The future of crafting and gathering... what can we expect?

With the dificulties that FFXIV has had in the last 12 months I, as a long time fan of the Final Fantasy franchise have been playing the game as it is and looking foward for any and all updates in the game. I might not personally agree with all changes which have taken place but if these make the game viable as an investment for Square Enix and atrack a wider range of players I think I'll take those changes for the overall good of the game and it's future.

Now that most of the main problems in the game have been adressed and a certain ammount of content has been added into the game (I understand we would like some more but so far so good in my opinion) I'm starting to look not just to the overall player but to the niche target which this game seemes to also be aimed at from launch and one which I am part of; the Disciple of the Hand/Land.

Most of of the players will be aware that one of the main draws in FFXIV is the statement that both crafters and gatherers can and will be full classes but some of the newer players might not be aware of the various promisses that were made, some by the old team. Since the fighting in FFXIV is starting to be fleshed out enough to saciate those players I would be looking for some kind of Official response on the future of DoH/Ls in FFXIV.

Since before release the official Final Fantasy XIV web site defines the role of Miners as:

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In addition to their unexcelled prowess at throwing rocks, miners also use their skills to debilitate enemies with mineral composition.

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This and other pieces of information released at the time had people like myself thinking of ways that both DoL and DoH could help fights. Myself I envisioned these classes to be a new kind of buffers and debuffers with DoL improving damage to the whole party against the specific mob family while DoHs like ARM could increase defense to everyone, BSM increase attack and so forth. With the issues the game was experiencing it was axpected that any such possibility would have to wait till the actual fights were enjoyable by the comunity at large so I waited...

But then in Jne of this year an official forum post informed us of the following:

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Q: It was initially claimed that all disciplines (War/Magic/Hand/Land) would be of equal focus in regards to content/gameplay. Is this statement still accurate?
A: It will still be possible to enjoy the game just as a gatherer, but the battle content and main scenarios to be added will make it necessary to obtain ranks and skills/actions for battle-related classes.

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I might very well be wrong but it now seems that any chance there might have been in the past of crafters and gatherers of joining fighting classes in a meaningful way has been completly removed from the game. Since that appears to no longer an option we can now only expect to have content dedicated to DoH/Ls as engaging and as varied as the one in existance to DoW/M.

The new Materia and "Colorant" systems seem to be a step in the right direction alowing more involving crafting which will make it more engaging but on the other hand the simplicity in obtaining HQ items just appears (to me) to be counter producing. Overall I would be looking for a clear statement from Yoshi or the team whether we can expect Disciples of the Hand and Land to be considered as independent, engaging and stand alone classes or should we just get ready to have these as support skills for real classes like on every other game available?

I would also like to take this time to bring something to everyone's attention, on the latest post about crafting the following was written:

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We plan on sharpening this from Rank 50 on with the implementation of ingredients that can only be gathered by miners with STR 100+, ingredients that can only be gathered by miners with VIT 125+, armor that can only be created by armorers with DEX 115+

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Acording to Ask the Devs! (11/5/2010) the stats associated to Mining are Strength and Mind while the ones associated to Armourer are Vitality and Strength. Are we to assume that this information is no longer valid and has since been changed or do the examples given today not reflect the actual stats and should only be taken as examples?

Crafting changes look terrible to me. That makes me sad cause I really enjoy R50 crafting as it is now.

Crafting may look terrible but remember how long it took to make one body, and I know other's liked the realism and there are cons to it. Some say Yoshi p is making us look like children dumbing down the crafting system, while other's are happy, the ones who are complaining are probably 50+ crafter's with multiple at 50, in reality this change should not bother them at all, it is just a game after all, and there is nothing hardcore about crafting, I am uncertain about the gathering changes, and I am one.

This is no longer the game that was released in September. It's been pointed out in other threads that "You asked for drastic changes in game when the polls were up". Nothing that was promised at release can be held to the current dev team.

Gatherers will go back to being support (not that there's anything wrong with that) but they will have "end game" content. As in, higher level gear and mats that can only be collected from high level areas. Crafters will be (maybe) able to "master" one craft and will be able to use "Forbidden Recipes" to make gear. And of course, make repairs.

