probably be too op in this game pvp wise. Maybe they do that in some kind of expansion but every class will need more utility in pvp in that case.