Can we get a new dungeon?

Square-Enix said we would be getting new content with each patch yet we get the same content over and over and over with each patch.

This game revolves almost entirely behind doing a dungeon and getting tomes yet the only viable (spamable) type content is dungeons.

Each patch we get 3 extremely similar dungeons that are not only similar to each other but similar to the previous dungeons we had falling back all the way to the very first dungeon Sastasha at level 15.

Current dungeons:
-kill mobs
-kill sub boss
-kill mobs
-kill sub boss
-kill mobs
-kill final boss

1.0 dungeons
-Separate into two groups
-kill mobs at the same time as your other team
-/walk sneak past enemies
-find real treasure (AF pieces were hidden within dungeons)
-speed run to get rare and special gear

etc etc

why cant we have similar things?

I KNOW THE DEVELOPMENT TEAM WANTS THINGS TO BE SUPER EASY AND EASY TO UNDERSTAND SO THERE ISNT A CHALLENGE TO DUNGEONS.

BUT:

why cant we have dungeons where:

-DPS and tank/healer split up to run a little hard hitting section
(like the dps have to burn down mobs in order to progress can still be easy but it breaks up the monotony of the SAAAMMEEE freaking crap over and over, and tank and healer go through mobs that hit hard.)

-REAL TREASURE you can even put it after the final boss, where if you keep going you can obtain a chest that drops 2000+ gil PER player, or that drops darkmatter like in 1.0

-Place very powerful enemies in side tunnels/rooms that drop additional tomes that is only accessible to preformed parties

-place powerful enemies that you have to /walk past or else you get 1 shot like in 1.0

-Give a chance at additional tomes if the dungeon is run swiftly no matter if its someones first time or not, something to add spice you know different not copypastaallthethings.

(take note these are MY ideas, and are pulled out of my rear end in the matter of 15 seconds typing up this thread, if you dont like them by all means thats fine i dont know even if i do or not but dont be a little annoying prick and pull apart my thread, instead make your own suggestions this is what the forums are for, making suggestions not acting like little children arguing cause my opinion is not your opinon.)

SOMETHING TO MAKE THEM DIFFERENT, ANYTHING!!!!

Seriously. If we cant have guildhests, leves, skirmish, hamlet, chocobo caravan, literally NOTHING else besides dungeons to obtain tomes in mass quantities for the love of Eorzea please add some spice.

Thank you.

I personally feel if dungeons and even other content in this game had purpose and meaning and variety less people would be focused on

"how fast"

or

"how much to pull"

or

"skip cutscene"

or not if the dungeons had a purpose besides "fill me up with party memebers so i can go get my tomes."

If they had purpose and meaning outside of just getting tomes and had variety i feel people would be more likely to get along and focus on having fun instead of criticizing every minute thing they can possibly think of cause they would be focusing on the dungeon. The reason we just queue up and gogogogo is cause literally we are doing the same thing we have done since level 15.

Time to change it up maybe?

I would love to be more interested in the dungeon that I'm running, and would love to see more mechanics in the run. But complicating the mechanics will increase the margin of error, and by extension, will increase the toxicity of the community. How many CT runs have you been on where you wipe on King Behemoth, and then the parade of "WTF HOW DO YOU ALL SUCK SO BAD" messages begins?

And honestly, I'm not even totally convinced that the player base would enjoy these dungeons. These days, most DF parties devolve into brute forcing their way through fights and ignoring the mechanics that are there. (Pyretic on Five-Headed Dragon, for example, but that might still be an issue of ignorance rather than stubbornness)

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Originally Posted by Inflorescence

I would love to be more interested in the dungeon that I'm running, and would love to see more mechanics in the run. But complicating the mechanics will increase the margin of error, and by extension, will increase the toxicity of the community. How many CT runs have you been on where you wipe on King Behemoth, and then the parade of "WTF HOW DO YOU ALL SUCK SO BAD" messages begins?


And honestly, I'm not even totally convinced that the player base would enjoy these dungeons. These days, most DF parties devolve into brute forcing their way through fights and ignoring the mechanics that are there. (Pyretic on Five-Headed Dragon, for example, but that might still be an issue of ignorance rather than stubbornness)

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Very true, but not what i'm asking for at all really.

