Ironworks vs WoD

So this may be a silly question, but I have to ask:

As a SMN, am I worse off working on getting my Ironworks Caster gear instead of constantly running WoD for the Demon Caster gear?

I only ask because I've had rotten RNG luck in WoD and try as I might, I find myself getting discouraged with it. I think I'd rather grind out the Poetics for the Ironworks gear instead, but didn't know if that would put me at any sort of disadvantage.

As always, any and all help/advice is appreciated! Thanks! :)

As a Smn the WOD gear is my only choice for a upgrade. I feel the Ironworks gear is trash for smn. I'll be farming WoD. I've have the gloves so far, the body would be nice. Good Luck out there.

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Originally Posted by FranSeara

As a Smn the WOD gear is my only beat for a upgrade. I feel the Ironworks gear is trash for smn. I'll be farming WoD. I've have the gloves so far, the body would be nice. Good Luck out there.

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I've only been able to get the legs and feet so far. Out of over 20 runs, those are the only two I've seen drop :( I figure I'll keep trying, but I can't keep CONSTANTLY farming as I've been doing.

There are 4 BiS Ironworks pieces with sweet crit that I got me at start (Boots, Belt, Head, Brace) and now replacing two of em with even sweeter WoD crits (Belt, Head) and two other pieces are also great pre final coil upgrades (skirt, gloves). There are great pieces in WoD while and before Final Coil and why waste a free i120 piece per week for an offclass (or totally) thats barely in use? ^^

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Originally Posted by CodeCass

I've only been able to get the legs and feet so far. Out of over 20 runs, those are the only two I've seen drop :( I figure I'll keep trying, but I can't keep CONSTANTLY farming as I've been doing.

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Oh no dont do this dont burn yourself over a certain drop... make it one of four pieces do up to 15 runs in total per week and keep joy n faith :o

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Originally Posted by CodeCass

I've only been able to get the legs and feet so far. Out of over 20 runs, those are the only two I've seen drop :( I figure I'll keep trying, but I can't keep CONSTANTLY farming as I've been doing.

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Yeah, just hang in there. For me I go thru about 2-3 times a week. My Scholar has made out on the non-dropping Blm gear. Go in with a back -up plan, try to get other items for other classes, this way you don't feel like you're wasting your time.

Pretty much all the Ironworks gear will be better if it's upgraded to 130, the exception being the shoes if you don't do content with a bleeding-edge acc cap. This is assuming you'll spend the Twine to upgrade them, though.

Either way, you'll want to get the Ironworks pants, as the WoD ones are terrible for SMN.

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

Pretty much all the Ironworks gear will be better if it's upgraded to 130, the exception being the shoes if you don't do content with a bleeding-edge acc cap.

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Depends on the class. SMN for instance has almost no use for Spell Speed (When almost all your damage is in DoTs and your pet, spell speed does next to nothing for you!); so the demon robe (Crit + Det) likely beats out the ironworks robe (Crit + SSpd) for SMN - even after the augmentation. And considering the Dreadwyrm is ACC+SSpd, the WoD robe is possibly BiS for Summoner. The boots would be an improvement too unless you desperately need that acc.

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I really appreciate it. Sounds like I really just need to try and pace myself when it comes to WoD. Also, if I can just figure out which exact pieces I need from WoD and Ironworks, I'll be set to piece together a good gearset! :)

The caster body drops from the final boss chest. Knowing that, you might be able to save yourself time by joining runs in progress instead of doing full runs. Enough people still quit during runs that you shouldn't have long waits.

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Originally Posted by Garlyle

Depends on the class. SMN for instance has almost no use for Spell Speed (When almost all your damage is in DoTs and your pet, spell speed does next to nothing for you!); so the demon robe (Crit + Det) likely beats out the ironworks robe (Crit + SSpd) for SMN - even after the augmentation. The boots would be an improvement too unless you desperately need that acc.

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Did you actually do the calculations? I'm using the most recent stat weights I know of as of 2.4:

Augmented Ironworks chest: 47 crit x .215 = 10.105 INT + 33 spellspeed x 0.098 = 3.234 INT + 5 extra INT from being i130 vs i120 = 18.339 INT.

