Best theoretical 1 tank 2 healer 5 DPS set up?

I've always wondered how SCH SCH BLM BLM BLM BLM BRD would fare assuming both scholars running selene and manually controlling for 100% spell speed uptime and having black mages purely itemize for spell speed.


But, what set up nets the most DPS output? Any ideas?

SCH WHM MNK MNK BLM BLM BRD PLD

didn't see the 1 tank part so edited it

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Originally Posted by Pluvia

SCH WHM MNK MNK BLM BRD PLD WAR

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Sorry I should have clarified, best set up for raw single target DPS output.

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Originally Posted by reality_check

Sorry I should have clarified, best set up for raw single target DPS output.

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oh for raw dps i assume no mechanics
Prob MNK MNK MNK NIN BRD WHM SCH PLD

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Originally Posted by Pluvia

oh for raw dps i assume no mechanics
Prob MNK MNK MNK NIN BRD WHM SCH PLD

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Why not a WAR tank? If they apply Storm's Eye, the NIN can DPS harder too.

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Originally Posted by juniglee

Why not a WAR tank? If they apply Storm's Eye, the NIN can DPS harder too.

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Possibly to have more cooldowns to allow more downtime to have the healers also DPS

WAR as the tank definitely. WAR DPS is almost 2x of PLD DPS (with STR accessories or VIT/STR overmelded)

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Originally Posted by aerolol

WAR as the tank definitely. WAR DPS is almost 2x of PLD DPS (with STR accessories or VIT/STR overmelded)

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I'm sure as hell I can't output 800+ dps as a war. While I'm sure as hell PLD can do these 400+ dps (there is a parser of that on CT3 on this forum)

PLD sword oath > WAR > WAR under defiance > PLD shield oath
if we're talking about raw dps.

(we're talking about CT2/CT3 here so PLD in sword oath is perfectly acceptable as MT btw)

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Originally Posted by aerolol

WAR as the tank definitely. WAR DPS is almost 2x of PLD DPS (with STR accessories or VIT/STR overmelded)

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As a Paladin, I gotta say-! ...Yeah, no, I have no idea why anybody would bring a Paladin if what they want is DPS. Take a warrior.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

I'm sure as hell I can't output 800+ dps as a war. While I'm sure as hell PLD can do these 400+ dps (there is a parser of that on CT3 on this forum)

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You like some fallacies don't you...

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

PLD sword oath > WAR > WAR under defiance > PLD shield oath
if we're talking about raw dps.

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Not true. That may be the case if the warrior is using Storm's Eye, which will buff PLD dmg by 10% and even then it'll be the same or lower than Warrior DPS. (1% or less extra damage from PLD compared to WAR -if- the warrior keeps Storm's Eye up all the time)

If you have only 1 tank, as the topic creator suggests, and you have to rely on Ninja for the slashing dmg buff, the DPS loss of ninja having to keep it up instead of using Aeolian edge is bigger than the DPS gain of PLD.

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Originally Posted by aerolol

If you have only 1 tank, as the topic creator suggests, and you have to rely on Ninja for the slashing dmg buff, the DPS loss of ninja having to keep it up instead of using Aeolian edge is bigger than the DPS gain of PLD.

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this might be why I'm such an awful ninja then... (that and hellish mudra lag making me lose half my ninjustsu but that's an other subject)

Oh well, we all gotta learn something new every day. Point taken.


(don't take the first sentence you quoted too seriously btw. I just love making fun of tiny exaggerations when I see them ^^)

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Originally Posted by juniglee

Why not a WAR tank? If they apply Storm's Eye, the NIN can DPS harder too.

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Because a Ninja's dancing edge debuff (increases slashing damage dealt) does not stack with Storm's Eye from warrior.

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

Because a Ninja's dancing edge debuff (increases slashing damage dealt) does not stack with Storm's Eye from warrior.

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yeah, thats why you do want a war

also all these people talking about war not having cooldowns, innerbeast and storms path
stop trying to play war like pld
when you play war like war, it isnt lacking at all in survivablity (and is even better than pld if you dont have a healer, like solo content)
really, only advantages pld has is
option of stun spam, better oh shit button in terms of not dying, tempered will not being tied to their not die button and not binding them, and cover and stoneskin (though storm's path is 10% damage reduction debuff)

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

I'm sure as hell I can't output 800+ dps as a war. While I'm sure as hell PLD can do these 400+ dps (there is a parser of that on CT3 on this forum)

PLD sword oath > WAR > WAR under defiance > PLD shield oath
if we're talking about raw dps.

(we're talking about CT2/CT3 here so PLD in sword oath is perfectly acceptable as MT btw)

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Lol kuwa, if you cannot go above 800 as war with melded gear there's a problem, currently my only melded piece is my belt and I oftenly hit for 1200 to 1500 with critical hits

Tank depends on if WAR no Defiance (-Unchained opener) + NIN DPS is higher than PLD Sword Oath + NIN DPS. Also depends on if Hallowed is needed to skip stacks like Ifrit EX and if you bring a NIN at all (in which case WAR wins because WAR will out DPS a PLD without access to SE/DE).

Healers will always be WHM/SCH.

DPS would ideally be: 1 BRD 2 MNK 1 NIN 1 BLM.

SMN can replace BLM depending on the encounter, but BLM is a consistent choice.

All that said, nothing in the game requires an optimal set up right now. Whatever's available is what you should use.

