Is turning off game client and hope to get kicked to avoid penalty a thing?

Just did Sastasha normal, didn't think it was possible but tank managed to wipe the party on mob pulls before first boss. Right after the rez at start animation finished I noticed both tank and healer has the D/C icon then shortly after they are both offline.

And of course either of them ever came back.

I want to give them the benefit of the doubt, but my intuition tells me they are trying to cheat the system because I seen this kind of stuff before. I just want to make sure I'm not imagining things and other people seen this too.

It is totally a thing, unfortunately. If you suspect it, try to curtail the vote kick and force them to wait out the entire instance if possible.

Someone actually did this to my group in a PF World of Darkness run. I believe he is now on a few people's blacklists. lol

I'm pretty sure that happened to me yesterday. Got normal WP for hard roulette with a new person, and the tank disconnected after the first pull (nothing had even gone wrong but w/e). We carried on to right before the first boss and waited a few minutes longer but he didn't come back, so we dismissed and got another tank and got through it just fine.

Probably, but good luck managing to ever prove it.

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Originally Posted by 314159265358979323846264338327

Probably, but good luck managing to ever prove it.

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That really is the problem isn't it. Maybe if enough people report these guys that can help with investigation.

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Originally Posted by thunderbreak

That really is the problem isn't it. Maybe if enough people report these guys that can help with investigation.

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Think about the witch-hunt this is gonna start tho. Just kick the person and move on. Blacklist em if you want.

That moment when someone has a bad connection, and has a legit DC after a botched pull. Happens a little more often than you think. So let's just report the guy who went offline after a pull, he's obviously avoiding penalty.

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Originally Posted by monochromicorn

That moment when someone has a bad connection, and has a legit DC after a botched pull. Happens a little more often than you think. So let's just report the guy who went offline after a pull, he's obviously avoiding penalty.

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yeah, ive gotten about 5 90k's total so far while in a dungeon
so far ive not been kicked, maybe becuase im usually back in within like 3 minutes

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Originally Posted by aisustrong

yeah, ive gotten about 5 90k's total so far while in a dungeon
so far ive not been kicked, maybe becuase im usually back in within like 3 minutes

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Even though my comment was saturated with sarcasm, this Is what proves my point

The thing about blacklist, doesn't it only stop them talking to you (hiding their comments from chat and blocking their tells) not whether will end up in party with them again?

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Originally Posted by monochromicorn

That moment when someone has a bad connection, and has a legit DC after a botched pull. Happens a little more often than you think. So let's just report the guy who went offline after a pull, he's obviously avoiding penalty.

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Does 10 mins sound reasonable to power cycle PC/Router, restart client, re-login to you? You are telling everyone we are assuming the worst, and yet you are assuming the worst of us.

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Originally Posted by thunderbreak

Does 10 mins sound reasonable to power cycle PC/Router, restart client, re-login to you? You are telling everyone we are assuming the worst, and yet you are assuming the worst of us.

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I've had longer than ten minutes to log back in. I got DC, couldn't even pull up the log in screen for 4 minutes, then went through several "errors" that didn't get me past the menu, either going through the login again and then sometimes even restartING the program. It is entirely possible to have a legit DC for longer than 10 minutes.

And I never assumed anything from anyone, but gave a completely possible scenario and the actions that would be taken, according to all other posters in the thread.

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Originally Posted by thunderbreak

Does 10 mins sound reasonable to power cycle PC/Router, restart client, re-login to you? You are telling everyone we are assuming the worst, and yet you are assuming the worst of us.

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I've had the "You're still logged in" message persist for that long before on more than one occasion. It's not impossible.

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Originally Posted by monochromicorn

I've had longer than ten minutes to log back in. I got DC, couldn't even pull up the log in screen for 4 minutes, then went through several "errors" that didn't get me past the menu, either going through the login again and then sometimes even restartING the program. It is entirely possible to have a legit DC for longer than 10 minutes.

And I never assumed anything from anyone, but gave a completely possible scenario and the actions that would be taken, according to all other posters in the thread.

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So if any scenario is possible, you will entertain the possibility of people cheating the system and put others in an inconvenient spot then?

Either way, these people should have a 30 min penalty if vote kicked 3 times in a day. Its sadly ironic that people who get vote kicked (Cheating, AFK, harrassment, etc) dont get a penalty, yet those who willingly leave will have to suffer a 30m penalty.