Demon Robe: 31 crit x .215 = 6.665 INT + 31 det x .284 = 8.804 INT equals a total of 15.469 INT...REALLLLY close to the Augmented Chest, but not "better" by any means, and that's not including the extra VIT you get from upgrading.

However, as i120 vs i120, there's no contest - get the Demon Robe.

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Originally Posted by SummonerSenah

The caster body drops from the final boss chest. Knowing that, you might be able to save yourself time by joining runs in progress instead of doing full runs. Enough people still quit during runs that you shouldn't have long waits.

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That's not a bad idea. I hadn't thought of that actually. If I'm reading things correctly so far, the Caster Body is the main thing I'm needing to shoot for too.

So to get the best result, I need to exchange the Demon Skirt of Casting I have in favor of the Ironworks version, keep the Demon Sandals of Casting I have, and shoot for the Demon Robe of Casting from the final boss. Is there any harm in getting filling in the rest with Ironworks, like the head and gloves, or should I be trying for the complete WoD set?

So sorry I'm asking so many questions!

I dont know especially the WoD/Ironworks stats for caster gear but my experience from Tanks and Healers is that a Mix is always a good choice to get accuracy/ilvl/substats...

OP, try the Body, Hand, Feet and mix in the rest. Pound per Pound you'll come out ahead. Spell Speed is almost worthless on Smn. Don't make the that mistake.
Also, for me I won't be upgrading any Ironworks gear gear, why? Its going to worthless come the Expansion. If you find yourself wanting to try FCOB, go ahead and upgrade. If you dont try FCOB, I'd try getting my weapon upgraded.

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Originally Posted by FranSeara

OP, try the Body, Hand, Feet and mix in the rest. Pound per Pound you'll come out ahead. Spell Speed is almost worthless on Smn. Don't make the that mistake.

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Sounds like as good a plan as any! I appreciate the help and I'll start working on this and see how it goes! :)

Hey I just do both, glamour what I like, Wod gives poetics, spam Wod get some gear then buy ironworks accessories, upgrade said accessories with the free carbon coats from the new daily, upgrade what little gloams I have left from what stardusts I get from doing said weekly. ill be max satisfyingly long enough before its obsolete when 3.0 comes out.

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

Did you actually do the calculations? I'm using the most recent stat weights I know of as of 2.4:

Augmented Ironworks chest: 47 crit x .215 = 10.105 INT + 33 spellspeed x 0.098 = 3.234 INT + 5 extra INT from being i130 vs i120 = 18.339 INT.

Demon Robe: 31 crit x .215 = 6.665 INT + 31 det x .284 = 8.804 INT equals a total of 15.469 INT...REALLLLY close to the Augmented Chest, but not "better" by any means, and that's not including the extra VIT you get from upgrading.

However, as i120 vs i120, there's no contest - get the Demon Robe.

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This math is really solid - for Black Mage. But OP is asking about Summoner gear here, where Spell Speed is very much ignore-able - DoT ticks aren't affected by SSpd, Egi attacks aren't affected by SSpd, Fester, Rouse, Rouse More aren't on GCD - the only constant damage output effected by SSpd is Ruin, which has a potency of 80.

Mind you, I'm not a Summoner, and the only reason I dabble in it is because I mainly play Scholar, but I do get the feeling SSpd has no value to them.

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Originally Posted by Kietsu

This math is really solid - for Black Mage. But OP is asking about Summoner gear here, where Spell Speed is very much ignore-able - DoT ticks aren't affected by SSpd, Egi attacks aren't affected by SSpd, Fester, Rouse, Rouse More aren't on GCD - the only constant damage output effected by SSpd is Ruin, which has a potency of 80.

Mind you, I'm not a Summoner, and the only reason I dabble in it is because I mainly play Scholar, but I do get the feeling SSpd has no value to them.

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Pretty sure that's smn stat weights. Spell speed is actually the strongest secondary stat for blm, valued at just under 0.3 int each, while for smn its under 0.1 int.

There's some really great info here! Thanks again everyone!

No item in WoD is BiS, over a 130 item like augmented ironworks. You lose out on your main stat and vit. The less vit you have the more likely you are to die like on T13 you don't have enough hp you can die to Megaflare, Gigaflare, Rage of Bahamut. When you are dead you do 0 dps so vit is important.

Go with the WOD gear, worrying about T13 long before you get there is not going help out with the rest of the game. Spell kills your DPS, you could just buy rings and meld vit on to them, like ALL the every other FCOB player do.

