It seems to becoming more and more common for folks to enter via duty finder and if their desired sought after piece does not drop they abandon the alliance. Just an idea here...Would it be considered to add a more attractive bounty in the loot pool of final boss to ease this trend? I know that doing so will still fall under the "One loot item per week" rule. BUT, if that item where to be an encrypted tombstone or a carbontwine, or both it may temp folks to stay the entire run. Just a thought.
WoD Dropping.
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02-05-2015, 11:21 AMOtomisWoD Dropping.
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02-05-2015, 11:59 AMDoubleD
The rare drop crafting item at the end (I think) sells for a lot of cash.
And it wouldn't be much problem because most of the tanks need to stay until the last boss since a lot want that chest piece.
The DPS that drop out are usually bard and they can easily be replaced. -
02-05-2015, 12:59 PMMilesSaintboroguh
This has been going on since CT. Every boss has a certain loot table and when someone sees that their wanted item doesn't drop, they see no need to keep going when all future loot won't be any use to them.
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02-05-2015, 02:45 PMShaneDawn
Encrypted tomestone when the alternative is doing T11 with a weekly chest lockout? Nty. They will add the upgrades, but it's still way too early as FCoB still has a chest lockout. That would be basically handing out the stuff easy.
There's a several things they could (and maybe they should) do about the loot there. Doubling the loot dropped by each boss, introducing a token system for finishing the raid from beginning to end, adding all the loot only after the last boss or add higher penalty for leaving early. Those are just to name a few. -
02-05-2015, 04:26 PMChiramu
The Puff of Darkness isn't incentive enough to stay until the end?
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02-05-2015, 04:33 PMCidelNot with it's Atma/Pony/Alexandrite drop rate, its not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiramu
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02-05-2015, 05:15 PMUrtear
Lootucifer currently has WoD in between his 'cheeks' and some of those players may have finally seen that loot after 20+ runs. Hence, party drop, F this place mentality.
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02-05-2015, 07:17 PMChiramuI've seen way more of the Puffs than I have of the ponies :p. Also you should get your alexandrite from the maps!Quote:
Originally Posted by Cidel
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02-05-2015, 07:30 PMNestamaIt's just a minion that does nothing to boost gameplay elements, whereas (some of) the gear can be used in Final Coil.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiramu
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02-05-2015, 07:58 PMkiotsuketeNo, it's not. Because super low drop rate + rolling vs 7 others = not worth it for a mere vanity item.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiramu
Back when ST was first introduced, it was worth staying all the way to the end even if your preferred item didn't drop because at least you were guaranteed a 1/8 chance to win a sand and/or oil.
So my prediction is that this trend will continue until twines and/or coats are added to WoD. (Which I wish SE had done rather than add them to hunts.) Or, they could implement truly randomized loot tables where any piece of gear can drop from any boss.
But honestly, I wonder if leaving early is really that big a problem. I've seen lots of people (usually DPS) do it over several WoD runs, and a rep always pops in on the way to the next trash pull. If it was a tank or healer that left, we may wait a little longer but I don't begrudge them for it. As I'll admit to even doing it a few times myself.
My reasoning is: lots of people are gunning for drops from later bosses. By leaving early, I just made somebody's day who queued hoping for an in progress run. -
02-06-2015, 03:00 AMFranSeara
I've started to leave WoB early mainly due to the lack of skilled players on runs. I've been in groups to couldnt beat the second boss. After re'Qing, restarting and rerunning WoB 10-15 times in 1 day, I'll take wantever I can get and get out. WoB on a bad day can take 1.5 hours to clear...ONCE. At this point, I find WoD not farm'able. "remeber just my opinion"
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02-06-2015, 03:02 AMMilesSaintboroguh
Really? Most people I get paired with fail at the first boss or the final boss.
