50 Dungeon exclusivity. WHY!!!????

After having run the level 45 Dungeon now several times, I am very dissapointed that SE chose to make it for only 4 of the combat classes. I say this because it is clear that if you want to finish the dungeon in its entirety with the time given, the only way to do so that I have seen is with a party full of archers and mages with one Glad as a tank. Taking in a marauder or Pugilist class is a waste of time and space in the party.

Every video I have seen about successful Darkhold runs seems to follow some version of this setup. ANd frankly, after having played it as my Pug several times, I just stand (or run) around the entire time taking up space where an archer or mage class would be better suited for fighting the bosses at the end. And while I understand that this sort of exclusivity is more based on what preferences the players seem to choose to go in with, why the hell did I waste my time leveling Pugilist to rank 50 if all I am going to do in there is follow the tank as we run through it and then try to stay the hell out of the way for the boss fights. I feel like I wasted my time, and I certainly don't enjoy doing the runs. Its not a challenge, its a joke.

Making something so hard that only a few select party set ups can accomplish it seems to be completely condradictory to the spirit of the game. I would welcome any videos any one has of successful runs done by different party setups that don't include 4 archers, 3 mages, and a tank or some combination thereof.

I am not asking them to dumb it down or make it easy mode, there already seems to be enough of that in the game as it is, but making something in a way that only certain classes can accomplish it consistantly is something there was plenty of in FFXi and should be reduced if not eliminated in XIV.

There is always going to be a preffered method to doing things, because let's face it; most people will take the easy way out if they can. but it has to be possible to do it with any class. they test content before releasing it, they had to make sure it was possible in multiple situations, with a key strategy set in place by the strengths and weaknesses of the bosses. so its not like the developers purposefuly made it so only those classes can do it. get some brave people with brains and skill and prove yourself wrong. if anything this just proves that most people suck at video games and always have to zerg or find loopholes. blame the Game Genie boys that everyone builds strats off of, not SE, im sure they did not intend for it to be doable only by 4 classes.

besides, you did'nt just rank up your pug to do darkhold, so i would'nt quite say you wasted ur time just because whoever you do dungeon runs with only knows one way to do them.

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Originally Posted by Aguilla

There is always going to be a preffered method to doing things, because let's face it; most people will take the easy way out if they can. but it has to be possible to do it with any class. they test content before releasing it, they had to make sure it was possible in multiple situations, with a key strategy set in place by the strengths and weaknesses of the bosses. so its not like the developers purposefuly made it so only those classes can do it. get some brave people with brains and skill and prove yourself wrong. if anything this just proves that most people suck at video games and always have to zerg or find loopholes. blame the Game Genie boys that everyone builds strats off of, not SE, im sure they did not intend for it to be doable only by 4 classes.

besides, you did'nt just rank up your pug to do darkhold, so i would'nt quite say you wasted ur time just because whoever you do dungeon runs with only knows one way to do them.

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Have totally tried exactly what you have suggested. The Ogre boss (which isnt even the last boss) has an AOE attack that makes sending in more than one person to fight it up close a sure way to eat up all your time. The mobs they put in the dungeon itself are all meant to be run past if you have any hope at all of completeing the boss fights in the hour given. Trust me, I would not have made this post if my LS had not tried what you have suggested here several times as well as spent a lot of time online checking out other peoples strategies, of which, there seems to be one. And while I am sure you are right when it comes to SE having play tested this, I would love to see what setups they accomplished a full run with that isn't the setup I have listed above.

Also, I love PGL, and I know that the 45 dungeon won't be the only high level content to come out in the game. But as of right now, and for the next 40 days or so, it is. Just looking for anyone out there that can show me some alternatives they may have used.

Biggs, you are speaking without proof. My LS has cleared the dungeon several times with different classes.

hell we did it with 3 marauders once marauder can tank ogre so easily its not funny. Pugilist is an awesome tank for both ogre and batraal as well.

You just need to learn how to do it.

The first tiem we figured that pug was an awesome tank for ogre was bya ccident. We couldnt do teh regular positioning for a new guy who joined us as PUG (im a LNC btw) and he couldnt reach ogre from down below...so he went up and stood right next to our gla tank...he barely took any damage from teh aoe attacks from ogre...so we later tried to tank as pug and it worked.

its just trial and error.

Keep in mind that they took a risk and released these dungeons early to tide us over. These dungeons are intended for the advanced job system that they plan to introduce hopefully around 1.20.

