Perhaps one of the more frustrating parts of this game has to be timers.
Sorry, but exactly WHY do we need timers on anything we do? Every leve, dungeon and craft?
If I may, so far as I can tell seems the presence of timers is used purely as a way of inflating difficulty, the unfortunate consequence being the sidelining of the Armory's big feature: freedom of choice.
The ability to do a character how you like as long as it works is kind of nullified when we get back into FFXI's rut of "do it this way or lose out". To often players are missing out on opportunities because doing something in a set time is not as feasible as the community perceived "best way". Be it because of some unforseeable infeasibility of a group setup or just a result of the RNG, I don't see any reason for the presence of timers all over the place putting arbitrary limits where they don't belong.
Never mind the current ridiculous tendency to lock gear drops behind timers. Is there some reason a fist weapon should be easier to obtain than a spear? Why? I can see locking BETTER gear to rewarding doing something faster but seriously, WHY. There is so little rhyme or reason to this it's ridiculous!
Where would timers be interesting?
If dungeons drop the timers, the Devs could offer the option of 'challenge' dungeons WITH timers. Make them tougher or require specific timed goals which reward better gear than the less challenging dungeon. Players who are just hitting their 50's could still enjoy tackling dungeons while those who have dedicated time and effort to get all the smash hits from various jobs can tackle the tougher dungeons how they please. No one gets cut out of at least experiencing some facet of dungeons as long as they can handle the fights.
If a leve doesn't specifically require you do it in a set time, don't limit it. Timers could be appropriate for the previously mentioned 'challenge' mode, or in cases where the goals justify it. Leves where you just need to investigate or visit objectives don't need timers. Trees aren't going to run away and I doubt the random forest critters we need to slaughter are plotting some grand escape from their homes. Timers could continue to be appropriate for quests where say... you need to chase down bandits or unveil imps, go have a timer indicating how long until they 'escape' then.
tl;dr Drop the timers already. There is little justification for everything needing to be done within a time limit. Some content justifies such deadflines, but you're using it as a hammer to beat down nails that don't exist.
Do away with needless timers
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08-23-2011, 05:52 AMPhenidateDo away with needless timers
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08-23-2011, 06:00 AMRuriWhat do you mean by lock gear drops?Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenidate
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08-23-2011, 06:09 AMPhenidateDon't down a boss in the 'speed run' time limit? Some class gear can't drop. In most cases specific classes are favored for making these speed runs (While not exclusive to this, the current FoTM build is all ranged with Gladiator tank. Most of the rewards for these speed runs are unrelated to these classes)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruri
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08-23-2011, 06:18 AMRuri
Ah yes. The dungeon is kind of messed up atm.
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08-23-2011, 06:27 AMPhenidateYep. Dungeons are interesting and hard, which is what a lot of the community is lusting for (rightly so), but they are far from balanced in terms of reward and game play all things considered. I doubt they will continue to be how they are; considering the numerous issues, both technical and gameplay in nature... I'd hazard a guess that they did indeed get them out so we have something to do for the time being.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruri
I do hope they expand the games repertoire of challenge to be more than tiresome speed runs and zerg rushes. Doing everything 'best as possible' is only one of many ways to make games challenging. I would if anything like to see opportunities for more melee centric or balanced party groups to be recognized as viable.
I rather regret restarting on a different server, (thought at least I'm with friends on Figaro!) To-to-rak is about all I've done but I've done it so much with so many different group makeups, perhaps the most fun I've had is with melee heavy groups. Granted, the times where we outshine the current All Range + tank groups tend to be far and few between.
For most of what I know on late game content, I'm relying on what I hear from folks in Dancing Mad (who managed server first on downing old Batty.) -
08-23-2011, 06:59 AMFrein
I have to agree about the timers. Timers on guildleves don't matter too much, though I don't really see the point, either. What I really can't comprehend is the focus on time in dungeons. Why exactly are we expected to speedrun them? Who figured that running past as many mobs as possible should be the goal?