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Originally Posted by Phyllo

Lol kuwa, if you cannot go above 800 as war with melded gear there's a problem, currently my only melded piece is my belt and I oftenly hit for 1200 to 1500 with critical hits

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Er. He said he doesn't do 800+ DPS, not that none of his hits land for 800+ damage.

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Originally Posted by Phyllo

Lol kuwa, if you cannot go above 800 as war with melded gear there's a problem, currently my only melded piece is my belt and I oftenly hit for 1200 to 1500 with critical hits

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err...

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Er. He said he doesn't do 800+ DPS, not that none of his hits land for 800+ damage.

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^This

dps has little to do with big hits.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Well... that's not entirely true. :P

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overall dps *mumble mumble* yeah shortcuts are bad :p

They're factored in but they do not contribute as much as one may think.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

dps has little to do with big hits.

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Well... that's not entirely true. :P

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Originally Posted by Phyllo

Lol kuwa, if you cannot go above 800 as war with melded gear there's a problem, currently my only melded piece is my belt and I oftenly hit for 1200 to 1500 with critical hits

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dmg = damage || dps = damage per second.

hopefully that clarifies the discussion :D :D

DPS on PLD imo is very easy. Everything is easy on PLD imo. But most things can be done better on WAR.

That being said, I've queue'd some Duty Finders as MRD, where only one tank is necessary. I take the extra cross class skills such as Blood for Blood, Raging Strikes, Invigorate, etc. With no intention of tanking this makes me a viable DPS. (At least, as far as we're concerned with random groups you get in a Duty Finder, since I'm optimized for DPS, I'm doing more than most DPS in there, unless I get lucky with another really good DPS in there)

Circling back to OP. . . . if it's single target dmg, then you wouldn't want BLM's. Also, your healers would change based on the type of damage your party is receiving. Sort of. If you include Limit Break damage, you want to push for different classes. . . so I always prefer WHM+SCH.

Best Single Target composition : WHM + SCH + MNK + DRG + BRD + NIN + SMN + WAR (WAR rotating SE & BB combo's.)
best AoE Composition : WHM + SCH + BRD + BLM + BLM + BLM + BLM + WAR (Overpower)
Best Ranged-DPS Single Target: WHM + SCH + BRD + SMN + SMN + SMN + SMN + WAR/PLD

ranged-dps might also beat out the standard composition. I don't actually know the dps ceiling. Really you'd need to calculate that, and also factor in the slower-building Limit Break guage from stacking four of one job in there.

WAR | SCH | WHM | NIN | NIN | NIN | NIN | NIN

WHY!?
WAR keeps up Eye, that allows NIN to not use DE and go for the more potent AE combo
You have 83% uptime on Trick attack, which is another +10% DPS
A good SCH with Eos means a lot of uptime on DPSing for both WHM and SCH
WAR's tank stance dmg is better than PLD tank stance DMG.

Assuming we are talking a real fight with actual mechanics, you will probably need the WHM AE heals.

You generally always need WHM+SCH for ideal groups. doubling up on SCH may technically be more potent in theory, but there's too much redundancy to be effective.
Plus while 2 selenes seems nice, having 2 of them will either have them stepping on each other's cute little toes, or if they're not, draining the group's TP too fast.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

err...



^This

dps has little to do with big hits.



overall dps *mumble mumble* yeah shortcuts are bad :p

They're factored in but they do not contribute as much as one may think.

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My bad I misread it xD

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

WAR | SCH | WHM | NIN | NIN | NIN | NIN | NIN

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This is actually something I considered when I discovered NIN's utility of Goad and TA.

5 NIN is great, but the main problem is that one of them will lack a Goad buddy. 6 NIN fixes this problem, but obviously that doesn't fall into the 1/2/5 setup. 6 NIN does also give you 100% up time on TA, though, which is pretty crazy.

But the big question is who gets what Goad when in a 5 NIN comp. The WAR will also need one at some point, especially if there's an OP heavy phase or the fight goes on for long enough. 5 NIN also isn't the best for AOE situations, so in fights with AOE they are a bit more gimped and there would also be a lot of Goad usage there, making things a bit more difficult later on.

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Originally Posted by Mishini_Dracoto

Circling back to OP. . . . if it's single target dmg, then you wouldn't want BLM's.

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If you're in a situation where you don't need AOE, why bring a BLM or a SMN at all? Just throw another Monk on. You do bring up an interesting composition I hadn't considered, which is DRG + MNK vs MNK + MNK. Before the adjustments, double MNK was the best melee comp, so I'm not sure if that's changed now or not with the buff to DRG's damage coupled with the default increase in BRD's damage.

A fun setup would be WAR, SCH, SCH, DRG, BRD, BRD, BLM, BLM

Double Disembowel for BRDs, Double Foes for BLMs and SCHs. AOE damage would be really good here. Single target probably not as good as just having more MNKs.

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

WAR | SCH | WHM | NIN | NIN | NIN | NIN | NIN

WHY!?
WAR keeps up Eye, that allows NIN to not use DE and go for the more potent AE combo
You have 83% uptime on Trick attack, which is another +10% DPS
A good SCH with Eos means a lot of uptime on DPSing for both WHM and SCH
WAR's tank stance dmg is better than PLD tank stance DMG.

Assuming we are talking a real fight with actual mechanics, you will probably need the WHM AE heals.

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goad doesn't solve the tp issues ninja will have and even with the 83% uptime on trick attack it still probably won't out damage monks need a bard in there