PS - MRD is the best tank in the Darkhold :)

Dungeons are for Jobs i don't even know why they release them now lol

This is a topic i've discussed several times in my linkshell. This attitute to do dungeons in the way it's cheaper because..it's cheaper, it's something i really don't wanna do. Hope with the next class balances and/or jobs to overcome this issue

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Originally Posted by Irana

Biggs, you are speaking without proof. My LS has cleared the dungeon several times with different classes.

hell we did it with 3 marauders once marauder can tank ogre so easily its not funny. Pugilist is an awesome tank for both ogre and batraal as well.

You just need to learn how to do it.

The first tiem we figured that pug was an awesome tank for ogre was bya ccident. We couldnt do teh regular positioning for a new guy who joined us as PUG (im a LNC btw) and he couldnt reach ogre from down below...so he went up and stood right next to our gla tank...he barely took any damage from teh aoe attacks from ogre...so we later tried to tank as pug and it worked.

its just trial and error.

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While I am optimistic that what your saying here is right, having tried it several times the way you say here, very unsuccessfully I might add, I would say it is you that have no proof. If you can provide me with a video or a skills setup or some form of actual proof that what your saying here is feasible, I would love to try it. Until then, I am inclined to belive what Zenaku is saying is true, and that this was meant for a jobs system that isnt in the game yet. Like I said, I didn't just try this one time and do no research online and then start this post up.

Pulseczar: This was a thread requesting help in the matter. Telling me that MRD is the best tank in the Darkhold without telling me how or why does absolutley nothing to help me in any way.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

Dungeons are for Jobs i don't even know why they release them now lol

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Because many people still playing, and many sitting on the sidelines trolling forums, have been whining for months about no new content .. so SE add some stuff, a bit ahead of time perhaps, only to have others, like you, complain about that.

Se are damned if they do, damned if they don't, as ever.

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Originally Posted by Biggs

While I am optimistic that what your saying here is right, having tried it several times the way you say here, very unsuccessfully I might add, I would say it is you that have no proof. If you can provide me with a video or a skills setup or some form of actual proof that what your saying here is feasible, I would love to try it. Until then, I am inclined to belive what Zenaku is saying is true, and that this was meant for a jobs system that isnt in the game yet. Like I said, I didn't just try this one time and do no research online and then start this post up.

Pulseczar: This was a thread requesting help in the matter. Telling me that MRD is the best tank in the Darkhold without telling me how or why does absolutley nothing to help me in any way.

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MRD is agood tank thanks to abilities like defender 2, foresight 2, featherfoot 2 form pugilist, sentinel,rampart, obsess, etc etc. Not to mention bloodbath 2 couple with abilities like Invigorate 2 from lancer and raging strike 2 from archer.

I do have proof and it is doable:
http://www.wegame.com/watch/dzemael-darkhold-run-part1/

You cna clearly see me as a lancer having no issues

Sadly I did not record the 3 MRD run u.u

Yeah no... This raid is dumb. Job system or no the boss is an AoE spammer. Unless they can limit the ogres ability to spam AoE then it's gonna be RNG ONRY. I'm not too pleased with the zerg tactic of running through the damn dungeon either that's just poor design... Leads me to believe this one was just cobbled together. Iv'e seen tactics for taking melee jobs and they involve taking advantage of a gimpy walkmesh wich is totally a game exploit and not really melee jobs beating the boss. So I'm gonna have to support the thumbs down camp on Darkhold.

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Originally Posted by Irana

MRD is agood tank thanks to abilities like defender 2, foresight 2, featherfoot 2 form pugilist, sentinel,rampart, obsess, etc etc. Not to mention bloodbath 2 couple with abilities like Invigorate 2 from lancer and raging strike 2 from archer.

I do have proof and it is doable:
http://www.wegame.com/watch/dzemael-darkhold-run-part1/

You cna clearly see me as a lancer having no issues

Sadly I did not record the 3 MRD run u.u

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You didn't get the fifth chest because you weren't fast enough. This doesn't exactly prove anything we didn't already know.

Also, all those "MRD abilities" you mentioned are accessible to GLD, as well. MRD has more HP and parries but I don't think those can rival shield skills.

The dungeon is dumb because the only way you can get the fifth chest is by skipping all the content (enemies) in-between.

These dungeons are just that dungeons. THey didn't even think to actually think outside of the box here, when you get the most epic and final boss in dungeons, its clear and time based meaning. Clear this many paths, or wait till this time. That's not exciting is it? Nyzul Isle was more exciting then this, and its because it required teamwork on some floors, and you knew you're weakest link. The weakest link in xiv barely effects the party, you only need 3-4 strong links to carry a party through them, well wait...there making these dungeons doable by 4 people, coincidence? Idk I actually think its being made to 4 people for leveling purposes. Getting 8 together at certain times of day is harder than others, like 8 on saturday no prob, 8 on wednesday..harder. So if you only need 4 to just eff around and level in there that's awesome. I would like to see if 4 people could clear the dungeon completely with last boss and such, won't say it can't happen.

