Seeking BLM advice

Hi all, I am hoping some kind souls could shed some light on my current situation. I have a BLM at 50, but it is not my main job - SCH is my main job.

In our static group we have a BLM who does not cast thunder - at all. I have talked to him privately about this and tried to offer advice based on what I could find online. He says he doesn't cast thunder because it does not feel 'comfortable' for him and instead he prefers to just use the fire and ice spells. He just flat out refuses to cast it, which I find really odd.

I also notice that he starts casting Blizzard 3 to move in to Ice phase when he has more than 1k mana.

We are currently trying to beat turn 9 - and we are getting 4 meteors at the beginning, and getting up to 3 Heaven falls. We have 1 tank and 5 dps. I feel that something is wrong lol.

So if anyone has any views or advice on this, I would really appreciate it so I can show our raid leader.

Thanks in advance :)

I dunno what to say lol. Proper rotation is Thunder X Fire 3 Raging strikes fire down til ice, blizz 3, thunder, and fill in then fire 3 back in to fire rotation. There isn't much you can do in terms of forcing someone to do something though :/

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Originally Posted by Xisin

I dunno what to say lol. Proper rotation is Thunder X Fire 3 Raging strikes fire down til ice, blizz 3, thunder, and fill in then fire 3 back in to fire rotation. There isn't much you can do in terms of forcing someone to do something though :/

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I like to save raging strikes to weave in after the first Fire I. It's surprising how often that first Fire I will trigger a Firestarter proc. Delaying RS gives that first one a chance to proc without wasting .5 secs doing nothing.

I can only possibly see the idea of "If I use another Fire, then after my Blizzard III I end up having to wait a tick of regen before I can cast anything again" as why he enters Umbral Ice III early. Bad excuse, though, since piety gains on Black Mages to fix that very issue aren't unheard of.
But what's he do during Umbral Ice? Just cast Blizzard X spells, or wait out the regen ticks doing nothing? Either way, ANY thunder in this downtime is assuredly better. If he can't see that, there's a huge derpsturbance in his output. Thaurmaturges are given the Thundercloud trait for a reason.

@Psywyn: Tell your friend to git gud bro, unless he's just content being a sub-par BLM. There's no reason not to utilize all the resources available to get the job done.

Hi guys, thanks for the input, lol.

He doesn't seem to be doing much in the Ice phase as he casts Blizzard 3 whilst over 1k mana so it shoots back up very fast, and then he starts with the Fire 3, Fire Fire spam. He just flatly refuses to cast thunder saying his DPS is good enough already and casting thunder would 'barely make a difference'.

It's really frustrating, but ty all for your replies.

Some people will want to do what they want to do. They won't take constructive criticism and there is not much to do about it but replace him. Do you guys run parses at all, what type of dps is he doing? If you did run a parse you can show him that his dps is lacking. People in a static need to be open to constructive critism and a willingness to improve their characters. Sounds like this group may not be a good fit for him if he is refusing to at least be open to any type of character improvement.

Not using thunder at all is a pretty big dps hit. You could see if he is willing to come on the forums and do a little reading. Theres a wealth of knowledge on some of the BLM threads.

He sounds more hardheaded than anything lol. If he is unwilling to change his rotation then, there isn't really anything you can do. I'm leveling Bard atm and it feels uncomfortable weaving windbite and venomous, but I do it anyways,

@Lemuel81, I don't run a parser.

I agree with what you say and think you give some good advice. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by ShaolinMike

I like to save raging strikes to weave in after the first Fire I. It's surprising how often that first Fire I will trigger a Firestarter proc. Delaying RS gives that first one a chance to proc without wasting .5 secs doing nothing.

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Either way I find it isn't a waste, mainly because the RS wears on the fire after the convert flare and before the blizzard 3, I'd rather the RS affect the first Fire rather than the blizzard at the end.

Blizzard III at 1k+ MP isn't always a bad thing; I've done it several times in fights when I know that I need to be at full MP in 5 seconds for adds, etc.

But thunder is the best spell in the rotation, no reason not to use it.

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Originally Posted by Xisin

Either way I find it isn't a waste, mainly because the RS wears on the fire after the convert flare and before the blizzard 3, I'd rather the RS affect the first Fire rather than the blizzard at the end.

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pretty much this :)

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Originally Posted by Psywyn

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Sounds like he's playing sub-par and while this may not be a problem for t9 (low dps check) in FCoB he will probably drag your team down. The DPS checks in those are a lot tighter.