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

...
Augmented Ironworks chest: 47 crit x .215 = 10.105 INT + 33 spellspeed x 0.098 = 3.234 INT + 5 extra INT from being i130 vs i120 = 18.339 INT.

Demon Robe: 31 crit x .215 = 6.665 INT + 31 det x .284 = 8.804 INT equals a total of 15.469 INT....

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The 3.234 INT from spellspeed should really be 0. So it is really only 15.105 which sless that 15.469. So the VIT is the determining factor, but you may give up a tiny fraction of DPS for it. More spell speed means constant casting leads to forced downtime to charge MP in stuff like T10 and T11 so DPS contribution of 0.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

No item in WoD is BiS, over a 130 item like augmented ironworks. You lose out on your main stat and vit. The less vit you have the more likely you are to die like on T13 you don't have enough hp you can die to Megaflare, Gigaflare, Rage of Bahamut. When you are dead you do 0 dps so vit is important.

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Bard body would like to say hi.

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Originally Posted by gamesmart

Bard body would like to say hi.

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Dreadwyrm body is better

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Dreadwyrm body is better

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44 Crit > 33 SS + 105 HP

May be wrong on the VIT value though.

Little known fact but, SSPD does in fact affect pets despite what SE has said in the past. The pets affect include Eos, Selene, and Garuda.

Even though the WoD caster body has more desirable secondary stats, the upgraded poetic chest is better. If you don't have plans or see the upgrade items showing up in your near future though, the WoD caster body is a really good choice if you can get it to drop.

Literally the only reason to go for WoD gear is if you like how it looks, and going no further than your tolerance for RNG will allow.

If you don't care one way or the other, Ironworks is your deal.

So currently, I've farmed out of WoD the Caster Head, Body, Legs, and Feet....I'm thinking about stopping the grind there, and filling in the rest with Ironworks. As I have no plans to tackle Coil anytime soon, is there any reason why this wouldn't work for my SMN? I have heard on here that the Ironworks Head is better than it's WoD counterpart, so I was also curious if I should swap those out?

Again, thanks for the info folks.

Still cant get that Caster's body!! After 5 runs, I took the monk feet....lol I passed on the Bard body and Hat 2 times!!

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Originally Posted by FranSeara

Still cant get that Caster's body!! After 5 runs, I took the monk feet....lol I passed on the Bard body and Hat 2 times!!

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I understand your pain all too well! I've run that raid more times than I'd care to know, and I'd only seen it drop twice. The first time I lost the roll against another SMN, and then last night I was able to win the roll against a BLM.....the crazy thing is I won on a roll of 9! I guess that's just the RNG...

While wod gear may not be bis it serves as a great filler until you can upgrade ironworks gear.
I am using the Ninja chest piece from wod until i can upgrade my ironworks, this week i am shooting for Demon Robe of Casting
Tbh some ironworks gear (depending on class) is very much meh

I always go after the main stat as long as my accuracy is fine. The other secondary stats matter, but it's not worth being stuck with lower ilvl gear because of it.

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Originally Posted by Maero

While wod gear may not be bis it serves as a great filler until you can upgrade ironworks gear.

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So another silly question: how exactly do I go about upgrading any Ironworks gear I get? And could anyone tell me what I should be looking at acquiring first? For example; should I focus on getting the Ironworks headpiece first, or maybe getting all the accessories? And should I try and upgrade the Ironworks as I acquire them, or get what I need first, then go back and upgrade?

As for what I'm currently trying to accomplish: I'm mostly just wanting to wrap up the story, and feel comfortable with the iLevel of my gear so that I'll feel more or less up-to-date come Expansion time. I don't necessarily have to have everything BiS at the present, but I would like to be able to start clearing EX Primals and whatnot, and maybe in the future work on some Coil.

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Originally Posted by CodeCass

So another silly question: how exactly do I go about upgrading any Ironworks gear I get?

