a raid group i know...

In turn 12 they all run theyre own red fire by picking up blue fire. Is this common or should they designate someone to do red/fire?

Im pretty sure this is the common strat. How else would you do it, have the bard get them all? No way thats ridiculous

We personally have our bard do it as the other jobs have other things to worry about and can't necessarily move across the arena. The bard, who won't lose the dps, instead is supposed to do the work so that the other dps and healers can stay put and do their thing.

I agree with Lili...that's a lot of responsibility for just one person. If that person dies then it's over Johnny. Seems legit to have everyone including the main tank help with Blue/Red fire.

I've done it both ways, i've had us run all of our own; it worked fine. Our current strat has the Scholar doing all the running and it's even better. At least it lets me stay on Phoenix the whole time :P (Our Bard does the running for the passing mechanic)

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Originally Posted by LilianaNighthawk

Im pretty sure this is the common strat. How else would you do it, have the bard get them all? No way thats ridiculous

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I've done all the Redfires/Bluefires on both BRD and WHM. It is far from ridiculous, and is in fact quite simple once you understand all the nuances of the mechanic. It also allows other roles to focus on DPS/their own responsibilities by putting it on one person.

We have our healers take turns doing it. It's not hard. That way dps can maximize dps on the boss.

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Originally Posted by Traison

...Our current strat has the Scholar doing all the running and it's even better. At least it lets me stay on Phoenix the whole time :P (Our Bard does the running for the passing mechanic)

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We have whichever healer who feels like doing it do the passing mechanic! He didn't want to do the passing mechanic because he's used to the SCH from his other group doing it.

Seems like T12 is like T8 where you get together in PF and discover that there are a lot of different ways people did things.

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Originally Posted by Kuroyasha

We have our healers take turns doing it. It's not hard. That way dps can maximize dps on the boss.

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Same thing for us.

There is a lot of ways to do it, but optimally I think SCH does the blue/red fire and WHM/Caster DPS (cos mDEF) or BRD move to WHM to pass the brand is the most optimal.

Asking any of the DPS to do the blue/red fire is an actual DPS loss. SCH's DPS is never going to match your BRD, and since SCH is primarily DoT based it is still okay. The loss is not as significant as the loss on any of your DPS doing it.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

Asking any of the DPS to do the blue/red fire is an actual DPS loss. SCH's DPS is never going to match your BRD, and since SCH is primarily DoT based it is still okay. The loss is not as significant as the loss on any of your DPS doing it.

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I don't want to start anything, but I'm curious how this is true given that BRD can move around and still attack and not actually lose any dps. The mechanic doesn't stun nor does it require anything more than a quick glance and adjustment on the part of any who do it.

How is it a dps loss when a BRD can do everything without stopping their attacks? It's like saying BRD was losing dps when they did missiles and Brainjack in T8.

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Originally Posted by Ophie-Mio

I don't want to start anything, but I'm curious how this is true given that BRD can move around and still attack and not actually lose any dps. The mechanic doesn't stun nor does it require anything more than a quick glance and adjustment on the part of any who do it.

How is it a dps loss when a BRD can do everything without stopping their attacks? It's like saying BRD was losing dps when they did missiles and Brainjack in T8.

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You didn't know that having the Bluefire debuff actually cuts over 90% of your offensive powers that your arrows only deals 10+ damage?

Ideally :
1) SCH
2) SMN
3) WHM
4) BRD

for the red/blue


We don't have a SMN in our group so I do ours as a BRD. It's how we started out with it so never bothered changing it.
DPS loss sucks but oh well lol. We don't have any team wide DPS issues so it doesn't really matter, especially at this stage when everyone's IL should be more than enough to go to next phase with 4 Benus without bothering with Pots

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Originally Posted by DoubleD

Ideally :
1) SCH
2) SMN
3) WHM
4) BRD

for the red/blue


We don't have a SMN in our group so I do ours as a BRD. It's how we started out with it so never bothered changing it.
DPS loss sucks but oh well lol. We don't have any team wide DPS issues so it doesn't really matter, especially at this stage when everyone's IL should be more than enough to go to next phase with 4 Benus without bothering with Pots

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Well I'm still doing it too cos "everyone is used to it" but it sucks for me because I see my DPS drops from 500-525ish from Phase 1 down to crappy numbers lol.