Pretty6 sure the reason they are making it 4-8 people is because there is going to be a lot more quests that make you head into the dungeon but do not necessarily require a win.

Also, they released 2 dungeons....and since rank 50 players can pretty much solo/zerg the rank 25... there is only one dungeon right now (Darkhold) the requires any planning/strategy/skill. Basing 'They let my class out!' on ONE instanced raid is absurd. If the game had 10-20 dungeons and they ALL required Ranged Attackers,a solid tank, and healers...you'd have a point. But again, as there is only ONE dungeon, which was developed for the game in a future state.... like the new 'non-Battle Regimen' battle system... and job classes, it's unfair to judge SE's 'raid direction' with the one Dungeon. As someone else said, we only have these dungeons currently because enough players 'needed something to do' So they gave us these dungeons... but it would have been poor planning and just dumb on SE's part to gear the dungeons to the current playstyle and class abilities when they've been very clear, the battle system, class abilities, and jobs are getting a major overhaul.

Lastly, Pugs/Lancers/Mrd's can be JUST as effective in the dungeon if they know where to stand what abilities to use and can self-heal a little bit. Pugs/Lancers can do decent damage on Ogre and Skeles helping achieve the win in a timely manner....it just takes more practice and more thought and care. Since people however would rather hack/slash their way though everything, and since it only takes one wrong hit on the ogre (Mrd/Pug/Lancer hit him from behind it can wipe whole party) people tend to 'leave them out' unless they know the said Mrd/Pug/Lancer is a decent player who pays attention and plays their class well. I get why you might think this is 'unfair' but seriously, there will be other monsters/battles/instances that will make more sense to have the 'left out' classes complete...just give SE more time to release it.

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Originally Posted by Biggs

After having run the level 45 Dungeon now several times, I am very dissapointed that SE chose to make it for only 4 of the combat classes. I say this because it is clear that if you want to finish the dungeon in its entirety with the time given, the only way to do so that I have seen is with a party full of archers and mages with one Glad as a tank. Taking in a marauder or Pugilist class is a waste of time and space in the party.

Every video I have seen about successful Darkhold runs seems to follow some version of this setup. ANd frankly, after having played it as my Pug several times, I just stand (or run) around the entire time taking up space where an archer or mage class would be better suited for fighting the bosses at the end. And while I understand that this sort of exclusivity is more based on what preferences the players seem to choose to go in with, why the hell did I waste my time leveling Pugilist to rank 50 if all I am going to do in there is follow the tank as we run through it and then try to stay the hell out of the way for the boss fights. I feel like I wasted my time, and I certainly don't enjoy doing the runs. Its not a challenge, its a joke.

Making something so hard that only a few select party set ups can accomplish it seems to be completely condradictory to the spirit of the game. I would welcome any videos any one has of successful runs done by different party setups that don't include 4 archers, 3 mages, and a tank or some combination thereof.

I am not asking them to dumb it down or make it easy mode, there already seems to be enough of that in the game as it is, but making something in a way that only certain classes can accomplish it consistantly is something there was plenty of in FFXi and should be reduced if not eliminated in XIV.

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an old article I read from yoshi(Might have been a producers letter) said that eventually the strategies we use now won't be as effective.. meaning they are probably fixing dark hold so that it is not super ranged dps friendly.

My ls has done speed runs with a 44 mage *he came in as his 50 then changed to mage* and a second gladiator, along with a Pugilist and a Lancer with only one archer. I tanked Batraal as a GLD and as a MRD and though MRD can produce more threat, GLD takes way less damage hands down. Ill tell you a awesome god damn secret on how to do these speed runs you deem impossible unless its a 4 archer 3 mage *5 archer and 2 Mages which ive done a few times* group.

Full scale Battle Regiments. On ogre and batraal as im tanking I am participating in BRs using Luminous Spire, all the dps and two mages participate in it as well and when it goes off perfectly, does MASSIVE DAMAGE. One BR took off over 35 percent of Batraals HP. And we did this with a new gladiator tank we just brought along because he doesnt have anything else at 50 yet, and he needed to watch how I work anyway.

DH, isnt hard, BRs are being removed I know, but even without BRs we got Speed run Clears using no BRs with only two archers, 2 melees and 3 mages. Ifrit and these beastmen strong holds better bring some challenge, im bored to tears.

And yes, I used Skull Sunder 2 when the second gladiator is present so he can use Spire.