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Currently you get carboncoat from doing weekly quest of CT, ST and wod which allows you to upgrade accesories. Carbontwine is for body, legs, etc. which currently you can get from spending hunt seals. You need 6 tokens for 1 carbontwine, so 3,000 seals total. Next patch will most likely have carbontwine in wod but on a weekly lockout. Only other option for carbontwine is Final coil atm aside from hunts.
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Soldiery gear is more then good enough to do EX Primals actually just as a fyi

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

The 3.234 INT from spellspeed should really be 0. So it is really only 15.105 which sless that 15.469. So the VIT is the determining factor, but you may give up a tiny fraction of DPS for it. More spell speed means constant casting leads to forced downtime to charge MP in stuff like T10 and T11 so DPS contribution of 0.

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No, the weight isn't 0. It shouldn't be 0 just because you don't like it.

For what the weights are good for, they are as close to fact as we can currently get. While it is absolutely true that Spell Speed doesn't help a Summoner very much, the fact that there is a weight for it at all is proof that it does something. Pretending that it is zero just because you don't like it is poor judgement; the secondary stats really don't matter that much. The only thing one should actually worry about is the loss from overcompensating on Accuracy. That is, unless min-maxing to gain 1.5-2% extra DPS is worth the trouble to a particular person.

It is also worth noting that the speed stat does not make you run out of MP/TP in Coil!. The fact that the fights are ungodly long in comparison to upkeep time is what makes people run out of resource. It's going to happen in fights this long whether you stack speed or not, so stop blaming the stat.

For fun, here's a list of things that Spell Speed helps Summoner with:

1. Ruin Spam
2. Getting dots on an enemy from a cold start, like when an add appears that needs to be bursted down but started away from the boss.
3. Getting an extra spell out of Raging Strikes
4. It's currently affecting pets. It may be a bug, but you might as well roll with it while it's there.
5. Having to use any of these spells when Swiftcast is down: Resurrection, Summon, Shadowflare

So, yeah; definitely not a "0 DPS" contribution.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Dreadwyrm body is better

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Mind backing that up with facts? Based on math done with current stat weights, Demon Tabard of Aiming has a combined equivalent of 66.956 DEX, whereas the Dreadwyrm one has a stat equivalent of 66.193 DEX. Besides, you don't need 130 everything to survive T13 as a bard.

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Originally Posted by CodeCass

I understand your pain all too well! I've run that raid more times than I'd care to know, and I'd only seen it drop twice. The first time I lost the roll against another SMN, and then last night I was able to win the roll against a BLM.....the crazy thing is I won on a roll of 9! I guess that's just the RNG...

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Good new is, I got my 3rd Zodiac weapon on Sch!

Depending on the job and what stats you're looking for, the Demon set is more or less a mix and match for the Iron works or a place holder until you can get poetic upgrades. Mostly some of the Demon set is a better choice for an i120 compared to Iron works. Unless the Demon set can be enhanced in a future update, the i130 iron works is the only reason to farm poetics. I've been looking for tank and Drg pieces and I'd rather have the Demon body over Ironworks at 120 for tank and Demon pants over iron works for drg. That said bard might want Iron works over demon for hand gear (if you don't need the need the skill speed) but i130 is iron works. If anything Ive been using that Garland tool thing just to compare sets and nit pick between the two for the stats I'd have more need for. As for Summoner I don't know what the main stats are for it, but the top row seems to be the same on everything. Looking at the two side by side, I'd choose the demon feet. Unless Acc and Spell speed are better used on Blm or Summon pet.

Ps: Does any Summoner stats influence pets like the summoning skill and MP pool did in FFXI?

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Originally Posted by Zumi

No item in WoD is BiS, over a 130 item like augmented ironworks. You lose out on your main stat and vit. The less vit you have the more likely you are to die like on T13 you don't have enough hp you can die to Megaflare, Gigaflare, Rage of Bahamut. When you are dead you do 0 dps so vit is important.

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You do not need to be full 130 to get the recommendet HP pool (6100+ for caster, including group buff and food) for "easier" mode.

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Originally Posted by Kikosho

SSPD does in fact affect pets despite what SE has said in the past

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Source? If this would be true, we would see it in the tooltip (cooldowntime) and it would be measureable.

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Originally Posted by KarstenS

You do not need to be full 130 to get the recommendet HP pool (6100+ for caster, including group buff and food) for "easier" mode.



Source? If this would be true, we would see it in the tooltip (cooldowntime) and it would be measureable.

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I remember a video being posted where a pet skill went off CD faster with higher spsd - think it was a SCH testing something. Might be in healer forums.