And sometimes when one of the melee DPS (we run MNK NIN BLM BRD) gets lazy on the bennus and the OT asks "kill the bennu guys" and I'm like "brah I have blue fire and I am on the other end of the arena lol" (cos sometimes bad bluefire drops and tank has to pull bennu away already.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

You didn't know that having the Bluefire debuff actually cuts over 90% of your offensive powers that your arrows only deals 10+ damage?

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The more ya know! I actually didn't. It's hilarious... I've cleared this and still didn't know. But yeah, I'm main healer (as SCH) and do the passing mechanic so I never noticed.

our SMN handles redfire for us. Initially I was the one(BRD) but then we realized that dots arent affected by the dmg debuff of bluefire and SMNs have sprint so positioning wasnt an issue.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

Well I'm still doing it too cos "everyone is used to it" but it sucks for me because I see my DPS drops from 500-525ish from Phase 1 down to crappy numbers lol.

And sometimes when one of the melee DPS (we run MNK NIN BLM BRD) gets lazy on the bennus and the OT asks "kill the bennu guys" and I'm like "brah I have blue fire and I am on the other end of the arena lol" (cos sometimes bad bluefire drops and tank has to pull bennu away already.

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yeah, I so wish the melee can cover for us damaging Benu when we're blue flamed, but they're busy pounding on Pheonix and oblivious lol. I don't think any of our party members even know about the 90% damage debuff lol. I didn't even notice until I figured out I was hitting for shit everytime I had blue flame lol

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Originally Posted by DoubleD

yeah, I so wish the melee can cover for us damaging Benu when we're blue flamed, but they're busy pounding on Pheonix and oblivious lol. I don't think any of our party members even know about the 90% damage debuff lol. I didn't even notice until I figured out I was hitting for shit everytime I had blue flame lol

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Don't you guys read the tool tip of the various buffs/debuffs during progression lol :(

It cuts the healing you receive too.

My group has the person who gets the red fire to run into the bluefire. Its not really a significant dps loss for melee as they can use gap closers to return to the boss, and we found that the fireball would often spawn right next to the person its tethered to, forcing them to run away anyway.

I like it because its a safe strategy and doesn't overly rely on one person to do everything.

just have the whitemage do it, there is only like 2 seconds of solo healing involved at all anyway, and you dont lose out on dps.

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Originally Posted by DoubleD

yeah, I so wish the melee can cover for us damaging Benu when we're blue flamed, but they're busy pounding on Pheonix and oblivious lol. I don't think any of our party members even know about the 90% damage debuff lol. I didn't even notice until I figured out I was hitting for shit everytime I had blue flame lol

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We have tank hold Bennu at spawn under Phoenix so me and NIN can tab onto it, burn to around 30-40%, tank pulls out and BRD n BLM finishes it off.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

We have tank hold Bennu at spawn under Phoenix so me and NIN can tab onto it, burn to around 30-40%, tank pulls out and BRD n BLM finishes it off.

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Most group does that, but there are also a lot of times one of the melee forgets about it or the range forgets about bennu, or when the bennu is being pulled away the BRD is on bluefire debuff and the BLM alone isn't enough to finish off. Just a general observation.

Our BRD deals with all the Bluefires (which is...2 or 3 per run? I should know this but don't lol). He has it timed really well, so he barely loses DPS. As for the Brand, our SCH runs into our WHM every time, throughout the entire fight (yes, our Heals have it even in last phase). We also do 4-2-2 (tank/ranged/melee) for the Font.