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02-06-2015, 03:07 AMFranSearaI've been in 8 groups that couldn't beat the 2nd boss, all ending in vote adandon. One day, it took me 6 Q's to clear the 2nd boss. I got the healers coat and left...... I wanted the Blm coat. I may never make it to the last boss to get my BLM coat at this rate.....lolQuote:
Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh
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02-06-2015, 07:25 AMNestama23, actually.Quote:
Originally Posted by kiotsukete
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02-06-2015, 07:44 AMNyalia
I love it when people leave early, allowing me to join in progress. The loot I want is mostly dropped by Cerby, and if I join in progress after Cerby, chances are high that I'll get locked out from the final fight. That lets me go watch netflix for 5 minutes and get free light, 40 sold, and 20 poe for doing so. Totally worth it. The final fight is really fun too, especially when you screw around with BLM tricks (manaward to take nothing from meteors, aetherial manip if you're in the middle when she teleports, scathe with crazy spellspeed and UI up to tear through the Shadowlurkers, etc).
When people leave in progress, they're generally the people who are less dedicated to the run and generally worse players than the people who replace them. Most people that I've seen farming the first or second boss for gear to use in FCoB ignore mechanics and just try to burn everything down and drag out the raid by doing so. I love it when they leave. Also, over half of the people I've seen doing it are BRDs who refuse to sing, making them just low DPS DPS. Four BRDs one run - no foes, no ballard. Three of them left after the first boss (farming for the BRD hat, which is really nice (crit main, acc second, much much better than Ironworks (acc/det) or Dreadwyrm (ss/crit))).
The run went much smoother after that point. -
02-06-2015, 09:23 AMMilesSaintboroguhBut you're not rolling against 23 people. Each alliance has their own loot to roll for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nestama
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02-06-2015, 09:30 AMKerwinYa I do the same for the your exact reasons. Get any piece of gear and then leave. This tower crap is going to be replaced anyways just like the two towers before. Nothing new here.Quote:
Originally Posted by FranSeara
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02-06-2015, 10:07 AMNestamaThey changed that for the Puff of Darkness?Quote:
Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh
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02-06-2015, 10:42 AMIts_Elodie
Lmao. You all are talking about groups that can't make it to the first boss. I had a group last night that wiped on the first mob. I ran wod 20 times and had a friend que with me so I could get the healer gloves, belt, or skirt when they dropped since he already got monk gear this week for his monk. Multiple wipes on bosses and mobs leading to hour long runs, only seeing a few types of gear drop for classes you don't want, the general troll fest that is raiding in the towers, that stupid minion dropping 3 times in 30+ runs. I can see why people drop, and I can't blame them one bit. Just getting my piece of loot for the week from there has been enough punishment for me.
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02-06-2015, 11:20 AMAlistaireIt's a minion. Hell, most of the armor drops on last boss aren't enough incentive to stay through the derpfest that seems to be getting worse instead of better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiramu
No, they're just mistaken. You do roll vs 23 other people for that and the syrcus shard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nestama
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02-06-2015, 11:34 AMAmiraa
http://i58.tinypic.com/2rgl7xj.jpg
whatever loot i could greed/need and leave the f-out of hell hole
Its so awful to DF WoD really i don't even blame people ditching run once they get the loot , its horrible to even stick around with afkers expecting u to do all the hard work lol. -
02-06-2015, 02:17 PMLunaHoshinoThis is exactly why I don't have a problem with it. I like queueing for in progress runs after I've already gotten my weekly loot in the hopes that the minion will drop. The person leaving got their loot, I get my chance at the minion without having to run all of WoD. Win-win for everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by kiotsukete
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02-06-2015, 02:28 PMSakuraluna
Meh... they do seem to drop a lot, at least one per boss fight but parties fill up again pretty quick so I don't see it as an issue. I don't think I've ever even had time to hit the Replenish Ranks window that pops up before we're already back at full party again. Only time it really effects anyone is if there's no one waiting to fill the spots so the group gets forced to try and finish the instance a few short, but otherwise if they want to come and go then whatev.
