Xeno's FCoB DPS Techniques

Greetings Friends!

I made some new videos that might help improve Warrior dps for MT and OT. :D

Turn 10: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvlS5krOrZM

Turn 11: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCWz4HkQioc

Turn 12: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhcIWDZEk-k

Turn 13: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqgpxqqmkLA

Anything from your pld on the same subject? Thanks for awesome guides

I feel like this guide is only fully geared groups? Like...you're using your fully decked warrior for the videos, along with dps party members that are at least just as geared as you and therefore the dps pacing, phase change speed and timing are based on that? My group is technically on t10-12 farm but we are still collecting twines for weapon upgrades and learning t13 and our main stat totals are obviously lesser than your group. Even if my group and your group 'skills' are the same (obviously not), gear alone would make the flow of our fights different. I can't say that with my i125 warrior with no melded and only i120 weapon be able to say...like in your t10 video, run forward to chase the wild charge and add enough dps that way to dps fast enough to go into electrocharge immediately (honestly don't remember here).

So..yeah, if the guide's aim is to help others emulate your playstyle, wouldn't they have to be on the same level as your group (everything on farm). But wouldn't most groups on farm just stick to what they're already doing? My group is trying to get as much t13 practice as we can into our schedule so experimenting on t10-12 doesnt seem feasible for me.

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Originally Posted by Gardes

I feel like this guide is only fully geared groups? on t10-12 doesnt seem feasible for me.

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This is right but the concepts can be applied. High DPS groups benefit from skipping mechanics, especially mechanics that lower DPS. Charges in 10 lower DPS, add phase in 11 lowers DPS, Bennus in 12 lower DPS etc.

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

This is right but the concepts can be applied. High DPS groups benefit from skipping mechanics, especially mechanics that lower DPS. Charges in 10 lower DPS, add phase in 11 lowers DPS, Bennus in 12 lower DPS etc.

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Well that's the typical philosophy with my group. Aim for as high dps as possible to skip certain things even before we mastered the phase. I do what I can as the OT (used to be MT) to help but my own issue is that there doesn't seem to be a general gauge of how much I should be doing. I mean, I realize that certain groups have different way of doing things and different comfort levels so the numbers vary just from that but I still can't tell if I'm doing 'enough' with my current gear. It's much easier as a dps because you have your gear and you just go full speed. At i125 with i120 weapon and 532 unbuffed str, 10600 hp, I'm doing 250 dps (OT) in t10 and I really can't tell if that's 'okay' or still bad. I still do tank swap on first charge and generally don't do mitigate>drop defiance while tanking bosses..yet.

250 is very low at i125. 320 is probably about right with an i120 axe.

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

250 is very low at i125. 320 is probably about right with an i120 axe.

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See? 320 with i120 axe at my current strength (20 bonus point str, 2 slaying i130 acc, 3 fending i130 acc) in actual combat with having defiance on at some parts? I'm a bit baffled here. I go hit a dummy for 1 minute with the very same stat I'm mentioning with zero defiance and I'm hovering at 300 and I do not see how I can hit any harder (sans potion) since warrior rotation is that simple (se/sp/frac). I play dragoon too on the side and I've been following the discussion on the dps forums and I've been able to hit the expected numbers out of the class while wearing certain levels of gear.

You're telling me that I should be hitting harder in actual combat (with some stance dancing) than when I'm hitting dummies with no defiance and standing still by 20 points? With my current gear? I handle double targets in the fight twice and I still dont see how I can pad my numbers that high.

In my T10 thread I posted what I do to achieve over 300 when I had i115 axe. This is doable by a group at your level, as we're in same boat.. 10-12 on farm, working on 13. However, I use BB instead of SP in T10.

Some major things to push dps in T10: healers carrying you during adds by switching Defiance off early, and hoping bard will give TP at some point before you bottom out.

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Originally Posted by Gardes

See? 320 with i120 axe at my current strength (20 bonus point str, 2 slaying i130 acc, 3 fending i130 acc) in actual combat with having defiance on at some parts? I'm a bit baffled here. I go hit a dummy for 1 minute with the very same stat I'm mentioning with zero defiance and I'm hovering at 300 and I do not see how I can hit any harder (sans potion) since warrior rotation is that simple (se/sp/frac). I play dragoon too on the side and I've been following the discussion on the dps forums and I've been able to hit the expected numbers out of the class while wearing certain levels of gear.

You're telling me that I should be hitting harder in actual combat (with some stance dancing) than when I'm hitting dummies with no defiance and standing still by 20 points? With my current gear? I handle double targets in the fight twice and I still dont see how I can pad my numbers that high.

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Add more STR. WARs should all be 30/30 str. 8000hp before defiance is plenty. Those i130 Fending accessories need to go. i90 or i110 Hybrids or go 4 slaying 1 i130 fending.

After that its rotation and timing. Unchained for defiance, take defiance off afterwards. Sounds like you are playing it very safe and giving your healers a huge HP buffer. My PLD did 299 this week and I tanked the entire fight. (Excal, i126, 30/30 str, 3 i130 slaying, i120 slaying, i110 hybrid)

Taint what was you hp during this? 7.5k ish?

