Request: 3.0 Job Customizing

As it stands the only difference between two people playing the same job is gear, along with the 30 stat points to put in one of two stats actually needed by your job. We can customize greatly how we look, but why not how we play our jobs?

One of my favorite aspects of the Final Fantasy series has been character playstyle customization, most notably : FF5, FF7, FFT, and yes, FF11. (Thank you, Lexia.)

Why should we have the ability to customize our jobs?
Players could enjoy imagining fun, creative builds, even knowing that they may not be the perfect choices. Besides, those “perfect” builds may not work best for some players. The fun is finding what works best for you.

It would open up certain jobs to those who would never play because it is stuck with a single role. I know of plenty of people who would love to be a Paladin if only it weren't a tank role only. This would also solve many player’s gripes over the Dark Knight being categorized as a tank.

An added feature to the game that would draw in players on the fence or simply turned off by how simple or bland the jobs are.

False arguments against this funtastic idea:
1. “Choice is an Illusion.” If I understand correctly, this is one of three player types.
a) Those who are punished by difficult content to the point of needing perfect builds just to get by.
b) Players who want the very best set up so they can perform their best.
c) Those who haven’t the time, interest, or are scared to make their own decisions.

False. All of those players would chose to look up a premade optimal build to enhance their experience, effectively giving them but one choice. Nothing would change for them except the fact that they have made a decision.

2. “It would be hard for the devs to do.” More variables would lead to further imbalance, ultimately breaking the game.

False. The challenge would be greater, though I still wouldn't argue this when we have the some of the most talented devs in the world working on this game. There are other games out there with a balanced custom class system in place. There’s no reason SE couldn't do it and do it better!

3. “The mess that’s already the Duty Finder would only get worse. People who have made poor choices may potentially join the DF keeping me from completing content."

False. This is a self-inflicted wound whereas the more difficult content in any MMO should not be attempted with random players. If they are struggling in a low dungeon, a little kind advice goes a long way and completion would be possible. As I see it, if you're so against it then DF should be a last resort, not your primary go-to for content completion. Try the Party Finder. Join an active FC. Go make some friends who share your playstyle and have fun again. IMO that is the true spirit of the MMO.

Ultimately it is up to SE on if and how to implement such a feature, though I’d like to throw out some suggestions:

A combination of FFXI and ARR:
Pick a subjob or a combination of two where the player may take most of the lvl 1-30 abilities. (with a 5-10 cross-skill maximum)

More fun with Traits:
Sure we could cross-class them, but what about adding trait materia? Most equipment would have 1 or 2 trait slots which anyone could socket no matter the profession.

Talent Trees: (Yes I know they’re cliché, though anything would be an improvement.)
(WHM)
+1-5 points to raise all magic healing potency 1-5%
+1-5 points to reduce casting time by 5-25%
+1-3 points to increase Cure 2 potency by 5-15%
+1-2 points to increase max MP by 5-10%... and on and on.

FF9 inspired system
Instead of learning abilities from equipped armor as it was in FF9, why not add traits, buffs, and various ability upgrades by spiritbonding lvl 51-60 gear. The bonuses could be attached to the gear or they could be attained from the gear.

The first option would make just simple stat comparisons to armor a thing of the past and add another deciding factor to player choice. An example for a healer would be: One piece of fear has a trait that gives + 3% increase in healing potency while the other piece of gear has a trait which makes Esuna or Leeches a party-wide ability.

The other option would award the player the bonus after spiritbond, and then could be slotted as a bonus trait for the player's job regardless of weather or not the player has the piece equipped. There would only be a limited amount of slots available to keep a player from becoming too powerful.

This would be a meaningful way we could have alternate builds for our jobs.

Extreme/1.0:
Allow jobs access to something around 75% of all abilities in the game, barring certain abilities which define the job. Or in other words; keep locked all skills associated with jobs as they are now, then open up all current class skills to every job. An example would be: Benediction would only be usable by a White Mage, while stoneskin, cure 2, medica, and protect usable by all jobs as long as they have leveled the required job to the appropriate level. WHM still has the improved stoneskin and protect traits as well as the piety and mind to keep its place as the main healer, while other jobs gain a little more versatility or flavor as I prefer to call it. (side note: I love both the FF series since its origins and MMO’s in general. I have played FF14 1.0, briefly. The reason why my friends and I stopped playing wasn’t the class system at that point, it was the frustration of a clunky UI and battle system so bad that I had lost faith in the franchise. ARR fixed most of that, here’s hoping the game gets even better!)