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02-06-2015, 02:30 PMLycelle
I got my last piece from WoD I don't need to go back into that hell hole. Puff of Darkness, yeah it's cute, but she ain't beating my Spriggan Minion+Spriggan Hat combo. SPRRIGAN'S FOR LIFE! But in all seriousness, my wife and I who both queue'd in as Healers have dropped from WoD due to people being dumb on Cerberus, we ended up getting a shit group that would just hold the chains instead of bringing them in to Cerberus. -_-
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02-06-2015, 04:33 PMkiotsuketeAwesome, so even less incentive to stay to the end.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nestama
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02-06-2015, 10:58 PMSanghelios
I think its understandable that ppl do leave WoD, after they didnt got what they wanted. Lets say you need a item from first/second boss, thats usually 10 minutes of work. I dont see a reason why someone should stay for 45 minutes until the final boss is down. Puff of Darkness drops almost never and if, you have a 1/24 chance for it, wich is kinda nothing. And since ppl who want gear do have to run multiple times anyway, i would much more like to spend 10 tries a 10 minutes rather than 10 tries a 45 minutes for my weekly loot.
And thats actually why i join WoD only in progress as healer. Thats saves so just so much time. In case i dont get a in progress pop, i withdraw as soon as a new group is ready to start or almost ready with only 1-2 ppl left (You have around 3-5 seconds to withdraw because they group didnt got a server spot yet). Requeue and waiting for next in progress. Ususally only takes me 5 minutes at max to join in progress. And since i dont get a penalty for leaving WoD because i joined in progress i can just go out if nothing did drop for me and get in next group again. -
02-07-2015, 01:36 AMKiara
What's kinda sad is that SE started WoD with just the Gear and Minion drop (and some pieces are BiS actually). That's good.
But by holding out the Carbontwines and Weapon Stones (for i130) until later, I predict when those finally get introduced, the vast majority of players will just [Pass] on all Equipment Loot and gun for the Final Chests for these Carbontwines and Stones only, LOL. So it'll become a major bottleneck in a few weeks or so. :(
It's like a double-edged sword. -
02-07-2015, 04:07 AMNyalia
I... really don't understand these horrible experiences people are having with WoD. In my last ~15 DF runs (I was spamming for light since queues were (relatively) super fast for DPS (I'd either instajoin in progress or wait ~3 minutes for a new party)), we one-shotted every boss except for two wipes on CoD. I've never seen a group wipe in all my ~30+ runs on the first or second boss, and certainly not on any of the trash. Cerberus was hard sometimes back when we were sending a single group inside if that group turned out to be bad, but once my datacenter started sending in all DPS from all teams, I've only wiped on Cerby once (person decided to wait until the last moment with the chain, healer healed them as they hit the fetter (being healed causes you to drop the fetter, if you weren't aware)).
Cloud is the only risky one still, but the vast majority of people on my datacenter don't use damage LBs and hold LB3 for tank or healer to save the raid. If people screw up clouds, tank LB3 when she speaks and you take very little damage even with six stacks. If people screw up meteors or hexagons, healer LB3 saves the day. If people screw up clouds and your tank doesn't LB3, another party (whose tank did LB3) revives one of your healers/bards and they LB3, picking up your entire team. In my last ~20 runs (I really did spam it...), I haven't been in a group that wiped twice vs. CoD. If we wiped once, people paid attention the second time to whatever wiped us and we were fine.
Are people really having this much trouble DFing WoD? How are they having this much trouble? The first boss has easily avoidable mechanics that are pretty intuitive to pick up (avoid giant glowing AoEs, switch from being in front/behind the boss after each two-color AoE, DPS the adds, don't look at the boss during Mortal Gaze (and if you do, run to the glowing circle like Qarn)). The second boss has mechanics that only a couple people need to pay attention to (someone stand in poison (orange AoE indicator - run in when it vanishes) and nuke the slime for poison immunity buff; kill prominences; when you see a fire tether on someone who isn't passing it on, you run and grab it, hold it for a sec, then pass it off to someone new; stack with purple indicator; don't hit anything after the entire area turns red (heatwave->pyretic)) so I don't understand how a small number of people not knowing the fight can wipe the raid (heck, most raid's I'm in, 90% of the raid ignores Pyretic and no one even dies since no other damage is going on at the same time). If you send all DPS inside for Cerby, you only have to worry about the competence of the DPS going inside correctly (not much of an issue these days), the 2x off-tanks in keeping the 3x Wolfsbanes off of the healers while the DPS are absent, and the healers in not healing people applying the fetters (fetters are generally applied while there's no one to fight, so everyone should be topped off already anyway).
