Why can't 2 alliances votekick a 3rd alliance in 24-mans?

I don't understand how this still isn't a thing. It is too easy for one 8-man group to troll the other 16 people in CT/ST/WoD. This really needs to be fixed in Heavensward, it's already at the point where there's no good reason to waste time and effort doing the weekly CT/ST/WoD because of all the trolling. I just wasted an hour in ST because one group was trolling. I don't want Carboncoat that badly. It's not worth this time wasting.

If they're trolling, report them. If they're inhibiting the progression of players through intentional actions, it's a violation of the terms of service.
Moreover, if they're trolling THAT bad, just vote abandon. People don't seem to use that feature as much as they should for the towers...

You also need only 1 person to troll in Cerberus fight.

It's pretty sad.

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Originally Posted by mosaicex

You also need only 1 person to troll in Cerberus fight.

It's pretty sad.

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On two different parts, too.
1) Healing the chain carriers.
2) dropping the purple stuff in the other purple stuff.

1) Healing the chain carriers.

I don't understand this since I never seen it happened or haven't noticed it before. What does this do?

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Originally Posted by Neri

1) Healing the chain carriers.

I don't understand this since I never seen it happened or haven't noticed it before. What does this do?

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It made the chain carrier drop the ball so they have to run back to get it again. Rinse and repeat until Cerberus wakes up and wipe the group.

Also I should add that this is a dumb mechanic that serves no purpose what-so-ever. If anything it should made it so that chain carrier got a debuff that if they don't use it on Cerberus within 15 seconds they will explode or something.

This prevent both kind of griefing (Use spells on carrier, carrier holding on to the chain and not using it on Cerberus) at the same time.

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Originally Posted by mosaicex

carrier holding on to the chain and not using it on Cerberus

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Or they could be doing it intentionally to not wake him up too fast.

lol hope ur not serious wanting an alliance booted cause mayb 1 or 2 people dont know the routine seriously ._.

vote kick is abused enough already without giving the power to kick a whole allaince its up to the alliance in question to deal with the trolls not the others

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Originally Posted by Wizhard

Or they could be doing it intentionally to not wake him up too fast.

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That's what I did too. And what if they weren't? That's my only idea why SE would ever implement this mechanic in the first place. Too bad they didn't think far ahead enough.

I see, so you drop the chain if you got healed. I could see that this is unintended on se part though. I guess if there's enough feedback to se, they will probably fix it?

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Originally Posted by Neri

I see, so you drop the chain if you got healed. I could see that this is unintended on se part though. I guess if there's enough feedback to se, they will probably fix it?

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i think it's intentional, since this is the only thing i can think of that works like this.

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Originally Posted by Spawnie

lol hope ur not serious wanting an alliance booted cause mayb 1 or 2 people dont know the routine seriously ._.

vote kick is abused enough already without giving the power to kick a whole allaince its up to the alliance in question to deal with the trolls not the others

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Oh it can be serious... had a ST with a french troll group (nothing gainst french ppl but they also spammed Alliance chat with "Baguette gogo" and similiar stuff and sadly I know they are french as same server as me >.< ) they went into Scylla with glamour (lvl 1) gear didnt free iced ppl, got iced in puddles and made puddles vanish... I reported em ALL after 2 wipes and wrote that in alliance chat... suddenly they "knew" the mechanics and did em.

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Originally Posted by Illya

I don't understand how this still isn't a thing. It is too easy for one 8-man group to troll the other 16 people in CT/ST/WoD. This really needs to be fixed in Heavensward, it's already at the point where there's no good reason to waste time and effort doing the weekly CT/ST/WoD because of all the trolling. I just wasted an hour in ST because one group was trolling. I don't want Carboncoat that badly. It's not worth this time wasting.

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Much like the current vote to kick feature. thats creating more vicitims than its benefitting players. An option to kick an entire party would be abused just as much if not more. Voting is not a right, its a responsibility. Majority of players cant differentiate from justified kicking from their own personal agenda.