Something I've forgotten? Agree, disagree, or agree to disagree? Then I want to hear more from the community. An official statement on the subject would also be much appreciated.

If anyone can come up with more suggestions on how SE could go about implementing such a system, please post here and I will add it to my original post with proper credit given, of course. :D

Tl;dr? If you support more freedom of choice as to your job's playstyle in any way, please give a "like" and comment to get some attention to this issue. Thank you for your comments and support!

Job customization has to do with making the player character stronger instead of getting better equipment. That's more for tablet and cell phone MMO's it won't work for a AAA MMO like Final Fantasy XIV A Realm Reborn. The Balancing issue alone would be a nightmare because they have to adjust difficulty of content for all those builds. I'll think of more !reasons! why job customization is a bad idea later.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

I'll think of more !reasons! why job customization is a bad idea later.

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Someone will do the math and figure out the best skill/stats to use and everybody will follow, like we already do with gear. People keep asking for more viariety but then only follow one road anyway.

True, and unless they throw away the current system and redevelop it you would never be able to make a dps from tank class.
The built in enimity generation alone would prevent this.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Job customization has to do with making the player character stronger instead of getting better equipment. That's more for tablet and cell phone MMO's it won't work for a AAA MMO like Final Fantasy XIV A Realm Reborn. The Balancing issue alone would be a nightmare because they have to adjust difficulty of content for all those builds. I'll think of more !reasons! why job customization is a bad idea later.

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So you're saying that WoW was never a AAA MMO? In vanilla and TBC I remember Paladins and Warriors being viable dps options as well as tanks, and shadow priests with staggering damage output. I also remember classes in that game were fairly well balanced in PVE and PVP. Saying something would be hard to do is a poor excuse for giving up on an idea. It can be done, it has been done, and I have a feeling SE could do it better!

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Originally Posted by Moqi

Someone will do the math and figure out the best skill/stats to use and everybody will follow, like we already do with gear. People keep asking for more viariety but then only follow one road anyway.

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As I've already stated in my post, there will always be those who look up and go by what is considered the "best build." That's their decision. The rest of us can enjoy the freedom of coming up with our own builds. Also just because something is considered the best build doesn't always make it the best, in other words; an alternate build may be a better fit for a particular player's playstyle, allowing them to be more efficient playing their job in their own way.

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Originally Posted by Cuervo78

True, and unless they throw away the current system and redevelop it you would never be able to make a dps from tank class.
The built in enimity generation alone would prevent this.

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With no classes required for the 3 new jobs, here's hoping they are throwing away the current system.

They're not - the current Armoury System is clearly staying. We know so little about the three new Jobs at the moment so anything discussed is just speculation. But I can honestly say the current class/Job system is staying as is more or less (after all, why implement ROG and NIN like existing classes if they were just going to scrap that a few months later?).

And both Moqi and Akiza already mentioned the reason why your suggestion would not work so I'm not going to add anything further other than saying I agree fully with what they said.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

(after all, why implement ROG and NIN like existing classes if they were just going to scrap that a few months later?).

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Easy: To fit the current system until an overhaul. Aren't you curious as to why ROG/NIN skills aren't available to other jobs for cross-class? My guess would be they didn't want to bother balancing it for a soon to be rebuilt system come 3.0. And you're right about one thing: It's all speculation, but that doesn't mean suggestions for change can't be made right now.

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Originally Posted by LandricFrey

Aren't you curious as to why ROG/NIN skills aren't available for cross-class?

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bad guess, they are available to cross class if you use a class.




anyway, what I'd like to see in a more FF-esque job system, with primary job commands and secondary job commands (like in FFT, or bravely default).

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

bad guess, they are available to cross class if you use a class.

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I'm sorry if I was unclear, but what I meant was that other jobs cannot use any of the ROG/NIN abilities. I shall make an edit to clarify.

You seem to desire a more complex job system as well. Please "like" and maybe we can make a change. Thank you for your support. :)

You know i would like to see something like this as well. I would like to see more player agency in their characters, and choices to be made on individual playstyles. It would be good to see traits that players had to choose between, as well as set bonuses etc on armour. It would be far more interesting if on the next relic in 3.0, unique bonuses could be put on them. Its time SE allowed players to make choices rather than continue with the attitude which is more akin to hand holding when it comes to cross class skills, bonus attribute points, bonuses on weapons and armour etc. Lett he player make choices, we will make mistakes, but hey, thats part of the fun of playing Final Fantasy games :).