There are tons of mechanics in WoD that are designed such that not everyone has to react to stop instawipe mechanics. This isn't ST with the Clockwork Squires where one tank not knowing what to do wipes the raid, or Scylla where the majority of the raid has to be on the ball to keep people unfrozen and get enough on the pads. An entire group can screw up CoD's hexagons and you're fine (two is bad news though). Meteors come in groups of 3-5 until the end. Abandonment and the fire tether can both be handled by either the victim reacting or another person reacting, as opposed to Scylla's ice orbs. If someone runs off with the purple indicator on the second boss, only they suffer, unlike when someone runs off with Imperium during the Xande fight. Only two people need to handle Cerby's chains, only one person needs to handle Five Headed Dragon's poison pools.
Also, compare the Atmos trash in WoD with the Atmos trash in LotA. In the WoD fight, most people I raid with in DF still don't have a clue about how the mechanics work (if you get the indicator, jump off so you can't get sucked in; if you see someone else get targeted, be on the other side of Atmos than them; when Atmos starts casting Shockwave, stack on him to avoid falling off; touch glowing circles up top to let other teams get back up top), and yet I've never seen a group wipe there, ever. In LotA, groups still wipe there despite the vast majority knowing the mechanics and almost everyone being insanely overgeared for the fights. One person constantly stepping off their pad (or refusing to step on it in the first place) or the OT not pulling adds (or, worse, directing the adds' AoEs at the pad) can wipe the whole raid.
SE seems to have designed WoD with the lessons they learned from how people played through LotA and ST. They de-emphasized mechanics that everyone must know and react to, increased the prevalence of untargeted mechanics that can be resolved by just 1-3 people, and added targeted mechanics that multiple people can handle (including the target). There are also very few DPS checks and no difficult ones if everyone is alive (hexagons can be hard if your DPS is low and half your team went to the wrong place, but it's not an instawipe if one group screws up). -
02-07-2015, 04:46 AMNorthernLadMSP
People ditch when they get their items, and they ditch when their items don't drop. If you want to leave and take the penalty, cool no big deal. But, what really pisses me off are the people that "oh-so-mysteriously disconnect," just so that the party kicks them for being "offline" and they get away with ditching with no penalty.
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02-07-2015, 06:48 AMThirdChild_ZKI
Knowing the piece I want most (the BRD top) drops from 5-Heads, it's pretty frustrating to stick around for the rest. . . even more so that I've never seen it drop in all my runs since it was introduced. But I try to stick with it anyways if the group I'm in is fairly decent. I got the tank and MNK body pieces that way.
I'm not saying it's okay to drop, but sometimes you've got to know when to cut your losses and choose whether your time would be better spent doing other things as you wait out the penalty rather than stick with a toxic group and get almost nothing out of it later. -
02-07-2015, 08:25 AMNyalia
Just out of curiosity, why does people dropping bother people? Unless it's on Cerby, following a boss there's a trash pull where you don't need everyone to burn through it. During the trash, you'll fill the missing spot. I can see it being annoying when people drop after Cerby because that results in a wait, but on the other two bosses, how does it negatively impact your run when others drop?
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02-07-2015, 08:36 AMThe_Last_Dragoon
There will come a day when no one picks up any gear since they're trying to get the Weapon tomes, carbontwine, etc. This will make it easier to obtain the gear the bosses drop, though at that point most people only roll on them for aesthetic purposes. It would be a good idea to pick them up before the loot restriction on WoD is lifted though since at that point everyone who can will be need/greed rolling on the items.
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02-07-2015, 06:58 PMFoxyArekuYou mean like how they put carbontwine in hunts?Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaneDawn
*still bitter about that* -
02-10-2015, 10:57 AMfirstsin
I am just bored of running the towers with people who just want to get carried.
SE should just use a token system for loot. Win a token? Get a piece of loot you desire.
BTW you only get to see and roll on loot after the final boss.