I'm not asking for more mechanics or more difficulty i'm asking for variety. I'm sure for as big of a company as Square-Enix it cant be difficult to come up with ideas for dungeons with an even slightly different lay out besides:

"kill mobs then a boss."

for literally every single dungeon in the entire game from level 15 till the game falls into the ground.

I mean......

This is Final Fantasy

There are hundreds of mini games, side quests, items and equipment beyond belief in every other iteration including Final Fantasy XI it blows my mind that after over 1 year of this game being on the market we still are running the exact same style dungeons for tomes.

The only thing they added was hunts a few patches back where you could get tomes in mass quantities outside of dungeons and literally everyone was doing them but Square-Enix didnt do anything to balance it. It seriously cant be that difficult to balance something besides a straight forward easy peasy dungeon can it??????!?!?!?!?!?!!?

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Originally Posted by Daniolaut

1.0 dungeons
-Separate into two groups
-kill mobs at the same time as your other team
-/walk sneak past enemies
-find real treasure (AF pieces were hidden within dungeons)
-speed run to get rare and special gear


-REAL TREASURE you can even put it after the final boss, where if you keep going you can obtain a chest that drops 2000+ gil PER player, or that drops darkmatter like in 1.0


-place powerful enemies that you have to /walk past or else you get 1 shot like in 1.0

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So you're saying, revert to 1.0?
You know what happened to 1.0, right?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sounders

So you're saying, revert to 1.0?
You know what happened to 1.0, right?

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The bad thing that happened in 1.0 was the dev team not listening to sh*t people said in Beta and beyond. Everything was ignored. It doesn't mean all ideas from 1.0 were bad, it was just crushed under the weight of incompetence that was the 1.0 feedback. to use the term, correlation does not imply causation. The flavor of 1.0 dungeons was a part of 1.0, but just because 1.0 failed doesnt mean it failed because of that.

A lot of what killed 1.0 is gone, including the people who killed it. I don't think bland, straight line, monotonous dungeons are an improvement. The game is playing itself Jon.. THE GAME IS PLAYING ITSELF JON.

Final Hallway XIV, straight lines only.

I agree with the OP here. But I also fear not matter what they did, optimal speedrunning will still be the king (and I dont dislike that), so all the extra stuff will probably be passed up in DF. I do wish that "Elixir" chests contained something not shit. Maybe just put Gil or chances at items in them... it would be nice if some of those side chests had a chance to drop more synth mats or gear. Could even throw in some mechanics like "Clear all adds in X hall in under 4 minutes to make Y boss drop 2/3 chests instead of 1/2"... rewards can be speed running friendly. It can work many ways.

I'd personally just kill for a dungeon that wasn't a straight line from A to B :|, but thats just me. But besides that, a lot of 1.0 ideas were good, just in a bad environment with a lead who didnt listen to play feedback at all. Though I must admit I think I'd of liked 1.0 better as a game if it continued to grow as it was and was around today, than I like 2.0 today. I think they threw away too many good ideas that could of used refining.

They will need to shake things up in 3.0. I really can't handle tome grinding anymore. I really don't expect game breaking changes in a 2.x patch, so I've just been patiently waiting for 3.0 and hope they will make the game a lot more interesting.

Trash in a dungeon isn't threatening anyway. I'd like to see more of what we saw in the last section of AK hard mode. Kill multiple waves quickly or die.

Probably they will get a clue in 3.0+ if not it'll be safe to say it'll forever be the same thing till next expac.

Considering what happened with the latest content patch they are leaning to more complex mechanics in fights and Coils has lots of mechanics that require communication and working together. WoD has some really entertaining mechanics but like somebody else said it leads to people who struggle to learn and fighting on runs. Day one of 2.5 part 1 had lots of people rage quitting content it got quite funny really. Then you look at the speed runners who will throw a fit over more complicated stuff that requires them to spend time farming instead of rushing through everything. You think they want to slowly sneak past mobs?

I think you can't please everyone i like the mechanics i think the WoD fights are more fun because of them. Debuff swap on first boss, Getting eaten by the Cerberus so you can smack it around on the inside so it's subdued and can be chained up. The heat debuff on Dragon that requires you to not move (Which still reks people because they somehow can't possibly stay still).