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Originally Posted by LandricFrey

As I've already stated in my post, there will always be those who look up and go by what is considered the "best build." That's their decision. The rest of us can enjoy the freedom of coming up with our own builds. Also just because something is considered the best build doesn't always make it the best, in other words; an alternate build may be a better fit for a particular player's playstyle, allowing them to be more efficient playing their job in their own way.

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I'm a WHM and stack spell speed. Half of these forums is probably barfing right now. Remember that guy who put parry on his DRG relic and everyone laughed at him? Yeah... the little choice we have is already ignored. There'll be a dozen people at most with unique sets. With more jobs we may have a more choices in cross-class skills but that'd be the exent of it hopefully.

Also:

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I know of plenty of people who would love to be a Paladin if only it weren't a tank role only.

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I chose WHM because I like to heal, so I looked up what jobs had that role and picked the one I liked the most, not the other way around. How can you want to be a Paladin and dps? If all jobs can do anything you might as well just ask for glamour restrictions to be lifted. If I wanna be a WHM that DPS... I'd play BLM because that's what I'd be. If you are a DPS paladin aren't you just a ninja with a paladin glamour on? I don't get it. If you don't want to tank why'd you want to be a paladin besides aesthetics?

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Originally Posted by Moqi

How can you want to be a Paladin and dps?

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People may want to be a sword wielding, cool armor wearing job without the stress of being forced to tank. Think of how many people it would please if DRK had the option of dps? Obviously there would be a trade off of dps for the added survivability of heavy armor, but at least it opens up some options.

So you just want glamour options, unless you're expecting SE to make skills for every class for every role. If you're gonna use all cross-class melee dps skill you might as well play one drg, mnk or nin and glamour paladin gear on. Why would I want a shitty healer with high defenses and a squishy tank who can't take hits but is able to cast thunder II?

I agree For this

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Originally Posted by Moqi

So you just want glamour options, unless you're expecting SE to make skills for every class for every role. If you're gonna use all cross-class melee dps skill you might as well play one drg, mnk or nin and glamour paladin gear on. Why would I want a shitty healer with high defenses and a squishy tank who can't take hits but is able to cast thunder II?

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Usually how this is done is the player would have most of the base skills for their job and SE add 3-5 skills/traits/buffs for any chosen role designed to allow the player to succeed in that role. You, for instance, would most likely chose a "pure healer," no one would touch your restorative power and you could take pride in that. I would play something that gives my sch more damage output since I can easily heal most dungeons. And that is only one option they could go with.

My point is to customize. They could make a dps still a dps just in a different way. BLM that "specialize" in Fire Ice or Lighting.(get rid of the current"fire does more dmg, while ice heals mp setup, that is boring and makes healing MP pots worthless) Maybe fire could stack high dots, Ice could have CC effects, and Lightning do large amounts of single target damage.

I already gave some examples of how to implement job customizing in my first post. It doesn't have to be the Extreme/1.0 setup you despise.

Dungeons are easy to heal or tank. If Alexander doesn't require a pure healer to keep everyone alive no one's gonna want to play with me when they can get someone who can heal and do more damage and viceversa. However you make it someone's gonna be left out in favour of more "optimal" builds.

Your less extreme options sounds like you just want more cross-class skills which is what may happen already in 3.0 as more jobs are introduced. But if you want to break out of your role, you have to balance everything around any possible combinations, or using duty finder will be impossible. Dungeons are designed so that any two dps classes can pass all checks. What happens if you get into a dungeon and your dps and tanks decided to keep their tanking/dps skills at a minimum and throw everything else into healing?

Love & Support This:

Not sure why so many people seem to be on the fence/against it. WoW & FFXI both have these features, but it seems like its a new concept or something lol...

WoW:
Paladin, Monk = Heal, DPS, Tank
Rogue = Pure DPS (still had different trees to customize play style)
Shaman, Priest = DPS, Heals
etc...

FFXI: (Sub-Job System)
This stuck more to the main theme of triad (tank,dps,heals) but still offered huge gear/merit point options to build your character how you saw fit

Ninja = Were numerous evasion builds and was a tank for a lot of content, then switch your gear to STR/Acc stats and now I am a viable DPS
Red Mage = So many builds arose around this class and became well known for solo capability
Paladin = While this did hold true to being a Tank, you could still put on your DPS gear with a giant broadsword and go kill things if you choose to do so, you had those options available

Note: Even classes such as ROG/NIN that are obviously stuck in a DPS role could have weapon choices down the road just as one example.