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Originally Posted by LilianaNighthawk

Im pretty sure this is the common strat. How else would you do it, have the bard get them all? No way thats ridiculous

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Having the BRD get all of them works out to higher raid DPS, as BRDs can continue to DPS on the move at range, but others cannot.

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Originally Posted by Zaft

Having the BRD get all of them works out to higher raid DPS, as BRDs can continue to DPS on the move at range, but others cannot.

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You mean your scholar can't?

I'm pretty sure SCH doing the blue/red fire mechanics instead of BRDs results in higher raid DPS.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

Don't you guys read the tool tip of the various buffs/debuffs during progression lol :(

It cuts the healing you receive too.

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It took 2 weeks to my group to realize I'm losing DPS with bluefire mechanic even though I told them from day one. We used to make it to the Bennu phase right at the moment the 5th Bennu spawns "We need more DPS!". Got the usual "Bennu is dying slowly, wake up !" while debuffed and running to the redfire. Good times !
Well actually, nothing changed. I'm still doing it even though I told them pets were not affected by the debuff or that casters can sprint if needed...

You know, we're Bards, if there is a mechanic that needs movement, it's on us no matter what this is. Same for mechanics that involved no movement (hello T8 !), or tanking weak adds. And Renauds in the old T7...
We're the punching-balls of the parties ! :)

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

You mean your scholar can't?

I'm pretty sure SCH doing the blue/red fire mechanics instead of BRDs results in higher raid DPS.

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You can do SCH as well, that works fine. I was more responding to her speaking about having their members all get it themselves. Having a BRD take the debuff for 2-3 seconds is much less loss.

In our group I do the redfire (on WHM). It's actually pretty easy because unlike a bard, I can sprint.

Should have the SCH do it probably the best way to do red/blue fire.

our group makes the bard do it. We understand he'll loose dps from day one but it's a bigger dps lost for a melee to disengage just do pick up a blue fire then run to a red fire. There's a mutual agreement between our dps and the bard, you do that mechanic and dont worry about your dps, we'll handle your dps. we this strat we always hit 4 bennus. Sure there are time where our crits just wont proc and firestarter just wont come out and the melee got blue fire twice but hey, all we had to do to still hit 4 bennu was lb the boss.

We do everyone gets their own. Obviously the other options are high over all dps, but find this way a) increases everyone's awareness as to where the fight loop is when you have to watch for it and b) prevents accidental collisions "if it ain't on you get your rear to the left.

In our group the bard grabs the blue puddle and gets every red fire. We've been beating it for 7 weeks now and it hasn't wiped us except for when we were learning. It's not much at all for one person to handle. There are plenty of mechanics in this coil where one person generally takes care of it. Especially on the healer side. I see no reason to avoid doing it here when we already have to do similar roles elsewhere.

So few raid groups that have a SMN in this thread ;-;

I run MNK/NIN/BRD(me)/SMN and it is so easy for a SMN to take care of all the blue fires because he can apply fresh dots to Phoenix and pop Sprint to handle redfire every time.

I did it at first until I read the tooltip of blue flame (Ooshima some of do actually do that!) and realized I was being nerfed for 5-6 seconds hardcore so we switched it up. I swap the purgatory with our SCH now and we let our WHM tunnel heal. Also my SCH and I both rock about 7k HPs and our WHM doesn't have any crafted i110 so his HP is considerably lower. Works very well for us.

I'm also interested in one of the comments I read where the melee help burn Bennu? Melee doesn't leave the boss in my group. For us, it results in faster pushes. I just manage my CD's differently than normal in 1st/2nd phase. I literally blow everything I have and solo the first Bennu, not even dot help from SMN. 2nd bennu the SMN banes the boss and spread his dots to bennu and may throw an additional Ruin at it but aside from the dots, I'm the only one who actually focuses 2nd bennu. Should be noted that our PLD grabs first Bennu and our WAR grabs 2nd bennu so his DPS helps the push on non-CD Bennu's as well. 60sec in between Bennu, 2 min CD for Raging Strikes. By 3rd Bennu spawn I have all CD's back and repeat the whole process. We normally get 4 bennus with about 20-30 seconds before 5th would spawn.


