Lack of utility combat actions across classes

I am quite new to the game, leveled bard to 50 and now starting to explore the other classes. What struck me as odd is the utter lack of "utility" actions.
There are almost no situational actions to take, no tools at your disposal to control the battle, help with positioning, crowd control and so on.
I thought the bard very limited since the most I can do is sing a few songs and bind a target or interrupt a spell once every 40 or 30 secs.
Then I realized this is on the more generous side of things as FF XIV utility actions go.

I don't expect the level of say WoW where each classes' toolbox is full of tricks but even compared to a lot of other MMOs the toolbox is quite empty. Heck I feel I can get more utility on D3 chars that only let me equip 6 actions in total.

I would gladly trade some of my DPS cooldown or DOT actions for more utility ones.

Can somebody explain the philosophy or reasons for this?
Can I expect more utility to come with future expansions?

I find that a lot of Bard's utility and where its uses truly shine is honestly more in Coil. A lot of the fights have things that bards are desperately needed for. You need a bard to sing songs or you might wipe and the fact that they can dps and move around makes them the #1 person to go to when there is a mechanic that needs to be moved around.

For example, bards (or smns) were kiters in T7. They were the kiters because they could hit the renaud and then go back to dpsing something else without it lowering their overall dps. With T8, same thing. They had to lead missiles away from the group and do brainjack. Things that required movement and not lower overall dps.

In T10/11, I know that we need a bard for singing.

Even fights like Ramuh are easier with a bard because they have the ability to move around and bait and get on adds all without lowering their dps.

For most of this game, helping with positioning is a situational thing for bard but is usually left to the tanks. Crowd control is both bard and BLM. I think you just need more experience with different fights to know for sure what a bard can bring to the table.

All of the DPS classes are this way. Boring, generic rotations with a stun thrown in. It's an issue that's made it very hard to keep my friends playing the game unless there playing Tank or Healers. Even then, there's only so much to do.

It amazes me that the company that created the Red Mage with 100+ spells in FFXI has been reduced to this 3-5 skill rotation dryness.

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Originally Posted by GodAlmighty

All of the DPS classes are this way. Boring, generic rotations with a stun thrown in. It's an issue that's made it very hard to keep my friends playing the game unless there playing Tank or Healers. Even then, there's only so much to do.

It amazes me that the company that created the Red Mage with 100+ spells in FFXI has been reduced to this 3-5 skill rotation dryness.

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Amen to this.

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Originally Posted by GodAlmighty

All of the DPS classes are this way. Boring, generic rotations with a stun thrown in. It's an issue that's made it very hard to keep my friends playing the game unless there playing Tank or Healers. Even then, there's only so much to do.

It amazes me that the company that created the Red Mage with 100+ spells in FFXI has been reduced to this 3-5 skill rotation dryness.

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Yup. Battle system needs to be re-designed with a hybrid of FFXI and FFXIV. I liked building TP through hitting the monsters, not just having it like a MP pool. I cannot keep my friends playing either, they don't like the boring combat.

Hmm, seems I am not alone in the sentiment.

@Ophie-Mio Thanks for the end game heads up, good to know there is at least some kiting going on :) But to be honest, pardon my WoW comparison, I was kiting Drakki in UBRS or Razorgore adds 10 years ago in vanilla WOW and had a pet, Feign Death, Traps, Distracting and Concussive Shot, Wyvern and Viper Sting, Aspects, Flare etc on top of it. That was vanilla. Over the years the toolbox only grew (Disengage, Misdirection, Camouflage, Master's call...). Those are the kinds of abilities I am talking about. So that when shit hits the fan I have tools to get it under control or when planning a combat strategy going beyond tank&spank.

Well I hope they will add some utils in the future and that the endgame fights are interesting even using the current options.

I guess I can understand on the "utility" side of things that there is little that your skills do other than damage.

If you're bored though, play Dragoon. Your jumps add in bit of "utility" flair you will certainly not be lacking on having to think about what your most optimal moves are. Your buffs and debuffs are all on different timers so there's no set rotation that you can really blindly follow (and fight mechanics that make you stop attacking like AoE's really throw any "rotation" idea for a dragoon out of the window). Even if you could stand still and wail all day, your rotation is something like 30 abilities used before you "repeat" (where your buffs/debuffs end at the same time your "rotation" starts from scratch again). Definitely keeps you on your toes.

You get a stun, a slow, and three jumps that change your position. Otherwise everything else you do just does damage, though you do apply a debuff that increases other lancer's and bard's damage.

Also, PvP has a whole section of PvP-specific abilities that almost all revolve around utility (lancers get a throw that removes sprint, an attack that reduces intelligence, an attack that increases critical hit rate, a "purge" that removes all debuffs, a "ward" abilities that prevents you from being CC'd, a % heal etc. etc.) So if you want those "utility" abilities then PvP is where you want to go.

You've pretty much voiced the same concerns I've had about ARR from the beginning. I hate citing FFXI as a source, since they're both very different in how they approach gameplay, but while most people will admit it had a ton of useless spells, each job had a lot more utility than their FFXIV counterparts.