Example: I would like the option to chose between different weapons:

Swords = Low Attack Speed, Higher Damage
Katana's = Medium Attack Speed, Lower Damage
Daggers = High Attack Speed, Very Low Damage

If I like to see bigger damage numbers I will choose swords. If I prefer a high attack speed style of play I will choose katana or daggers. This is just one small example of something plausible in the future.

I myself am one who looks up the most efficient builds and plays that build for the relevant content (dungeons/raids). Do I still want the option to have a different gear set for soloing or random goofing around? HELL YA!

I think the biggest issue with these changes is that the game is still so very young and often times I think that is forgotten. It will take years before this game is polished. WoW & FFXI have had such a long time to grow and improve and I think we will be playing a very different FF14 5 years from now.

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Originally Posted by Moqi

no one's gonna want to play with me when they can get someone who can heal and do more damage

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Sounds like you need some better friends.

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Originally Posted by Moqi

Dungeons are designed so that any two dps classes can pass all checks.

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You're looking at it as the game is designed now. They can design new content so that "just doing as much dps as you can" isn't a strategy. And I'm being generous by calling that a strategy for a boss battle. I would like to see battles where each individual needs to put more effort into keeping themselves up, adding debuffs to mobs that actually mean something, crowd control, and more obvious player manipulated mechanics to avoid damage. It is possible to make a boss battle challenging without requiring a Youtube video or a PowerPoint presentation, but that's an issue for another thread.

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Originally Posted by Levis

Not sure why so many people seem to be on the fence/against it. WoW & FFXI both have these features, but it seems like its a new concept or something lol...

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Exactly!

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Originally Posted by Levis

I myself am one who looks up the most efficient builds and plays that build for the relevant content (dungeons/raids). Do I still want the option to have a different gear set for soloing or random goofing around? HELL YA!

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This is what I'm all about, thank you!

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Originally Posted by Levis

I think the biggest issue with these changes is that the game is still so very young and often times I think that is forgotten. It will take years before this game is polished. WoW & FFXI have had such a long time to grow and improve and I think we will be playing a very different FF14 5 years from now.

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Right you are. We just need to nudge them in the right direction. :)

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Originally Posted by LandricFrey

Sounds like you need some better friends.

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I am not talking about myself. There are plenty of people who have to rely on PF/DF for everything.

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I would like to see battles where each individual needs to put more effort into keeping themselves up, adding debuffs to mobs that actually mean something, crowd control, and more obvious player manipulated mechanics to avoid damage.

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It sounds like it's just gonna dilute my job. Not that exciting.

Job customization is how the class and job system should work anyways.

The Class should be base skills that each disciple of war and magic should have.
The Job should be specialized talent trees within each class having skills that are unique to each individual job.

I would love to see jobs customization too! What if they left the classes but you can level them till you reach level 10, learning the basics, after that you choose a spec or a job specialization that will change your traits and main weapons with skill effects. For example:
Rogue Lv.10 -----> you choose between Ninja (katana), Thief (daggers), Sky pirate (sword + knife?)
Each job will have different stats(Thief on speed and crit, Ninja crit and medium speed and Sky pirate det and crit)
This is just an example, could be done in, if not all, most of the current classes and give them a sense to be there. BUT! I know could be a lot of work for the devs and wont happen :(

I play The Secret World or have been, one of the things I loved about that mmo, was the ability to use any weapon combination and the choice of 500 or more skills which you can swap out depending on the type of mobs you are fighting. Or if your going solo or in a party. They also had simple premade builds you could use if you didn't want to figure it out on your own. I would love to see what you suggested. I put up another post that is similar only that it goes along the lines of changing the ilevel system to a more "living" gear system. Instead of the constant grind to upgrade gear to keep up with new patches, it would be replaced with something akin to what the new expansion for Guild Wars 2 is attempting to do, though as you state, SE could do it better.

Oh and i hope to see Determination reworked. It destroys builds variety

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Originally Posted by Noelzzz

Oh and i hope to see Determination reworked. It destroys builds variety

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how so ? It's just a flat damage/heal increase...

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Originally Posted by Lainmyst

...changing the ilevel system to a more "living" gear system. Instead of the constant grind to upgrade gear to keep up with new patches...

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I would love something like this. It gets me thinking of another suggestion to add to my list. It could work similar to FF9 where each piece of gear past lvl 50 will have traits to improve abilities. Once spiritbonded it becomes active or perhaps you unlock that trait and you can slot it to your character. Of course the amount of slotted traits would be limited so you couldn't just throw on everything and be superhuman.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

how so ? It's just a flat damage/heal increase...