I've seen more more trolls, cheats, "disconnectors"get vote kicked than people who vote-kicked unfairly.

Couple a weeks ago, we were running FCoB and our NIN DCd, about 10-15 mins later his char is still in world with the DC symbol and he is unable to log back in.

Uncontrollable things can and do happen. I've had it where my connection to the internet has suddenly dropped off (couldnt resolve DNS blah blah) during dungeon runs. I bet I aint the only one that has happened to either.
What I'm getting to is that there is no way to tell the difference between a forced DC and an actual DC.

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Originally Posted by myahele

Either way, these people should have a 30 min penalty if vote kicked 3 times in a day. Its sadly ironic that people who get vote kicked (Cheating, AFK, harrassment, etc) dont get a penalty, yet those who willingly leave will have to suffer a 30m penalty.

I've seen more more trolls, cheats, "disconnectors"get vote kicked than people who vote-kicked unfairly.

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Worst thing about that is they can reque in progress and get put back into the party they were just kicked from, there should be a small lock out (5 minutes?) to prevent that happening. Which will prevent them from rejoining the same party. but not be too much of an issue if kicked unfairly.

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Originally Posted by CGMidlander

I've had the "You're still logged in" message persist for that long before on more than one occasion. It's not impossible.

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I don't doubt you, but can your example be true to every scenario when this happens?

When I was leveling my Monk I was doing low level roulette around 4 am, it took a while to pop and like 5 times in row when I got in the tank DC instantly, it was the same tank every time. It took me like 2-3 hours to clear the low level roulette thanks to this tank, because I could only complete it when I got completely other tank. He was probably trying to get normal mode primal from roulette and he could have just completed the roulette faster normal if he would have done it normal way instead of being a manchild. It was really infuriating as this was in 2.4, so the low level roulette wait times were terrible, but thankfully decent speed at morning hours. In the end I reported him and moved on, so lesson of the story fake dc's happen and I hope he got reprimanded by GM at least.

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Originally Posted by thunderbreak

So if any scenario is possible, you will entertain the possibility of people cheating the system and put others in an inconvenient spot then?

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It is completely possible, and no way to tell the difference between a legit DC and someone being a d**k. I myself gladly take the penalty, if I am to the point that I will quit, I need that timeout. I myself see no reason to try and cheat it.

I have turned my system off, forgetting that it didn't log me out, as I was thinking about something else, like my wife who was a week overdue on the baby, and started having contractions, which ended up being false. About 7 minutes later, I came back on, explained what happened, and were ok with it.

Yes, it's a thing. Right now you're gonna see it a few times in WoD with people looking for a certain item. I also know people who do it on roulette, they queue as tanks and if they get a dungeon they don't like, they close the client and wait.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Couple a weeks ago, we were running FCoB and our NIN DCd, about 10-15 mins later his char is still in world with the DC symbol and he is unable to log back in.

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I've had multiple cases where an FCmate has DCed and we actually had to tell them on TS when their character finally disappeared so that they could log back in because it took so long. It's not an uncommon occurrence at all.

I've some time to spend, so happened to agree with others to just go afk some time and wait the smart guy relog, to all of us give him a warm "Welcome back" when he relogs thinking to have been kicked out.

I don't know though, I used to get disconnected due to power failure for about 15 minutes. Once I logged back on, the party didn't kick me out and actually just beat Xande. Felt pretty bad though, but anyway, it's something that I couldn't control on my end there, that power failure.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

I've some time to spend, so happened to agree with others to just go afk some time and wait the smart guy relog, to all of us give him a warm "Welcome back" when he relogs thinking to have been kicked out.

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Heh. We don't even AFK. We keep going depending on dungeon. If we have a SMN around we'll grab titan egi and keep going. And once the guy did come back and went. "Why didn't you kick me?" Well because we had friends that legit DCed mid runs and took 5 min to first leave the game and then another 5 minutes to log back in.

It's a cheap way to avoid conflict/confrontation when someone wants to abandon a party. After ten years of playing MMOs, I honestly doubt that it has to do with wanting to avoid the penalty 90% of the time -- they just don't want to have to deal with looking like that guy who left party or voted abandon, so they just shut down the client and let the party wonder if they legit DC'd or not. Although it is funny when they make the mistake of logging back on too quickly :p

Same thing happened to me the other day. Arrive in Halitali HM. Tank immediately announces the BRD is too undergeared and he wont run, and wants us to kick him. Stands doing nothing.