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Originally Posted by Werhusky

Oh it can be serious... had a ST with a french troll group (nothing gainst french ppl but they also spammed Alliance chat with "Baguette gogo" and similiar stuff and sadly I know they are french as same server as me >.< ) they went into Scylla with glamour (lvl 1) gear didnt free iced ppl, got iced in puddles and made puddles vanish... I reported em ALL after 2 wipes and wrote that in alliance chat... suddenly they "knew" the mechanics and did em.

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was referrin to serious about having n option to kick a whole alliance lol its an online game there will always be trolls having n option to kick a whole aliance when it could only be 1 person at fault is just beggin to be abused like current kick vote system

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lol hope ur not serious wanting an alliance booted cause mayb 1 or 2 people dont know the routine seriously ._.

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No, we're talking about parties with at least 5 people clearly there to troll, with nothing being able to be done about them because not even the non-trolls in that party would be able to vote dismiss them. Yes, they do exist, and yes, they are rather numerous.

I don't necessarily think we should be given the ability to just completely remove a party, because in a lot of cases it's not all 8 of them that are necessarily doing something wrong. But vote dismisses should at the very least work cross-alliance.

yesh vote dismiss may work across alliance but its not fair havin n option to kick the lot when mayb only a few are at fault thats my point lol look at all the topics about people abusing the vote system as it is now will be 5000000x worse if they implement what the OP is asking

People will just click yes with without asking any question when kicking a party member, can you imagine kicking an entire alliance?

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Originally Posted by Neri

1) Healing the chain carriers.

I don't understand this since I never seen it happened or haven't noticed it before. What does this do?

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if anyone heals or buffs the chain carriers it causes them to drop the chain. I noticed it and stopped standing near them cause Eos or Selene was causing them to drop it.

If you don't like how things are running in the raid and people refuse to kick others, just leave. That's easier.

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Originally Posted by dice137

If you don't like how things are running in the raid and people refuse to kick others, just leave. That's easier.

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this ^ problem is people are afraid of the debuff for ditching so they prefer to kick other then leave

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Originally Posted by Spawnie

this ^ problem is people are afraid of the debuff for ditching so they prefer to kick other then leave

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or just afk/dc hoping to be kicked

People would rather to carry an entire alliance of trolls than leave / vote abandon, even if it means that there'll be a lot of issues along the way, forced wipes and general ranting, doubling the time spent in the raid.

I just go AFK when it happens.

I have seen these type of trolling, but lets say 3/8 are trolling, isnt it unfair to kick them all out? From my DF experience most players do not care who they kick out, they will press YES and be done with it. I can see alot of griefing comming out of this suggestion.

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Originally Posted by myahele

or just afk/dc hoping to be kicked

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cant stand afkers in WoD lol if they are silly enough to afk in the boss area ill drag mobs on them everytime lol

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Originally Posted by Spawnie

cant stand afkers in WoD lol if they are silly enough to afk in the boss area ill drag mobs on them everytime lol

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usually they afk before the barrier to the boss or at the start from what I see

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Originally Posted by mosaicex

It made the chain carrier drop the ball so they have to run back to get it again.

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O.o Well, that's something to remember. No AoE heals to get the party's HP up if you're on the Chain team, then. *switches to single heals and hopes none of the actual chain carriers is low on hp*

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Originally Posted by Noxifer

O.o Well, that's something to remember. No AoE heals to get the party's HP up if you're on the Chain team, then. *switches to single heals and hopes none of the actual chain carriers is low on hp*

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It's a bit of a non-issue during that phase since Cerberus is explicitly not doing anything, what with being collapsed from indigestion. And even if they ARE low on HP while carrying the chain, you have time to heal them while cerberus is getting up.


Also I just remembered something about the first time i got trolled in a tower...
It was by people from, wait for it...
Midgardsormr. It was like an omen of things to come in the story, looking back :P

I'd like the option to kick other people from alliances as well. It only takes one person to run into another group's pad to start the fight with Atomos.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

It's a bit of a non-issue during that phase since Cerberus is explicitly not doing anything, what with being collapsed from indigestion. And even if they ARE low on HP while carrying the chain, you have time to heal them while cerberus is getting up.