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That's why i think it destroys variety.. till will have det working as it is now all other stats will come after determination no matter the jobs you play

My stats shouldn't be overwhelmingly determined by my gear. A naked level 50 char should still have plenty of inherent power from the just that fact that it LEVELED 49 times. I am tired of this whole, "customize your character through gear!" mantra. Gear should offer basics such as physical and magical defense. The addition of stats to gear should be rare, gear is made to protect your being, additional stats on gear should be what makes it legendary. I want more player stat growth based on leveling, not coil runs and loot. Two ilvl 120 gear items shouldn't have the ability to totally re-purpose your character, that is what normal leveling is for.

Examples: My miner gets better everyday because he gains exp and levels often. His ability to mine certain materials should get easier with time, not because he went to market and bought a nice hat which magically makes his eyes work better and increases his ability to mine.

My Black Mage worked hard everyday learning his new spells, but no matter how maxed out his level, he was utterly confused that the unless he bought some nice shit from the market board or went on suicidal coil runs that his knowledge was worthless. WOW, this new belt really makes it easier to aim my spells with more accuracy, YEAH, that totally makes sense. See how it allows my hips to rotate smoothly during my spellcast, couldn't possibly have learned that while leveling my character. These elite techniques are only reachable if you got the latest fashions, otherwise you're just not gud.

Point: High focused gear stats are ridiculous and make the entire ilvl system look outlandish. Oops, Sephiroth forgot to put on his new allagan robe, now Cloud doesn't need to worry because his buddy downtown is ilvl 130.

If this game goes on for 3, 4, 5 years or more with this stupid system in play, I should probably start saving up for my future ilvl 400 gear, because that is the moronic system that SE seems to have set up.

The gear grind is it part of every MMO and developer haven't replaced that system yet. There two types of end game progression the gear grind and increasing the innate power of the player character abilities.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

The gear grind is it part of every MMO and developer haven't replaced that system yet. There two types of end game progression the gear grind and increasing the innate power of the player character abilities.

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The reason I responded to this thread is, this is changing with the first expansion for Guild Wars 2. One of the big changes they have been talking about is the idea of leveling gear via skills you can get, in this case a new npc race I believe will give you different skills to level up or increase your gear's abilities. Even though this is just one game, I would hope there is movement in this direction for other games including this one.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

how so ? It's just a flat damage/heal increase...

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Because there are auto-crit abilities on which Crit is wasted while Det instead increases their bonuses and for its added reliability, it is the top stat for all jobs except Black Mage or where a class/lob mechanic gives an abnormally high reliance on Crit (Bloodletter and Adlo). Due to Det's higher price (less Det than Crit/SS/Acc on a given piece of same ilvl gear if the other secondary was identical at an identical amount), critical strike may still edge it out very slightly on Ninja and possibly DRG (less so since LS's CD reduc), especially if the Det value is already high, thereby increasing the worth of other stats, but that's about it. It's an altogether excellent stat, whereas only BLM can make real use of Speed and Crit can go to waste or perform unreliably (Monk; tanks and healers).

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Job customization is how the class and job system should work anyways.

The Class should be base skills that each disciple of war and magic should have.
The Job should be specialized talent trees within each class having skills that are unique to each individual job.

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You say "customization" but they only exist as stepping stones and the real form respectively. Without classes being at least situationally viable, jobs are not a form of customization in their own right. And even if they were made viable, you'd be given the option of a full set of tools to a certain purpose and the 'full set minus 5 abilities', with an absolutely haphazard pick of abilities in place of those 5. That does not make for an especially interesting playstyle (especially given cross-class skills in their current form).

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Originally Posted by IsaacDamodred

My stats shouldn't be overwhelmingly determined by my gear. A naked level 50 char should still have plenty of inherent power from the just that fact that it LEVELED 49 times.

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I have to agree with you, but at the same time I feel obliged to note how little time is spent leveling a character to cap compared to the time spent after that. Without a new system in place (say... AP, as opposed to XP) that does not cap, gear will have to be the measure of that continued play after cap, rather than xp.

...Here's hoping for said system, then?

(That said, this, much like an unchangeable set of bonus attributes, would lack the versatility of multiple gear choices for someone who has multiple top ilvl gear sets. It would aid consistency and the gear dependence a bit less ridiculous, but, in the end, not necessarily customization. Something that bridges the gap between ilvls somewhat, allowing the use of a particular i100 piece for its secondary stats over an i120 piece, would probably be the most useful as far as "customization goes". But by now I'm just thinking to myself. Please ignore.)

