Dear All Bards,

Foe's Requiem. Use it.
Battle Voice. Use it.

It makes me die a little bit on the inside whenever I go into WoD/ST/CT and not a single one of the eight bards in the alliance wants to play Foe's. Come on, guys.

Those damned spoony bards.

A bard, actually using a song? Surely, you jest.

On a more serious note, bards that don't play foes even without a black mage are only making their own dps lower. Sure, it's not going to make or break an encounter, but several bard skills have an elemental aspect to them, so foes will up bard dps slightly, and it's based off mp, and bards always need mp, right? Bards that don't play foes even for themselves, or when there are several bards, really just kind of confuse me.

I p much always start a boss battle with my macro'd Foe + Battle voice.

In fact, I ran into a problem today during WoD.... me and the other bard ACTUALLY tried to cast Foe's at the same time :O
That never happens, sometimes (usually) I'm the only one singing.........

Foe's only affects magic, they changed the description from elemental damage to magical so it would be clearer.
I always play foe's in the 24 person raids

In WoD i think the reason they don't use foe's is because it doesn't increase their own dps and they don't really care about other peoples dps, and they don't want to spend those 3 seconds casting it when they could be hitting another button that contributes to their own damage.

Now say if it effect their windbite or venomous bite then a lot more of them would use it.

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Originally Posted by monochromicorn

A bard, actually using a song? Surely, you jest.

On a more serious note, bards that don't play foes even without a black mage are only making their own dps lower. Sure, it's not going to make or break an encounter, but several bard skills have an elemental aspect to them, so foes will up bard dps slightly, and it's based off mp, and bards always need mp, right? Bards that don't play foes even for themselves, or when there are several bards, really just kind of confuse me.

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foes has no effect on any bard skills the elemental ones count as physical even theough they seem like they should be elemental.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

In WoD i think the reason they don't use foe's is because it doesn't increase their own dps and they don't really care about other peoples dps, and they don't want to spend those 3 seconds casting it when they could be hitting another button that contributes to their own damage.

No say if it effect their windbite or venomous bite then a lot more of them would use it.

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Doesn't mean they shouldn't use it.

That 20% damage increase for the 10 or so casters > Throwing in one extra wind bite.

They're usually busy funnelling all of their not BV cooldowns on blasting one mob and tearing it away from the aoe attacks.

If I don't sing foe in the beginning I usually get messed up with when to sing paeon .-.
Yes, I am one of the bards who sing paeon for me, the tanks and melee.

Edit: I actually remember asking the bards if anyone had foe on their bar, and I was told to "stfu" and "if you need foe that badly to be top dps you need to l2p" . Funny thing is I was top dps, but that doesn't really matter. It made for a very heated argument in alliance chat.

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Originally Posted by TheWaywardWind

Foe's Requiem. Use it.
Battle Voice. Use it.

It makes me die a little bit on the inside whenever I go into WoD/ST/CT and not a single one of the eight bards in the alliance wants to play Foe's. Come on, guys.

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Coming from a Bard:

Agreed. We can argue all day about the 20% penalty on AP and MB and when it's appropriate to use or not...but FFS why not use FR?

If I'm not using foe on trash pulls in 24man content, it's because I'm being lazy. Same reason I don't goad the war who is overpower spamming the adds, same reason I'm not holy bombing as WHM, same reason I'm not putting on my STR accessories on War and optimizing my tank rotation. At a certain point, I'll do the bare minimum (without holding the group back) because that's all I need to do, simple as that.

On another note, I always try on bosses. There are too many variables for me to not act my 100%.

I usually tend to see what my party consists of when I enter a dungeon. If there are far more melee then I'll use Paeon.
If there are more mages I'll use Foe's.
Obviously, if its needed Ballad takes priority in this.

The only time I wont play songs is if my party starts barking orders at me over which one to play.

As an added note, not enough BRDs seem to realize that if there are NINs in a party but no BLMs/SMNs, you should still be singing FR. It affects most of their ninjutsu actions! (Save for Shuriken, Doton, and Huton.)

I never play Paeon.... it's too much hassle, please add the TP bar in Party List, squeenix.

Also since sucking up and playing LNC to get Invigorate (i really don't like lancer sooo) I've never needed Paeon for myself, so. Yep.
I try to be nice to healers and play Ballad for them because honestly the WHM MP > my own DPS especially if it could mean the difference between dying because of no cure and maybe doing like minimal liittle less damage to make sure that doesnt happen..............