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Which is very true, but it's still good to know, cos sometimes the aoes happen by reflex if several people are injured ^^


But to return to the topic, I'd like this, too. And to prevent people from abusing it, you could always make it so that the other two parties have to be 100% agreed -- that if even one person clicks no, the vote dismiss gets dismissed.
(Sure, that can be circumvented by trolls going in as two allied full parties, but seriously... in that case the third party is probably better off getting dismissed anyway ^^; )

1. If they're random DF users, you can't kick all 8 people for trolling. some of them may not want to troll.

2. If they are a team of pre-made 8 trolls... what's the point of doing something like that?

not sure if "trolling" is the right word to describe them. it's more like some people are really bad, like i110 tank who can't tank Angra Mainyu or even the first mini-boss room but I don't think they're trolling on purpose. people with high level gears nowadays are just bad and inexperienced because the soldiery tomes have no weekly limit anymore.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

1. If they're random DF users, you can't kick all 8 people for trolling. some of them may not want to troll.

2. If they are a team of pre-made 8 trolls... what's the point of doing something like that?

not sure if "trolling" is the right word to describe them. it's more like some people are really bad, like i110 tank who can't tank Angra Mainyu or even the first mini-boss room but I don't think they're trolling on purpose. people with high level gears nowadays are just bad and inexperienced because the soldiery tomes have no weekly limit anymore.

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1. Very true. But in those cases where it's just one or two holding the entire alliance back on purpose, and they're not part of a majorital pre-formed, I would hope that they eventually get votekicked by their own party.

2. Having fun and avoiding getting votekicked? I dunno. Really, I don't.

And yes, some people are inexperienced or unskilled, and there are moments when you can't tell if it's just that or if they're being obtuse on purpose. But there are also the times when I really wish I could initiate a votekick for that person on the other team who keeps spamming emotes and or shouts/alliance shouts (especially with a gazillion sound effects), or who insists on pulling before even half the people are present, or the people who for the fifth time drags three or more skellies to one platform on bone dragon even after having seen what happens and/or being asked not to do that because of what happens, or the other multitude of easy ways to cause a wipe and/or harass people =/

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Originally Posted by mosaicex

Also I should add that this is a dumb mechanic that serves no purpose what-so-ever.

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From a style and narrative point of view, it's an awesome mechanic! The alliance is leashing the beast! Very cool. It's a shame that it was implemented so poorly.

In addition to deliberate trolling, there's other ways you can screw up a leashing that really shouldn't happen. For instance, when one player attaches a leash, the leash may not necessarily attach to the same side that they clicked. If the other leasher is in the middle of leashing and their attach point disappears (because it became attached to the other leash), their attach point disappears and their attempt is aborted. Add to this the fact that if you abort attaching a leash (intentionally or not), then you lose the leash and need to go collect it again...

You need to be certain to attach the right-hand leash to Cerb's right-hand side and the left-hand leash to the left-hand side to avoid this unexpected flip over. There's nothing in-game that prevents you from attaching the leash to the wrong side.

Awesome mechanic, but way too susceptible to both trolls and plain ol' derp.

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Originally Posted by Wildsprite

usually they afk before the barrier to the boss or at the start from what I see

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yeah thats why i said if thier silly enough to.. you occasionally get some who afk inside tho lol

Should never have the option of vote kicking an entire alliance group. Would be open to abuse punishing all individuals from a group just because one or more are being jerks. I personally have never actually came across an entire alliance group made up of everyone within trolling or being jerks, I have only ever come across the occasional jerk within an alliance or couple of them which tend to get vote kicked as individuals by the rest of the group.

This idea is terrible in my opinion. There have been lots of times I got stuck with a terrible party in these raids that were completely outside of my control. Why should all 8 people be punished for a handful of idiot's mistakes? One step forward.. two steps back. This would only make trolling easier.

Just allow vote-kicking across pts.

So you have 3 pts of 8, 1 or two of them is a troll but others are their friends who refuse to vote kick their buddy no matter how bad his/her trolling is. Allow the majority vote from the other 2 pts to vote-kick that player. Simple, easy. The other pt members want to be jerks for you vote kicking their friends, you can widdle them out one by one and get ppl who want the run, while not punishing the ppl who were actually there for the raid.

And on a side-note, please add a temp-blist option for these runs so the ppl who have walls of text in /sh /s /a and /p for each and every macro, but aren't necessarily trolls, don't have to annoy the rest of us anymore.