I don't really want 1000 different abilities taking over my screen that are situational and useless 99% of the time, most mmo's are moving away from that and streamlining things, less abilities that you actually use alot of the time...instead of tons of abilities you rare ever bother with...and im sure we'll get a few new ones with the new level cap

I totally agree with that this games combat gets boring/repetitive very quickly, it makes me miss SW:TOR combat a little bit (but not SW:TOR cuz FTP TOTALLY RUINED IT)
At least there I could choose between a repetitive sustained rotation or a "BWAHHAHAHAHAH DIEEEEEE" burst combo that leaves my resources depleted and the mobs very dead and me out of the fight a minute, because personally I find it fun to have options!
Right now the only thing that chews up our TP or MP uber quick is aoe rotations, which for some class's is just 1-2 buttons...BORING

I've already tried to bring some attention to this issue, though many players seem to just want the same old 1 2 3 with the occasional 4 thrown in for excitement. Here is the thread I made on the subject:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Customization

I think the big problem is that a lot of players can't even keep up with their basic rotation.
I'm sure you've all got that monk in DF that never goes past greased lightning 1
or that black mage that still uses transpose instead of fire3/blizzard3
or that summoner that spams ruin 2 over and over

I would love a more complex battle system with more abilities and especially faster GCD as I think 2,5 seconds is waay too long.
but I feel like overall most people cant even 1-2-3 and SE wants every single casual player to subscribe so they are making it too easy so people new to mmo's wont feel overwhelmed I feel

It would be nice if the 2-3 job utility buttons we got even worked half the time. I haven't used Feint since level 15; all noteworthy enemies are immune to Slow. Freeze? Lethar-what? There's some kind of Ninjutsu that binds things? What're those?

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Originally Posted by Sanicek

I am quite new to the game, leveled bard to 50 and now starting to explore the other classes.

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You take the easiest class, bard, to play and probably never tried to really master it and try to get top DPS, because it sure isn't to master. And you complain about utility? Master the core of it first and then see where the utility falls. There is so much utility that a bard brings to a group, and the mute (non-singing) bards often get other players upset, and yet you want to complicate things more for them. When everyone's already got their hands full with Imdugud, the last thing they need is more utility that need to do, as if baiting tail swipes, switching from ballad to foes and keeping up the DPS is not enough.

And on the flip side just recently on these forums you had a WHM crying about having to get swiftcast.

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Originally Posted by Sanicek

I don't expect the level of say WoW where each classes' toolbox is full of tricks

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Which WoW is this based on? TBC?

I too agree with your sentiment.

I feel like 2.0 has been intentionally designed to be extremely simple, newbie friendly, and balanced because they had to get a game out the door in 2 years, and it had to be successful out the gate.
That's probably the main reason why this game lacks a lot of utility actions and has some mechanically boring jobs like PLD. It needed to have a strong core and to play safe.

It does however have a pretty good balance compared to most MMOs that suffer from the need to completely rebalance some classes with each patch, at the cost of being a little bland. So if that truly was the devs' intent, it was a wise decision.

Unless they somehow became lazy or want to keep playing really safe, I expect 3.0 to spice things up on that front.

A lot of newer MMORPGS are bringing back character progression in the form of talent trees but most of them removed character levels.

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Originally Posted by Ryamatsu

Yup. Battle system needs to be re-designed with a hybrid of FFXI and FFXIV. I liked building TP through hitting the monsters, not just having it like a MP pool. I cannot keep my friends playing either, they don't like the boring combat.

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So standing their doing nothing while your char auto attacks to build TP is more exciting than actualy using abilities 100% of the time. Explain how that is more involving than using abilities 100% of the time instead of only when you have watched paint dry until you have the TP to do one attack, watch some grass grow, do another attack, stab your self in the leg to keep awake, another attack, open account management and cancel account due to the lack of involvement in the combat, do another attack.......

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Originally Posted by Krr

It would be nice if the 2-3 job utility buttons we got even worked half the time. I haven't used Feint since level 15; all noteworthy enemies are immune to Slow. Freeze? Lethar-what? There's some kind of Ninjutsu that binds things? What're those?

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Hey! Lethargy is useful in T5 and on Amon adds!

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Originally Posted by Krr

It would be nice if the 2-3 job utility buttons we got even worked half the time. I haven't used Feint since level 15; all noteworthy enemies are immune to Slow. Freeze? Lethar-what? There's some kind of Ninjutsu that binds things? What're those?

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Bind is an absolute joke in this game. In fact, most 'enfeebles' are reduced to obscurity in ARR. I remember being able to silence BOSS monsters in FFXI... and for more than 2 seconds at a time.

Very few jobs actually have debuffs, and most of those which do only last 10 seconds. I think Virus is literally the only long duration debuff in the game, and even that comes with the heavy caveat of making the mob immune to it afterwards. I for one would welcome the return of debuffs which mean something. While we're at it, bring back the more interesting player debuffs as well.

I'm talking about Confusion, Charm (and not the easily removed one from Siren), and the dreaded Zombie status. Remember taking damage from healing magic? Hilarity and chaos ensues. Remember Rams which used to lower your maximum HP? Hmm, probably not if you never did Lufaise Meadows Limit point parties, but I remember well.

Combat had more... depth. It was rich and deliciously full of twists and turns. I'm not expecting the same system in ARR, but it would be nice to at least have a flavour besides vanilla to choose from.