There really is no reason to not use Thunder X, to start the rotation, to fill in gaps while in UI. Not to mention the procs he will get off it. I usually lead in with TII, then go to fire rotation, if I get a Thundercloud, I will toss a fire I before using it with TIII to see if I can get a Firestarter lol, then toss the thunder. I have seen some of my TIII do 2400+ dmg. In UI my thunder is macro'd in priority, TII then TI, that way if my mana isn't up to casting right away a TII, it's ok, TI is coming and I am still getting DPS and DoT's up.

Granted it is his job and he has the right to play as he pleases, but if it is holding the group back, really there are only a few options. Either he needs to change, or be changed out.

Meh, I used to main SMN and when I played BLM I feel uncomfortable having so little DoT :p
Speak of Thunder, since BLM have quite infinite MP, is there a reason to cast Thunder instead of Thunder II or III?

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Originally Posted by Puwarh

Meh, I used to main SMN and when I played BLM I feel uncomfortable having so little DoT :p
Speak of Thunder, since BLM have quite infinite MP, is there a reason to cast Thunder instead of Thunder II or III?

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The cast time is way shorter. In fact, if you're unlucky enough for your firestarter not to proc at all during your fire rotation, Thunder 2 and 3 will be DPS losses since you'll be back in ice rotation before the dot had time to run its full duration.

I believe Thunder II is optimal as long as you've got enough Piety to cast it after your 5 Fire without EVER waiting for a MP tick. Otherwise, Thunder is best. Thunder III should not be used outside of Thundercloud procs in order to maximise efficiency.

google puro strider blm, he has some very good basics for blm, and frankly including thunder is a basic. I like a thunder III to land just as tank pulls, then then standard rotation using thunder II (obv procs will use III), a scathe or blizz I while waiting for the mana tick (depending if I need to move etc).

it's up to him if he wants to stick to his widely regarded inferior rotation, tho I'd suggest replacing in your static. more because someone who is entirely resistant to any change or open to suggested improvements will only hold you back in the long run. I've blm'ed for a long time and actually love it when I or someone else comes up with something that I'd not thought of in rotation, that might even push my dps up by even a tiny amount - like a challenge against myself - imo ""saying his DPS is good enough already" is a very lackluster attitude. who wants to be "good enough"? I want to be putting out the highest numbers I can, and everyone being like WHAA?!

Pretty much this. Thunder II is the optimal cast, I believe due to similarity in potency, cast time being better and DoT duration / potency similarities. Also the reduced cost to cast weighed with the reasons above. Only reason I cast TI is in situations where I am in UI and didn't get the tic right away for TII. Other than that it's TII and TIII on cloud prcos.

Thanks guys, I really appreciate all your replies and they all make sense from my point of view.

Thanks again :)

Sounds like you anyway have a good grasp of what he should be doing. As others stated, if he won't take constructive criticism, or show you hard numbers as to why his way is better, there's nothing you can do. Ultimately he will drag your team down and you will not be able to meet the much tighter dps checks in later content. Not to mention the inability to take constructive criticism when handling complex mechanics. Having said this, I think you already know what you need to do if your want to see consistent progression through content.

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Originally Posted by ShaolinMike

I like to save raging strikes to weave in after the first Fire I. It's surprising how often that first Fire I will trigger a Firestarter proc. Delaying RS gives that first one a chance to proc without wasting .5 secs doing nothing.

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It's not surprising at all. It's 40% of the time. ;)

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Originally Posted by YanderePrincess

It's not surprising at all. It's 40% of the time. ;)

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Welllll it was surprising to me :-D I just came back to BLM after spending the better part of the last 8 months maining SMN. Been trying to hold out until they make adjustments but I just got fed up. Now I may not go back. I'm a SMN at heart, but I'm getting too used to being a walking atomic bomb.

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Originally Posted by Psywyn

He just flatly refuses to cast thunder saying his DPS is good enough already and casting thunder would 'barely make a difference'.

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The dot alone was around 10% DPS increase when I last checked the numbers. 'Twas back when no one had cleared Twintania yet, but I doubt it has changed too much from that. Will still add up nicely when you count the Thundercloud procs, too.

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Originally Posted by Waliel

The dot alone was around 10% DPS increase when I last checked the numbers. 'Twas back when no one had cleared Twintania yet, but I doubt it has changed too much from that. Will still add up nicely when you count the Thundercloud procs, too.

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It also gives you more Fire damage.