What we do? Didn't kick, just ran on, i tanked as blm and we got thru it no problem. Kicked him right before end boss just so he got no bonus/relic drop. We had to go a bit slower, but w/e, we didn't wipe. Ironically, it prob would've been quicker for him to just ditch at the beginning and take the 30 min penalty

uhh yea its been a thing since near launch it's called fake dc so you should always wait 5 mins to kick to catch them

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Originally Posted by ruskie

Heh. We don't even AFK. We keep going depending on dungeon. If we have a SMN around we'll grab titan egi and keep going. And once the guy did come back and went. "Why didn't you kick me?" Well because we had friends that legit DCed mid runs and took 5 min to first leave the game and then another 5 minutes to log back in.

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Remember the T9 DF guy... we Dfed it for the lols n mby to help some ppl even if our xp was like "oh we reached heavensfall". After 2-3 wipes in phase 1 (we hit 3 firsttimers so what you expect?) he started to spam vote abandon and got rejected every time. He then spammed chat with "Kick me kick me" we didnt do him the favour... Then he OH WONDER Dcd and we just knew its one of those fake dcs kept playing 7man and after 20 mins or so he came back and you can only imagine what comments he gave to us ^^

On the other hand real DCs can be a pain.... managed in a busy week to do dr ex with a friend... dcd at last boss qarn hmcouldnt relog 6-8 mins - got kicked...

So I always try to wait for ppl that dcd (namely if their char out n they dont relog for 10 mins they get my kick). But turning off Console/PC to fake a DC... >.>

scrubs and elitists alike have been using the "crash log" method to bypass the 30 min lockout since it was added. its funny when you dont kick em and they come back in 5 min like "wtf why am i still here?" lol

Of course it is.

I'm not the kind of person who does that sort of thing, so if I DC during a dungeon or raid, it's legit. I get back in asap and hope that I haven't been kicked. If I haven't, I thank the party. One time it happened when I was with a couple friends in Labyrinth of the Ancients. The party tried to kick me as soon as I disconnected (my cat had darted by the cords and unplugged my Playstation), but thankfully I was still on Teamspeak with my friends so I told them to stop the kick.

I always give people the benefit of the doubt in disconnect situations. Unless it's obvious that it was an intentional DC, I assume they're trying to come back.

Some people don't even TRY to hide the fact that they're using this as an excuse to bypass the 30-minute abandon penalty. About a month ago, I was in a run that was struggling in Sastasha HM. The healer says something like, "Don't have time for this," and logs out. Doesn't even try to fake a D/C, just logs out, knowing that the folks that remain are going to need to kick him if they want to proceed.

Another time, much longer ago, I was in a group struggling with Titan HM. One of the tanks says, "I have a raid coming up, gotta go," and logs out. The rest of us knew that our odds of actually replacing a tank within the time remaining was slim - and if we'd kicked him, we'd lose a bar of our Limit Gauge, currently the only way we were managing to get past the heart phase. (Yeah, it was a long time ago, and the folks participating really were that green.) So, we just left him in-party. He was furious when he logged back in twenty minutes later and found himself still in the instance, but none of us felt that much sympathy for him. XD

(In both of the above instances we did wind up getting the win, incidentally.)

That said, legitimate D/Cs do happen, and are PROBABLY the most common type of D/C. I'm guessing folks who force a fake D/C aren't as common as the cynics would have you believe. I do tend to get suspicious, though, if someone's D/C just so happens to coincide with a series of wipes...

I wouldn't be so quick to judge, speaking as somebody who has Comcrap as an ISP and who commonly experiences weather-related power outages just because of where I live. I've had my connection drop or my power go out in the middle of raids or dungeons plenty of times. Sometimes I'm able to get back in quickly and apologize profusely for holding everyone up. Sometimes, I'm unable to log back in for hours.

Folks who live somewhere with stable connections and no volatile weather patterns may see a DC and assume someone plugged, but I always assume the other person is just having an issue that is beyond their control.

That mess has been around since 2.0 and it was annoying then, still annoying now.

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Originally Posted by AnaviAnael

Someone actually did this to my group in a PF World of Darkness run. I believe he is now on a few people\\'s blacklists. lol

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Heh, I actually disconnected from a party recently because I was frustrated after lotting w completely useless tanking belt (mid licked greed) and asked to be kicked at first, then just said 'screw it gonna log' and logged out.

Feel bad for the party but eh, we all do stupid shit when frustrated.