I'm sure they will keep coming up with new ideas for mechanics the OP exaggerates a bit on the content and what is involved. There are much more mechanics than in other games he just wants way more over complicated things. I think mechanics are fine as long as they are fun but when they go too far all it does is lead to bitching. Remember in the old days when people avoided Temple of Qarn while leveling because so many people struggled to understand what to do? XD.

Another issue with bogging dungeons down in tons of complicated mechanics is that while it may be fun at first to figure them out for some people after they are solved you are just repeating the same actions over and over and it becomes a nuisance to jump through hoops just to farm your quota of tomes and loot for the week.

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Originally Posted by MXMoondoggie

Considering what happened with the latest content patch they are leaning to more complex mechanics in fights and Coils has lots of mechanics that require communication and working together. WoD has some really entertaining mechanics but like somebody else said it leads to people who struggle to learn and fighting on runs. Day one of 2.5 part 1 had lots of people rage quitting content it got quite funny really. Then you look at the speed runners who will throw a fit over more complicated stuff that requires them to spend time farming instead of rushing through everything. You think they want to slowly sneak past mobs?


I think you can't please everyone i like the mechanics i think the WoD fights are more fun because of them. Debuff swap on first boss, Getting eaten by the Cerberus so you can smack it around on the inside so it's subdued and can be chained up. The heat debuff on Dragon that requires you to not move (Which still reks people because they somehow can't possibly stay still).

I'm sure they will keep coming up with new ideas for mechanics the OP exaggerates a bit on the content and what is involved. There are much more mechanics than in other games he just wants way more over complicated things. I think mechanics are fine as long as they are fun but when they go too far all it does is lead to bitching. Remember in the old days when people avoided Temple of Qarn while leveling because so many people struggled to understand what to do? XD.

Another issue with bogging dungeons down in tons of complicated mechanics is that while it may be fun at first to figure them out for some people after they are solved you are just repeating the same actions over and over and it becomes a nuisance to jump through hoops just to farm your quota of tomes and loot for the week.

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Again i'm not simply asking for "mechanics" i'm asking that the dungeons actually have flavor.

For example:

-rewarding paths beyond the final boss (thus are optional)
-chests that are actually worth while obtaining such as gil or darkmatter or crafting materials not a high potion.....
-optional bosses that grant additional tomes that are only accessible to premade parties.

Anything that can spice them up and break up the monotony.

Again if this is much too difficult to accomplish then I would like to see other viable PvE content in which you can farm for tomes besides just dungeons.

Personally i'm expecting probably too much from 3.0 and hoping to obtain tomes from the Golden Saucer but i am almost certain i will be let down again, but oh well. Cant hurt to ask.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sounders

So you're saying, revert to 1.0?
You know what happened to 1.0, right?

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No i was using 1.0 dungeons as an example. I'm simply asking for actually interesting dungeons (with chests that have something useful in them or a reason to run the dungeon outside of "farming tomes.")

or

If i cant get interesting dungeons, can we get something that also gives a viable option to dungeons to break up the highly extreme repetitiveness of spamming the same thing so long.

Look below for a more concise response:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BlaiseArath

The bad thing that happened in 1.0 was the dev team not listening to sh*t people said in Beta and beyond. Everything was ignored. It doesn't mean all ideas from 1.0 were bad, it was just crushed under the weight of incompetence that was the 1.0 feedback. to use the term, correlation does not imply causation. The flavor of 1.0 dungeons was a part of 1.0, but just because 1.0 failed doesnt mean it failed because of that.

A lot of what killed 1.0 is gone, including the people who killed it. I don't think bland, straight line, monotonous dungeons are an improvement. The game is playing itself Jon.. THE GAME IS PLAYING ITSELF JON.

Final Hallway XIV, straight lines only.

I agree with the OP here. But I also fear not matter what they did, optimal speedrunning will still be the king (and I dont dislike that), so all the extra stuff will probably be passed up in DF. I do wish that "Elixir" chests contained something not shit. Maybe just put Gil or chances at items in them... it would be nice if some of those side chests had a chance to drop more synth mats or gear. Could even throw in some mechanics like "Clear all adds in X hall in under 4 minutes to make Y boss drop 2/3 chests instead of 1/2"... rewards can be speed running friendly. It can work many ways.