The name Final Fantasy might have atracted me to this game but it is the crafting (as it's own independent class) along with my Linkshell that keep me in it. If they gonna make this as any other game in which crafting is just a support skill then they will need to make the rest of the game much more appealing than it is today for me to stay after they start charging.

I know it was a different team but we were promissed independent classes with all that it entails, we were hinted at presence in fighting content (as DoH/L) which I don't see happening.. how much change will we accept till this just becomes the same old crafting systems?

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

This is no longer the game that was released in September. It's been pointed out in other threads that "You asked for drastic changes in game when the polls were up". Nothing that was promised at release can be held to the current dev team.

Gatherers will go back to being support (not that there's anything wrong with that) but they will have "end game" content. As in, higher level gear and mats that can only be collected from high level areas. Crafters will be (maybe) able to "master" one craft and will be able to use "Forbidden Recipes" to make gear. And of course, make repairs.

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I wonder which craft i'd have at master, I am not even certain the craft I have which is almost 50 will be my master craft, but it may go that way, with me having miner.

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Originally Posted by Hugus

The name Final Fantasy might have atracted me to this game but it is the crafting (as it's own independent class) along with my Linkshell that keep me in it. If they gonna make this as any other game in which crafting is just a support skill then they will need to make the rest of the game much more appealing than it is today for me to stay after they start charging.

I know it was a different team but we were promissed independent classes with all that it entails, we were hinted at presence in fighting content (as DoH/L) which I don't see happening.. how much change will we accept till this just becomes the same old crafting systems?

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Yeah on the main site official page the dol/doh were going to be able to fight, but of course it was scrapped, and I mean it in the way that even the old team did not implement it, so I doubt the new team would also, either that or the old team was not done with the other stuff to add battle elements to them such as support.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

This is no longer the game that was released in September. It's been pointed out in other threads that "You asked for drastic changes in game when the polls were up". Nothing that was promised at release can be held to the current dev team.

Gatherers will go back to being support (not that there's anything wrong with that) but they will have "end game" content. As in, higher level gear and mats that can only be collected from high level areas. Crafters will be (maybe) able to "master" one craft and will be able to use "Forbidden Recipes" to make gear. And of course, make repairs.

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I'm sorry but saying that gatherers will be able to gather and crafters will be able to craft is not quite the "content" I would be expecting from an independant class, that would be the same as saying that fighters will have monsters to fight which they do already.

I'm looking to get is a definite answer from Square Enix whether FFXIV is a game in which crafters are independant classes or will just be like any other game in the market, support skills?

I dunno Etienn. ^^ I'm kinda leaning toward "Master Chef" personally. =D I hope that Culinarians and Food get some major overhauls like the rest of the crafting/item arrangements. I'm a botanist at heart and Cul and BTN appear to have been made with each other in mind.

EDIT: in response to Hugus's latest post, there have been many good ideas posted to the forums about how useful Crafter/Gathering can be in a Battle. For example, a Crafter could build a boat, used only by fishers who could paddle a party of DoW/DoM to an island where they can fight mobs for special rewards for all involved.

However, even if such content were on the drawing board, they appear to be too far in the future to see, so I don't know if you'll get much of a dev response.

Not sure what the DoH/L end game content will be like but I think it was stated that they will have their own goal for end-game. They just won't see the main battle story, and for obvious reason it make sense. If you chose to be a crafter, then you should not be expected to go fighting endgame bosses, or for the love of the twelve go parley with bosses.

They can make a lot of interesting endgame related content for the DoH/L so that people who enjoy this type of class/gameplay might enjoy. Yes they will be support classes, because they support battle classes in their trade but doesn't mean that support isn't vital. I play a battle class mainly but I hope they come out with support battle classes because that is the gameplay I prefer. Does it mean that I am less important than another type of battle class? no, I just provide my help in another fashion.

Think of DoH/L in the same way.

I actually do Perrin, in the old days (lol) which there was a chance that DoH/Ls would be involved in fighting I expected them to be the new support jobs, like BRd in FFXI to a certain degree in which it doesnt really do damage (of worth) but improved the other party members.

I have since gave up on that happening although I would have loved it but it seems to me that the economic or city living side of the game is being simplified, the change to some recepies I can understand, the removal of the treatesis and sub crafts I'm completelly againt, the inclusion of Materia and colorant I look foward to but the change to HQing synths is just atrocious.