Pretty sure FOE's will only effect those in your party. By no means am I giving an excuse to not play it because I do, but pretty sure about what I said.

Also ... lol

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Originally Posted by Reokudo

Those damned spoony bards.

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my bard's name is spoony bard lol

It would be cool if the buff icons would change depending on battle voice being active or not. Maybe a gold border to indicate the doubled effect. In 24 man content, I often see foe requiem up on the boss, but I have no idea which bards are playing (if not in my alliance), and I can't tell if they are using battle voice unless I target each player to see their buffs.

I'll use Foe + Battle Voice if the buff isn't already on the boss, and it's a good part of the fight (when the boss teleports back into battle and won't disappear for another 30 seconds), but I never want to waste a 5 minute cooldown if I'm not sure someone else might be using theirs.

I try to go NIN now. I see almost the whole alliance DPS full of BRD DPS. I simply spam Trick Attack for those long fights.

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Originally Posted by dice137

As an added note, not enough BRDs seem to realize that if there are NINs in a party but no BLMs/SMNs, you should still be singing FR. It affects most of their ninjutsu actions! (Save for Shuriken, Doton, and Huton.)

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Spending 3 seconds to sing a 20% damage buff added on to a 360 potency ability that is only used once (possibly twice) every minute isn't exactly a top priority. This is coming from a ninja so I'm not trying justify being a lazy bard.

I'm a new bard so I have some quick questions.

1. Does Paeons/Ballad stack? [IE. 2 bards using it.]
So far I've been switching back and forth with the other bard if they play.
2. Does FoE ONLY work on YOUR party? Or everyone in the raid? [IE. CT]

That said, I always sing when need be.
Also, use Battle voice, please.

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Originally Posted by Elkya95

1 songs don't stack.
2 it affects the enemy, not party members, so everyone gets the effect of foe.

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Thank you!

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Originally Posted by Mugiawara

I'm a new bard so I have some quick questions.

1. Does Paeons/Ballad stack? [IE. 2 bards using it.]
So far I've been switching back and forth with the other bard if they play.
2. Does FoE ONLY work on YOUR party? Or everyone in the raid? [IE. CT]

That said, I always sing when need be.
Also, use Battle voice, please.

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1 songs don't stack.
2 it affects the enemy, not party members, so everyone gets the effect of foe.

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Originally Posted by TheWaywardWind

Foe's Requiem. Use it.
Battle Voice. Use it.

It makes me die a little bit on the inside whenever I go into WoD/ST/CT and not a single one of the eight bards in the alliance wants to play Foe's. Come on, guys.

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Foe Requiem Price: Commendations plz. :)

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Originally Posted by Laughlyn

Foe Requiem Price: Commendations plz. :)

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That irks me so bad, you have no idea.

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Originally Posted by SinisterJointss

Pretty sure FOE's will only effect those in your party. By no means am I giving an excuse to not play it because I do, but pretty sure about what I said.

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You're too sure because you are wrong. How have you not noticed yet that it's a debuff on the boss, never accidentally pulled with foes?

I love bards that play Foe's. Especially with Battle Voice.

If you're not in a situation where your MP/TP songs are ever going to matter, your 3 seconds to cast Foe's is going to add way more damage to your allies than you will lose in that 3 seconds.

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Originally Posted by monochromicorn

On a more serious note, bards that don't play foes even without a black mage are only making their own dps lower. Sure, it's not going to make or break an encounter, but several bard skills have an elemental aspect to them, so foes will up bard dps slightly, and it's based off mp, and bards always need mp, right? Bards that don't play foes even for themselves, or when there are several bards, really just kind of confuse me.

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So about that, I'll just provide you with incite on why I think it happens a lot. I'd like to point out beforehand though that BRD should sing, and often... though trash in most raids is usually meh due to the speed that things tend to die. It's pretty simple. Let's start from the role outlook and spell/ability.

Firstly, as a DPS role, your primary function is to attack... no other way to look at it. So people tend to get into that mindset simply by being a DPS role. Start your attack at the beginning, and any sort of buffs are generally either instant or prepped before the fight (which sort of leads into the next).

Second, and probably biggest reason, are the faults of FR. We're taught (either by others or our own curiosity) early on that FR is bad to use when we first get it and on. It pulls mobs, meaning you might have accidentally wiped your group or pulled a boss too early, so you tend to not keep that thing cast much at all. Then there's the fact that it has a somewhat long cast, and for a class that has no cast time for things (besides songs), it's a rather foreign concept and seen as more of a burden than otherwise. Not exactly the best outlook, but it's pretty easy to see why people might think that.