I'd personally just kill for a dungeon that wasn't a straight line from A to B :|, but thats just me. But besides that, a lot of 1.0 ideas were good, just in a bad environment with a lead who didnt listen to play feedback at all. Though I must admit I think I'd of liked 1.0 better as a game if it continued to grow as it was and was around today, than I like 2.0 today. I think they threw away too many good ideas that could of used refining.

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Quote:

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-rewarding paths beyond the final boss (thus are optional)
-chests that are actually worth while obtaining such as gil or darkmatter or crafting materials not a high potion.....
-optional bosses that grant additional tomes that are only accessible to premade parties.

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Everyone's gonna skip them after day 2.

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Originally Posted by Moqi

Everyone's gonna skip them after day 2.

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Then they should go with my first suggestion:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...can-we-have-it

I'd love to get some hard dungeons SW style.

they'd ideally go something like
BOSS
BOSS
BOSS
BOSS
BOSS
BOSS

and no trash. these dungeons should be really freaking hard too.

I like the idea of side tunnels, and alternate routes to determine reward outcome. Pushing past the "last boss" in a duty to get to a "FINAL BOSS" would kick booty too. 2kgil though seems low, make it a rare item that has a 10% chance to drop among other items that are deemed rare with 20-30% to drop. Challenge chests or whatever. That would be cool.

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Originally Posted by Daniolaut

Very true, but not what i'm asking for at all really.

I'm not asking for more mechanics or more difficulty i'm asking for variety.

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To add more variety you need to add more mechanics, because different Mechanics means more variety.

Also you may like the idea of adding more dangerous stuff to the dungeons and I wouldn't mind them either but as one of the people mentioned in this post today it will just add more errors and fails. I like to have a smooth dungeon run and to enable that simple mechanics that people are already familiar gives us the better chance of that.

But even today I see people wipe on dungeons so just adding more variety to it might increase the chance of people wiping more often in dungeons.

Also it you can say each dungeon is the same but the boss's have different tacts to them and for me that's the main thing what matters to me.

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Originally Posted by Brill_

They will need to shake things up in 3.0. I really can't handle tome grinding anymore. I really don't expect game breaking changes in a 2.x patch, so I've just been patiently waiting for 3.0 and hope they will make the game a lot more interesting.

Trash in a dungeon isn't threatening anyway. I'd like to see more of what we saw in the last section of AK hard mode. Kill multiple waves quickly or die.

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I did that as a White Mage for my expert roulette and man that part scares me everytime.

Alternate routes with additional rewards would be wonderful. Could make it so one route is about like what we have now, so those who want to finish can finish and then make the other route make things a bit harder with a sub-boss. That route gives a debuff of some sort and a nasty mini-boss that either changes the final fight or duration of the run in some way.

You won't please everyone, that's part of what I think is a problem but they're trying bless their hearts. Best bet is to give people that option of which mode they want. In the end I don't mind taking extra time if it mean I'm having fun. I love the beauty of these dungeons so taking a slower route that might give better rewards would be great.

I'd like that harder route to make it almost near impossible to speed run. I hate speed runs, so this would be right for me. Though then again how many times would parties argue over which route to take..in the end the tank will run where he wants to go and usually most will follow. Let the games begin.

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Originally Posted by cearka

I'd love to get some hard dungeons SW style.

they'd ideally go something like
BOSS
BOSS
BOSS
BOSS
BOSS
BOSS

and no trash. these dungeons should be really freaking hard too.

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But thats what we called coil lol......
No more turn 3 etc just
Boss
Boss
Boss
Boss
Boss
With trash mobs here and there but r gone after u clear em for tht week :3
"Hard" difficulty in dungeons r just an illusion cuz the devs couldn't think of a more creative name.
Technically "hard" dungeons all have 1 thing in common THEY ALL LIKE TO HAVE SOME KIND OF BARRIER/GATE that regulates the speed of completion.
So if SE's idea of difficulty is
More gates and barriers = higher difficulty.
"Dungeon" extreme = now with 20% more gates!

I'd like to see dungeons with more mechanics like: puzzles, mazes, team coordination. You know, parts where it would require the team to split up, enter codes that could have been found through out the dungeon encounter to progress.