I suppose the timers are in place to limit the number of players in instances but this is not the solution. This is yet another example of SE trying to prevent unwanted things by punishing the innocent. According to their logic the best way to prevent instance bloat is to close down the dungeon entirely. They also combat RMT by making trade as difficult as possible, because if there is no economy, RMT can't infest it! -
08-23-2011, 07:10 AMPhenidateWhat I'm unclear on is WHY they are so concerned about to many instances at once? Poor/insufficient hardware? Bad netcode? General dislike for people wanting to take their time in one?Quote:
Originally Posted by Frein
Whats more is... its not like they are stopping us from going right back in anyways! What gives? -
08-25-2011, 05:11 PMKraggyProbably the same reason Blizzard, Turbine, Trion and most other MMO developers I suspect limit the number of instances that can exist at any given time, either in the way Blizzard does with a hard limit or like Turbine which limit people to running a limited number of instances an hour: implementing servers with an effectively infinite capacity is not justifiable based on cost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenidate
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08-25-2011, 07:51 PMKorbei
I'd rather be limited to a set number of raid runs in a given day. Preferably a separation limitation for each dungeon, but that's a bit nit-picky. I don't like to feel rushed through the content by an arbitrary timer. It just makes me want to avoid the content altogether and continue grinding in a party or hunting NMs. And all the content in the game is subject to the same timer.
DO EVERYTHING IN 30 MINUTES OR LESS!!!
What is this? A pizza delivery simulator?
If I wanted to do something in 30 minutes or less, I'd pull out my iPhone or turn on a console. I don't log into a game like FFXIV to do things for 30 minutes. I want content that will stretch out across an evening without being artificially inflated by having you run across the world multiple times.. as is the case with most quests. -
08-26-2011, 03:30 PMPhenidateI don't recall the last time WOW had limited instances, at least not for the important content like dungeons (plus now most of the open world is partially instanced too, with phasing). There are also plenty of games which did not restrict or try to cap instances, like CoH and Guildwars.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraggy
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08-27-2011, 12:03 AMRisaCooper
I actually don't mind the timers lol. Helps things get done faster and makes pple have to do things and not just sit around. (though i like doing thing constantly when in prtys or dungeons so i guess that's just preference?)
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08-27-2011, 01:57 AMAeyisHeroic dungeon, raid dungeon time limits~Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenidate
Pretty much all of WoWs imporant content dungeons had some sort of limits.
Dont suppose you ever did one of those dungeon events such as halloween. :P -
08-27-2011, 02:05 AMsyntaxliesarnt the two timed dropped a bow, and sword.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenidate
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08-27-2011, 08:42 AMFreinThe key difference here is that WoW doesn't encourage you to skip as much content as possible. In fact, you (generally) can't do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeyis
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08-28-2011, 01:15 PMPhenidateI was responding to what I thought you were saying, that is, limiting the total number of instances that can be running at any given time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeyis
I recall this being a problem during early WOW but for the life of me can't recall how bad it was back in the day.
Plus remember that compared to the sheer VOLUME of content in WOW, most of it was not timed. Today timed quests and dungeons are a supreme rarity. Boss fights I agree are timed, having things like the dreaded Rage Timer.
But, outside the 'rage timer', the only time you see actual timers in things like dungeons? It's for a very specific portion of the dungeon, often times part of an optional boss. Failing to kill the boss doesn't boot you from the entire dungeon. You aren't removed from any non-raid dungeon if you fail to do it in a set time, a tleast not in any of the dungeons from 10-85 that I can think of. USUALLY that part of the encounter even resets!
(I speak for Modern WOW granted, as I've got a few gaps where I 'quit' WOW)
In terms of timers, I do want to clarify again that I DO NOT MIND TIMERS. Timers can be great, adding tension and a sense of urgency when they are relevant.
I don't know how many people played WOW let alone got high enough for it, but one of my favorite memories from LK was helping the Banshee Queen run like a (stunningly hot for a dead elf) sissy from Arthas.
This fight does have a timer, but rather than slap you in the face with a 'stop watch' on the screen, it meters that time limit out in "How far away Arthas is from shanking you". Early on this made the whole ordeal pretty dang intense.
Compared to that, we're seeing timers thrown everywhere in FFXIV. Why? What is that timer counting down to? Obviously us failing the leve, mission or dungeon, but whats the REASON?
With Toto, the only real reason is a hypocritical guard who has let about a dozen people (according to the story) go to their deaths; the same NPC all of a sudden has a change of heart and takes a very keen interest in how long players can stay in the dungeon with a very arbitrary time limit.