Among other things, SE just did a rather sloppy job at making songs an important part of rotation. Then again, they also designed content with the idea that not all groups will have a BRD. Honestly, it's an implementation thing as to why it's not seen as all-around important, though truthfully, it isn't. It's just a matter of taking advantage of things, similar to DPSing as a healer when you can.

As for voice though, it's really an iffy subject on that. If it weren't on a 5min cooldown, you'd probably see more use of it. I tend to not use it too much, depending on the group, as I've come across MANY situations where I needed to use voice + ballad... especially in places like CT/ST/WoD.

You know what's worse? BRD who focus solely on maximizing their own DPS and not caring about playing songs because "I'm a DPS, learn to manage your own mana"

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Originally Posted by myahele

You know what's worse? BRD who focus solely on maximizing their own DPS and not caring about playing songs because "I'm a DPS, learn to manage your own mana"

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Exactly. A large part of Bard is support. Why ignore it?

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Originally Posted by AskaRay

I p much always start a boss battle with my macro'd Foe + Battle voice.

In fact, I ran into a problem today during WoD.... me and the other bard ACTUALLY tried to cast Foe's at the same time :O
That never happens, sometimes (usually) I'm the only one singing.........

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Now that I've sort of been forced to main Bard, lately.... (injured hand + WHMing is a little more difficult)
Pretty much same as AskaRay, except I don't have them macro'd. I'm always singing, when on Bard. I usually end up being the only one out of a whole raid >_> but occasionally surprised when I see Foes already on when I start singing it. *Stepcancel*
I tend to save Battle Voice for emergencies, though... (like shit hitting fans and healers needing MP badly) or situations like Odin trial.

But yeah. >_> I've also been in raids where there are tons of bards and yet I'm the only one singing. I'm usually inwardly flipping tables at the irony.
Once my mp depletes, no one picks up the singing and it stays down until I feel my mp's come back to a point of usefulness (and not singing something else).

I think the most interesting multi-bard raid setup I've seen was my playing Foes.... then the other bard playing Ballad (while no one needed mp) all during/at the same time. It felt like my Foes was up for quite a while due to ballad's regen, but I'm not 100% sure if it actually effected while both played at the same time. I haven't mimic'd this, though, as I don't know if it's considered more effective or not for that setup - vs Playing Foes till mp end, and the other bard picking up where the other left off/about to stop.

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Originally Posted by Ryans

Spending 3 seconds to sing a 20% damage buff added on to a 360 potency ability that is only used once (possibly twice) every minute isn't exactly a top priority. This is coming from a ninja so I'm not trying justify being a lazy bard.

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I didn't mean to suggest that it should be at the top of the priority list, just that it's something to keep in mind. A surprising amount of BRDs simply aren't aware that Foe's Req isn't a BLM/SMN exclusive buff.

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Originally Posted by monochromicorn

A bard, actually using a song? Surely, you jest.

On a more serious note, bards that don't play foes even without a black mage are only making their own dps lower. Sure, it's not going to make or break an encounter, but several bard skills have an elemental aspect to them, so foes will up bard dps slightly, and it's based off mp, and bards always need mp, right? Bards that don't play foes even for themselves, or when there are several bards, really just kind of confuse me.

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Bards do not use magic damage. Foe's enhances magic damage. The following classes deal magic damage:
Black Mage
Summoner
White Mage
Scholar
Ninja

The following classes do NOT use magic damage:
Bard
Monk
Dragoon
Warrior
Paladin

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Originally Posted by Saseal

I think the most interesting multi-bard raid setup I've seen was my playing Foes.... then the other bard playing Ballad (while no one needed mp) all during/at the same time. It felt like my Foes was up for quite a while due to ballad's regen, but I'm not 100% sure if it actually effected while both played at the same time. I haven't mimic'd this, though, as I don't know if it's considered more effective or not for that setup - vs Playing Foes till mp end, and the other bard picking up where the other left off/about to stop.

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Ballad definitely affects you while you're playing Foe's. I've seen it happen.
I mean, I'm not sure if it's WORTH IT.... maybe if everyone else is spewing magic left and right, but Foe's definitely lasts at least twice as long, if not longer, with another's Ballad running.