I'd also like to see the scattered chests contain items that are actually useful rather than a potion that'll collect dust. I dunno something like 1-2, maybe even 3* mats with a chance for some gil (ie random player gets the item drop and everyone else gets a select amount of gil 500-2k RNG style per player).

Just some ideas...

I like a lot of the ideas here. I could see extra hidden boss with high level gear drops. Something I've wanted for sometime is Solo Dfs. My " Never will Happen " wish is a Walkthru Dfs mode with no mobs. It would be nice to read the notes in DFS,really get to see what stuff really looks like and go check out those other paths no one ever takes. Just my Ideas.

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Originally Posted by Daniolaut

-REAL TREASURE you can even put it after the final boss, where if you keep going you can obtain a chest that drops 2000+ gil PER player, or that drops darkmatter like in 1.0

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All those identical BLMs around the ul'dah aetheryte are going to be very happy if this is added. That gil bonus will quickly become worthless as this drastic increase to the gil fountain will cause massive inflation.

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Originally Posted by Leigaon

Alternate routes with additional rewards would be wonderful.

...

Though then again how many times would parties argue over which route to take..in the end the tank will run where he wants to go and usually most will follow. Let the games begin.

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All the requests for different routes. Sounds a little like Coil 1 Turn 2. Got 2 different "main" paths, and still most groups seems to not really go the beneficial route for their party makeup. Here's a hint. NIN don't like the "melee" path (left) but rather go with the caster DPS right. Sure, no different rewards, and with our inflated gear and Echo it doesn't matter anyway. And a tank with full STR accessories, they like the right path with the casters as well.

No matter what SE adds, people will AOE zerg brute force their way through, slowly eliminating the new variety of tactics until it is still all the same as we have now. As it was in WoW forever. Rogue sap? Mage polymorph? Hunter traps? Priest undead root? All ignored to the AOE zerg. Basically, crowd control and tactics are a waste of everyone's time, so everything, no matter what, will be boiled down to the same mush. If you are not hitting an AOE ability (besides AOE sleep), you are doing something wrong. And that's just sad.

LotA. First room. The elemental things, and the 2 Valefor. Let's say if you also agro Valefor it greatly buffs the elementals. Deadly when everyone first stepped in there weeks after release. Now? AOE zergfest. Anybody new coming to play? They will see it boiled down to the same mush, and they will never see the new tactics or mechanics. They will never realize that there IS a lot of different things to the game, the players just plow through and makes it all look the same. Just like Coil 1 Turn 2. How soon was the Enrage method the standard, tank and spank with no new mechanics?

I was thinking about that how things just reduce down to aoes that burn my eyesight. Mind you this is just throwing ideas out there. But maybe they need to boost the enhancements these mobs can get. Reduce the amount of monsters per "pull" but let them have enhanced buffs and debuffs..if two mobs use the same party buff it gets enhanced by potency and resets duration like how the poisons stack. Or take something like re-doing shock spikes. First gives the buff to the entire pull monsters. Then if another monster is pulled and uses it, it gets enhanced to shock spikes 2 for more damage and add in that lovely paralyze.

Mix and match certain enhancements and maybe can mix and match our AoE vs Single target usage. Force people to make sure a certain mob goes down first then can AoE the rest if needed, but if you pull too many you risk the monsters being really super charged to the point where i'm sure someone will come in and complain. If a monster casts regen on itself and you pull it in a large group, then the same creature type but from the different pull set does it, resets the pulls regen and enhances it.

But in return a lot of other things need to happen. I might get in trouble for this but how wonderful would it be if skillchains and MB's were brought back but only usable by the mobs? Or a beefy roaming mob could possible start a battle regimen on the tank, not doing so much damage but doing some nasty debuffs that can spread to the party but also of course more dmg. If they know the giant Ram wandering about is about to aggro and can do a move that the other mobs can possibly link to in order to create a damaging aoe on us, might force the AoE's to hopefully focus on that one guy..then mix and match our aoe's and single targets again.

Of course as ilv goes up can't change much of how it will turn out. I believe it's inevitable that we will reduce a run to nothing more than spamming AoEs..just thinking of ways to delay it.

If you mix that up with alternate routes like what was suggested, boosting the elemental dangers, could be fun. Or maybe I just created a healers nightmare where a tank pulls 6 mobs and they do an AoE light SC that spreads bad breath to the entire party..twice..doubling the potency.