But we learned long ago to be flexible with strats. Not everything works for every raid set-up. We experimented and found what works best for us. It's cool to read the different ways people handle these mechanics :D

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Originally Posted by PArcher

Our BRD deals with all the Bluefires (which is...2 or 3 per run? I should know this but don't lol). He has it timed really well, so he barely loses DPS. As for the Brand, our SCH runs into our WHM every time, throughout the entire fight (yes, our Heals have it even in last phase). We also do 4-2-2 (tank/ranged/melee) for the Font.

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Im the BRD that does Blue/Red flames and pretty much this^

Most of the time you could say a Bennu comes up every other brand, and with that in mind you have an idea on when to pop cooldowns where they wont got to waste with blue flame debuff. Sometimes using cooldowns in between each set of brand would allow you to kill the bennu before a red flame is cast anyway making dps lost minimal. If anything you shouldnt have blue flames on no longer than 3-4 seconds.

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Originally Posted by JayCommon

So few raid groups that have a SMN in this thread ;-;

I run MNK/NIN/BRD(me)/SMN and it is so easy for a SMN to take care of all the blue fires because he can apply fresh dots to Phoenix and pop Sprint to handle redfire every time.

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We run MNK/BLM/SMN/BRD. Our smn used to handle the kiting on T7 but we have the BRD handle the bluefire because he pops in the hole only for a few seconds. He got the timing down. :O
But yeah, our SMN is badass. She's usually top in the ranks of enmity right below our mnk and usually fighting with the blm.

We run DRG/NIN/BLM and me as SMN and I run Fires without a hitch. My DPS is not-so-awesome, so I usually assign myself to do mechanics like that since I have really good pattern recognition and raid awareness. It's all about knowing the strengths and weaknesses of your raidmates, I think, though of course in pugs that's really hard to guage. Either way, I can't recommend anyone other than SCH/SMN/BRD/WHM to do Fires...it's too big of a DPS loss on any other job to do them.

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Originally Posted by Ophie-Mio

We run MNK/BLM/SMN/BRD. Our smn used to handle the kiting on T7 but we have the BRD handle the bluefire because he pops in the hole only for a few seconds. He got the timing down. :O
But yeah, our SMN is badass. She's usually top in the ranks of enmity right below our mnk and usually fighting with the blm.

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Cool! :)

Yeah, no point in switching things up once your team already has them down. And I can understand why people would prefer a BLM over a SMN, but there are competent SMNs out there that are capable of putting up very respectable numbers.

And literally the only times I need to ballad for him, is because we are progressing and people wipe so he snags the Raises, or at lulls in the fight (first DB in t13 comes to mind) where I battle voice a Ballad for the healers for 30s and he just happens to benefit from it as well :)

I do all the blackfires, redfire/bluefire, last two stacks of fire fountain and run the benu macro as SCH. I DPS all of phase one and two save for a few lustrates here and there to help out my WHM partner. I'm told my DPS spikes around 300.

If anyone is wondering, in phase two our WHM deals with flames of unforgiveness alone by passing it between himself and our BLM. Our BLM just stands still while it happens and turrets so it doesn't effect his DPS.

Basically both healers take on as much responsibility as possible in order to free up our DPS.

edit:

My groups current setup is: BRD/BLM/NIN/MNK for awhile we ran BLM/NIN/MNK/MNK while our BRD was on vacation. Three melee is a pain in the ass, but nice DPS.

After reading this I am surprised so many people don't use the healers for it since its the only way we done it.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

After reading this I am surprised so many people don't use the healers for it since its the only way we done it.

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Most groups I know on Gilgamesh have the bard do it. DPS is a joke in these fights now and it's not like DPS ever have many mechanics they have to deal with. Healers passing brand in second phase, tanks in final phase.