If you will only be able to make HQ items from HQ mats then what is the difference from having a new recepy with new, harder to get mats which will get a new result item with better stats than the original one...

also the way HQ is applied to items should also be changed, HQ should inpact in any and all stats present on item, no only defense, magic defence, evasion... (in gear), to balance things out the detioration in gear should also impact all those same stats.

As mainly a crafter I have not repared crating, gathering gear in months simply because it has no impact on those activities (with the exception of tools ofc).

I can't say I'd ever go to battle as a DoH/L even if the option was there.

i would say leave the World saving and moster killing to DOW and DOM

DOL and DOH have to play another game called economics.

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Originally Posted by Hugus

I actually do Perrin, in the old days (lol) which there was a chance that DoH/Ls would be involved in fighting I expected them to be the new support jobs, like BRd in FFXI to a certain degree in which it doesnt really do damage (of worth) but improved the other party members.

I have since gave up on that happening although I would have loved it but it seems to me that the economic or city living side of the game is being simplified, the change to some recepies I can understand, the removal of the treatesis and sub crafts I'm completelly againt, the inclusion of Materia and colorant I look foward to but the change to HQing synths is just atrocious.

If you will only be able to make HQ items from HQ mats then what is the difference from having a new recepy with new, harder to get mats which will get a new result item with better stats than the original one...

also the way HQ is applied to items should also be changed, HQ should inpact in any and all stats present on item, no only defense, magic defence, evasion... (in gear), to balance things out the detioration in gear should also impact all those same stats.

As mainly a crafter I have not repared crating, gathering gear in months simply because it has no impact on those activities (with the exception of tools ofc).

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While I understand your points and concerns, I think it is too early to cry wolf. The announced HQ system seems a lot better in my opinion than the current highly frustrating random HQ. The rarity of the HQ mats will be such as making a HQ item will still be something to be praised and their value will still be high.

I do believe that the stats overhaul will also take care of HQ items only be worth for defense so that HQ items are better in all stats over the NQ version of it.

Also, It would be silly to have DoH/L participate in battle in a "bard" type of support.. whirl your saw to give a str buff to the party? On top of it's not fair to level a crafting job and be able to be a battle support (like bard) and yet be able to craft and make tons of gils. Why would they make support jobs like bard, time mage, dancers and such.

DoH/L can still be part of the grand schemes and they will probably have related end-game missions to do, just not participate in battles. They could even have them participate in dungeons where things need to be fixed while DoM/W defends them, it could still be done even with this new concept for them, just leave them out of the actual fighting and we are good.

But let's face the truth. Crafters are supposed to be city dwellers. They deal in trades. They can have crafting oriented and trade oriented content, I know there is a thread about it that has awsome ideas of what type of end-game and general content there could be for crafters.

Hugus:

Treatises and Support will have alternate Uses after the patch, they won't be done away with, so no worries there. I think HQ will be replaced with Mastercrafting, Materia crafting and Forbidden recipes. You can still HQ things to make them better, but HQ won't be the only focus.

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Originally Posted by Etienn

Crafting may look terrible but remember how long it took to make one body, and I know other's liked the realism and there are cons to it. Some say Yoshi p is making us look like children dumbing down the crafting system, while other's are happy, the ones who are complaining are probably 50+ crafter's with multiple at 50, in reality this change should not bother them at all, it is just a game after all, and there is nothing hardcore about crafting, I am uncertain about the gathering changes, and I am one.

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i have 7 50 crafts and it doesnt bother me at all
i have a few concerns, but those are far fewer then the things i like that im seeing

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Hugus:

Treatises and Support will have alternate Uses after the patch, they won't be done away with, so no worries there. I think HQ will be replaced with Mastercrafting, Materia crafting and Forbidden recipes. You can still HQ things to make them better, but HQ won't be the only focus.

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yes, they will have uses in the future. in january we were told we would get basic ls options in the future also....still waiting. they will not have use after the patch. they stated in the future they will have meaning again.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

yes, they will have uses in the future. in january we were told we would get basic ls options in the future also....still waiting. they will not have use after the patch. they stated in the future they will have meaning again.

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The information they provided at the time is that both Treatesis and Sub-Crafts would take influence in making HQ items but with this new information I'm tempted to agree with you...

Here is the post about some end-game/general content for crafters/gatherers.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...s-What-we-want