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Originally Posted by AskaRay

Ballad definitely affects you while you're playing Foe's. I've seen it happen.
I mean, I'm not sure if it's WORTH IT.... maybe if everyone else is spewing magic left and right, but Foe's definitely lasts at least twice as long, if not longer, with another's Ballad running.

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Okay, then I'm not crazy in thinking it seemed a hell of a lot longer xD;
I'm not sure either, considering Balled does take DPS down quite a notch.... but could also counter in that it keeps magey DPS higher for longer duration..... o_oa
I can't tell if it would be a somewhat even tradeoff (or more), or if just ending up with less overall party DPS output than if just trading on/off Foes...

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Originally Posted by TheWaywardWind

Foe's Requiem. Use it.
Battle Voice. Use it.

It makes me die a little bit on the inside whenever I go into WoD/ST/CT and not a single one of the eight bards in the alliance wants to play Foe's. Come on, guys.

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Am bard, can confirm, give 0 care about WoD in particular, I'm there for my bard body, all I will do is spam straight shot and heavy shot until second boss and then leave when my body doesn't drop. Why? because the fight isn't difficult enough for me to care enough to use foes and or try in general. On the plus side, I won't die :)!

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Originally Posted by TheWaywardWind

That irks me so bad, you have no idea.

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Dont worry, XD meant no offense or anything.

I do play most songs depending on the situation.
But a commendation now & then would be nice & much appreciated.

Besides, the black mages seems to love foe req, and i kinda enjoy the explosions that follows.

This issue has annoyed me for so long.

I HATE bards that play it as a pure dps.
Dont get me wrong, brd can kick out some good dps and every little helps.
I often ask brds in wod why they have not spent an mp for the entire run, and they sometimes reply "Cus it effects my dps, dont be stupid".

If you want to top the dps charts and not sing please play mnk/drg/nin.
2-3 (decent)casters in your party, with foe will do much more dmg than a brd ever will, increasing overall dps and faster clears.
Focusing on your personal dps is very selfish, and you are slowing down the run - just please leave.

I have had a brd brag he did more dps than me (also on brd), yet I was keeping up foe/ballad/peon while he never sang anything... I think some brds just dont get it.
Brd is support role, please support your team mates, and not your ego.

I cannot wait for Machinist, I hope all the non-song brds will play that instead, assuming its a mobile range pure dps

Playing Foes in WoD...Really? WoD is an extremely easy place to clear, if have plenty of casters playing Foes might clear the place a few minutes quicker but that's about all really. It is not needed, it is not required and you will clear it with or without in my experience so quit whining about not clearing it a few minutes sooner or downing that boss a minute quicker.

If you need it then you can have it but if you do not then quit whining. It is not like high end coils where having such could make or break a training group attempt. Foes serves one purpose which is to help clear quicker, MP regen is more important often because it can save a raid if have bad healers or bad group getting themselves killed a lot, so I am more willing to play MP regen than Foes in WoD but even then it is VERY rare that even that is needed in WoD.

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Originally Posted by TheWaywardWind

Exactly. A large part of Bard is support. Why ignore it?

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Because SE threw in a hybrid that people don't wanna deal with.
At first, I thought I'd HATE bard, but it's actually really fun to me. I can DPS a bit and Support,
I've been supporting in MMO's for years so I get a bit of both with less worries of a healer.
I get so sad when there's no reason to sing...I WANT A HEALER OR TANK TO DIE! +___+
-Watches WHM MP go down.; Yes...keep overhealing you fool!!! XDDD
It's hard for me to know when they're low on TP though, I don't have any other high level'd
DPS to get a feel if they could be low. :/

As a bard, I tend to use my songs as a "oh shit, someone is almost out of resources" button over using foe. If the healer is < 50% mp, time to help out the healer. If I'm almost out of TP, I make the assumption that some of the other TP using classes are probably at least getting low, so it's time to use peon.

Having the magic classes deal more damage is great and all, but if I don't have the mana available to keep up the other two songs when needed, it's a larger problem. Healer runs out of mana? People are going to start dying. Classes run out of TP? Their dps plummets.

Doe Foe affect performance of other alliances in a 24 man raid? I know that it is a mob debuff - you can see the icon on the mob's status bar. However, I've NEVER seen that icon on a boss unless I've been the one singing Foe or I know another bard in my alliance has done it. The same thing would apply for DRG's Disembowel debuff.