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Job customization is how the class and job system should work anyways.

The Class should be base skills that each disciple of war and magic should have.
The Job should be specialized talent trees within each class having skills that are unique to each individual job.

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Before 2.0 they said classes would be versatile for many different situations while Jobs were "specialized" for very specific content. This never worked, for two major reasons:
1) Instead of reducing some stats while raising others, the Job Soul Crystal only adds stats to the Job, making it superior to its class counterpart.
2) The selection of cross-class skills usable by classes can't compare to the game-changing abilities Jobs get, once again, making the job superior.

I like your idea. I think this system can still be salvaged, but I'd rather they just get rid of these "classes" that IMO, don't belong in the FF universe. Same skills from level 1-50 with the only exception being Scholar and Summoner needing extra attention to properly differentiate the two.

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Originally Posted by LandricFrey

So you're saying that WoW was never a AAA MMO? In vanilla and TBC I remember Paladins and Warriors being viable dps options as well as tanks, and shadow priests with staggering damage output. I also remember classes in that game were fairly well balanced in PVE and PVP. Saying something would be hard to do is a poor excuse for giving up on an idea. It can be done, it has been done, and I have a feeling SE could do it better!

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Sorry, you got me on "in vanilla and TBC WoW, PALADINS and Warriors were viable options for dps aside from tanking".

You sir lived in your own delusions then. While a Warrior could be optimal, PALADINS were pure crap, both in tanking and especially dps during the first 4 years of WoW. They were only viable for Single Target Healing and more than anything buffing Blessing of Kings. Shadow Priests on the other hand provided more raid utility by offering life leeching and mana aside from a decent damage too.

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Originally Posted by BlueThunder

Sorry, you got me on "in vanilla and TBC WoW, PALADINS and Warriors were viable options for dps aside from tanking".

You sir lived in your own delusions then. While a Warrior could be optimal, PALADINS were pure crap, both in tanking and especially dps during the first 4 years of WoW. They were only viable for Single Target Healing and more than anything buffing Blessing of Kings. Shadow Priests on the other hand provided more raid utility by offering life leeching and mana aside from a decent damage too.

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You're missing the point. The fact that all classes could successfully take on different roles is the main focus here. I said they were "viable" not the very best. I healed and/or dps on shamans, druids, and priests in any situation it worked. If it was a raid, maybe a certain healer or tank wouldn't be the best option, but that person would be the Off-tank or support healer. It worked.

Talent tree's in that game allowed a simple form of job customization by either letting you chose you group role or how you manage your damage, and even though that is the simplest and most cliche suggestion, it's still better than nothing IMO.

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Originally Posted by LandricFrey

snip.

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I'm not missing the point, and I know what giving each class "talent trees" will cause in the future. I spent 9 years on WoW to see how much damage it causes the massive amount of cries because X talent tree of Y class is Z powerful or not, which Blizzard always handled by buffing and nerfing here and there all over the place, causing big unbalance at all sides 90% of the time.

And there was no Uniqueness in WoW anyways, everybody would follow a predetermined good build of talents, so your point is completely invalid. Those who would try something of their liking and bizzarre would get rejected because their choice was very poor and not the standard to follow. Even now that talent trees have vanished into a certain amount of skills you can choose of your liking, people will pick up those that work best anyways.

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Originally Posted by BlueThunder

And there was no Uniqueness in WoW anyways, everybody would follow a predetermined good build of talents, so your point is completely invalid. Those who would try something of their liking and bizzarre would get rejected because their choice was very poor and not the standard to follow. Even now that talent trees have vanished into a certain amount of skills you can choose of your liking, people will pick up those that work best anyways.

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I've already covered this...

False arguments against this funtastic idea:
1. “Choice is an Illusion.”
False. Those players would chose to look up a premade optimal build to enhance their experience, effectively giving them but one choice. Nothing would change for them except the fact that they have made a decision. Also just because something is considered the best build doesn't always make it the best, in other words; an alternate build may be a better fit for a particular player's playstyle, allowing them to be more efficient playing their job in their own way.

The rest of us can enjoy coming up with creative builds of our own, for solo, group, or just for fun. I don't know about you, but I have good friends who would play with me no matter what playstyle I choose.

And no MMO is perfectly balanced, not even one as simple as this one.

FYI: The Talent Tree system is my least favorite suggestion as I think it is a cliche for the genre, but as I've stated in my original post; better than nothing.