Im actually very interested in pld pushing dps whats ur dps in t13 mting and what gear set do you run Taint? If you are same taint from ff11 I've always been a fan of your posts and knowledge haha

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Originally Posted by ELISASolee

Im actually very interested in pld pushing dps whats ur dps in t13 mting and what gear set do you run Taint? If you are same taint from ff11 I've always been a fan of your posts and knowledge haha

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Yep same Taint

I'll check my HP again Tuesday but I'm around 7800 hp in t10-12 and 8500 in t13.

My t13 dps is around 240 but I don't sword oath as much as I'd like. I ope with sword oath while our war eats the first flatten. Then I'm in shield oath until adds phase where I sword oath up until storm. After storm its sword oath until the first earthshakers. Then shield the rest of the way.

I mean, yeah, some of this doesn't work if your group's dps or healers are crap. But the guide offers alternatives and caveats. Just watch them for some new ideas on how to push your DPS. If your group isn't good/experienced enough to start experimenting with pushing DPS, then this guide wasn't created for you.

I will say this entire thread should say, "Do NOT attempt if your healers aren't good." All of this stuff requires healers that are above average. They don't need to be unbelievably good, but your average raiding WHM that is not an outstanding member of your group that is still working on sub-13 isn't going to be able to handle healing you out of defiance in a lot of cases.

#getgud would be my warning for this : D

My big problem in T10 is TP. We don't have a NIN in our setup so I'm usually running on fumes at around 30-35%. I don't use overpower at all on the adds since I can't afford to. If I end up main tanking the last phase I'm fine, but quite often we'll never need a tank swap the entire fight.

I can't really ask the BRD to run extra Paeon instead of say Requiem just for me, especially with 2 casters in the party.

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Originally Posted by Alkimi

My big problem in T10 is TP. We don't have a NIN in our setup so I'm usually running on fumes at around 30-35%. I don't use overpower at all on the adds since I can't afford to. If I end up main tanking the last phase I'm fine, but quite often we'll never need a tank swap the entire fight.

I can't really ask the BRD to run extra Paeon instead of say Requiem just for me, especially with 2 casters in the party.

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While it hurts DPS I use flash to pull the adds. This gives me enough TP to last the fight.

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

I will say this entire thread should say, "Do NOT attempt if your healers aren't good." All of this stuff requires healers that are above average. They don't need to be unbelievably good, but your average raiding WHM that is not an outstanding member of your group that is still working on sub-13 isn't going to be able to handle healing you out of defiance in a lot of cases.

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This should be mentioned. What Xeno is doing is awesome, but all these resources to pushing DPS as tank has brought forth a meta that is very tank dps driven. On my server, it's gotten bad to the point where everyone is doing it and doing it UNSAFELY, putting extremely high amount of pressure (and scrutiny) on healers. Like they die out of defiance to resonance in T11 and then blame healers. Come on man.

I've heard of people going YOLO NO DEFIANCE/SWORD OATH FULL STR T10-12 just to chase their personal numbers. Meanwhile their SCH ends the encounter doing 0 dps because there's no mitigation going out.

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Originally Posted by stoxastic

Lol stuff.

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Xeno's guides are actually really safe. I would say if you are trying to push more DPS while still playing Warrior safely then his guides are spot on. There are much riskier moves that you could be making but he covers how to deal damage efficiently even with poor healers.

Also considering that people have done "YOLO" T10-T12 and healers have still dealt amazing numbers then the fault lies in either the healers or the tank isn't using his CD's properly. That doesn't degenerate from what Xeno has said or what anyone else has said. You should always be pushing yourself to be better as well as pushing others around you to be better.

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Originally Posted by Lavieh

Xeno's guides are actually really safe. I would say if you are trying to push more DPS while still playing Warrior safely then his guides are spot on. There are much riskier moves that you could be making but he covers how to deal damage efficiently even with poor healers.

Also considering that people have done "YOLO" T10-T12 and healers have still dealt amazing numbers then the fault lies in either the healers or the tank isn't using his CD's properly. That doesn't degenerate from what Xeno has said or what anyone else has said. You should always be pushing yourself to be better as well as pushing others around you to be better.

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I agree that Xeno's guides are great and they are safe (he suggests not taking off defiance with T11 tank tethers, for example). But they are also made for skilled players that can deal damage while still maintaining excellent mitigation. Unfortunately, not all tanks are that skilled, and will do unsafe things in order to do more dps. When they die a lot of scrutiny is put on the healers.

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Originally Posted by stoxastic

I agree that Xeno's guides are great and they are safe (he suggests not taking off defiance with T11 tank tethers, for example). But they are also made for skilled players that can deal damage while still maintaining excellent mitigation. Unfortunately, not all tanks are that skilled, and will do unsafe things in order to do more dps. When they die a lot of scrutiny is put on the healers.

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Tanks should still understand their limitations and know their class well. Like ones that put up only Foresight for a magical Tank Killer and complain about getting one shotted.

It would be funny to see an unskilled tank worrying about improving their DPS.

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

Tanks should still understand their limitations and know their class well. Like ones that put up only Foresight for a magical Tank Killer and complain about getting one shotted.

It would be funny to see an unskilled tank worrying about improving their DPS.

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I've seen only foresight+convalescence go up on Flatten, then the PLD said that Flatten *crit* him... >.>

Lol a Flatten crit. Double bad

Should've used Awareness.

;D