Paladin MP Regen QoL Request

In 3.0, or earlier, can we raise the out of combat MP regeneration for Paladins (or tanks in general)?
Right now a Warrior can burn all of their TP on an aoe fight, and be at full TP in under 30s (10 ticks).

Paladins, and most classes, regen 6% of their MP per tick out of combat, this means a PLD who burns their mana in a pull needs 51 seconds (17 ticks) to get back to full... No group is going to wait 51 seconds for you to regen mana.

Below are my suggestions on how to address this issue.

1. Raise Paladin, or just general tank MP regen to 10% out of combat, and maybe 4% in combat.

2. Raise the Piety bonus on the PLD crystal. Right now a PLD can Flash 7 times before going completely OOM. Suppose we raise the Piety bonus on the PLD crystal such that the base PLD mp is equal to 10x the cost of Flash. So 2120 at lvl 50 with Flash costing 212.
This would result in PLDs being able to Flash 11 times in a row.

with these 2 changes in place, a PLD can effectively Flash once per tick out of combat, AND a total of 11 times on a fight, while being able to regen that mana in 30 sec.

As a base of comparison, a War, starting from 1000 TP, and regenerating 60 TP per tick... In both tank cases we will simplyify the GCD to being 3s to match the tick... A War can spam Overpower FIFTEEN TIMES! And Flash 3 times.

So PLD aoe spam aggro: 600*.8*2*11 (proposed MP change) = 10560.
Current Warrior spam aggro (no maim): 120*5*.75*2*15 = 13500.

So with this change, PLD's total aoe hate generation will be somewhat close to Warrior's, ignoring Maim and Steel Cyclone which will give War a solid lead either way.
However this will let a PLD safely Flash 5-6 times every pull, without having to worry about sitting around for nearly a minute afterwords.

PS. Riot Blade needs to give back a higher % of MP, and needs a 3rd step in its combo. =)

If I find myself running low on MP during battle a few whacks of Riot Blade gets it back up pretty quick. As for in between battle, yeah not so much.

If you're in a pull and Flash until OOM, you've probably generated enough threat right there to just Riot Blade for the rest of the fight, which all but guarantees that you'll have full MP by the time you pull the next group. Even if 7 isn't enough, you probably won't need more than 10, which still gives time for Riot Blade spam.

Riot Blade

/thread

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Donjo

If you're in a pull and Flash until OOM, you've probably generated enough threat right there to just Riot Blade for the rest of the fight, which all but guarantees that you'll have full MP by the time you pull the next group. Even if 7 isn't enough, you probably won't need more than 10, which still gives time for Riot Blade spam.

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^ This

Flash 3-5 times and start your riot blade combo. Focus on the riot blades on the mob taking the most damage. You might need another flash or 2 depending on the group but you should have full MP ready for the next pull.

Donjo and Sir Taint nail it. Your natural mana regen during a fight alongside judicious use of riot blade should nip any issues in the bud right there.

An emergency lay on hands type move that instantly regens mana with a long cooldown would be nice though.

Again, its not an issue of holding aggro in a single fight, its about the entire dungeon run.

Simply put, on a Warrior you can safely use 5-6 Overpowers in a single fight, then go into your standard ST rotation cycling through targets, and likely finish off with a Steel Cyclone to ensure nothing peels off of you at the end... And be back to full TP before the next pull.

On a Paladin, although yes, Flash does generate 6.67% more hate per use, you only get 7 of them for your entire MP bar, which takes nearly twice as long to regenerate as a War's TP.

Let me reemphasize that this is a QoL change more than anything. If I NEED to hold aggro on everything for 1 hypothetical "almighty" pull, then I will burn my entire MP bar as PLD, or practically all of my TP, +3 Flashes as War, because it is 1 pull and I know that I will have sufficient time to restore all of my TP and MP before the next "almighty" pull.

The problem is, as soon as you outgear content and throw in some strong aoe classes, especially if you end up in a group with 2 blms (happens more often that you'd expect), then they will want, if not simply expect you to pull multiple groups at once and hold aggro on everything while they mash Flare... Now I too play a BLM from time to time, so I know that a skilled BLM can mow down arbitrarily large groups and be ready to go again in a whopping 9 seconds.
The problem is that as a PLD tank, it takes me up to 51 seconds to be ready to spam Flash such that THEY can spam Flare... For a War, it takes no longer than 30 sec. <- THIS is what I would like to address.

My request is that TANK mana regen is raised to a higher percentage, ideally 10% per tick out of combat, such that a PLD and War will regenerate all of their MP and TP in no more than 30 sec.
And preferably, for the PLD mana pool to be increased (or the cost of Flash decreased) such that we regenerate the mana equivalent of 1 Flash per out of combat tick, allowing us to PULL dungeons as fast as Warriors... And again I am ignoring both Maim (20% more damage/aggro for 11 gcds for the price of 2 gcds, and Steel Cyclone, which is a massive 1200 hate potency for 1 gcd, with no TP or MP cost.

And yes, I am fully aware of spamming Fast-Riot on whatever has the least health once I am done using Flash, or rotating through mobs if everything is going down at a roughly equal pace.

Still, try going into one of the newer dungeons as a PLD with 1 BLM who is aoeing everything, AND 1 low-moderate aoe dps. If you conserve Flashes, the BLM will outaggro you on random mobs because the fight dragged on and his damage exceeded your Flash aggro. Then try chain pulling everything without stopping to wait for mana, cause that BLM isnt waiting more than 9 seconds... Simply put, you will run out of mana and lose aggro by the 3rd consecutive pull, or your BLM will realize that they are nipping at your heels and will slow down.

Now do the same thing with a Warrior and tell me the difference. - Both hold hate just as well for the first pull, but PLD runs low on resources on the 2nd pull, and can barely Flash 2 times on the 3rd consecutive pull. Warrior does not have this problem.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kenji1134

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I'm afraid that you didn't quite understand what we were saying. Even in your hypothetical BLM/Moderate AOE situation, it is perfectly possible to alternate Riot Blades and Flashes such that you come out positive. If you ever have to wait 51 seconds for your mana to regen after a battle, you've done it wrong. As a PLD, you have an ability that directly regenerates MP. WARs have no such equivalent. PLDs are actually better at sustaining a string of large pulls with no breaks. You just have to balance your Flashes and Riot Blades right.

The only time you need to flash an entire bar away for the sake if keeping aggro is if yuri dps severely out gear you. Once you have established enough that the mob will run out of hp before dps take hate, addition flashes are useless. It deals no damage and yiu have enough theat. At that point it's better to riot or halone for damage, not waste mp on useless overkill flashes.

If you are seriously running out of mp and teetering on the edge of the threat meter, you need better gear.

With the changes to enmity generation with flash and Scorn, any further changes would be unbalancing. If you are SR dungeons, you'll need to learn to be more discerning in your flash spammage.

Or pop a Hi-Elixir :)

This thread... no... just... well... yeah no. PLD is sitting pretty with MP already. If you're having issues, I suggest going back to tank school.

they have all told you what to do,, take the knowledge and use it, you will see pld has no mp issues in most cases.

If you are a ilvl 110 or get synced to ilvl 110 and you are on dps class, it's up to you to see if the tank can handle the aggro if you go all out, or if you should slow down a bit, because there is only so much a ilvl 55 tank can do against a ilvl 110 blm triple flaringwith RS and without Quelling Strikes(because you always have to give the worst possible situation as an example) if you do that as a dps on a ilvl 55 tank, the blame is nearly all on you, a tiny bit of the blame goes for SE for not making the max ilvl of a dungeon be 20-30ilvls higher instead of 70(I think AK and WP are ilvl50, might be less, so in that case ilvl 70+)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AniCelestine

there is only so much a ilvl 55 tank can do against a ilvl 110 blm triple flaringwith RS and without Quelling Strikes

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in that scenario 1 flare is probs enough to pull the agro.. but yeah low geared tank has no chance against the norm 110 geared dps.

I agree with the level sync being odd.. but I also think it shouldn't exist for pre-arranged grps

Why not give warriors the ability to cross-class invigorate while we are at it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dspguy

Why not give warriors the ability to cross-class invigorate while we are at it.

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Because then we'll have access to delicious parry cross skill and delicious damage cross that no Paladin wants us to have.