1st I'm well aware this is probably pointless as the changes will most likely go ahead.
2nd Yes its my 2nd post on the subject. (but is a bit off topic for the other one)
3rd its probably going to get trolled lol
But for those interested just for the discussion. Do you think something along the lines of this would be a more balanced approach, giving both for and against camps a lot of what they want, without totally changing the system.
While giving the Dev's a route to add more crafted gear without new components.
Recipe book
A new interface to show components needed and how to make said components
i.e you click "Big Choppa" in the book, you get to chose:
- Craft (if you have th ecomponents)
- Components List (this takes you toa new page and the same applys again)
Streamlines and fun(?) crafting interface
Components take 2-4 success (dependent on size/type)
HQ'ing an item is done after this, allowing mass production and quality crafting to be split so the masses don't need to worry (can still occasional get a random HQ in production)
R01-20 Items (average sucess needed to complete a synth 3)
R21-40 Items (average needed to complete a synth 5/6)
R40-50 Items ( Current system basically )
Reuse of low level components in New Hi rank gear
- Using the copper/willow/hemp components along with some more gear appropriate ranked items in the crafting of new hi and mid ranked gear would stimulate the economy and hopefully get these less used lower items pushed into production and sale.
- Along with helping newer players giving them something to sell on into the market.
- The lower ranked items could also be needed in greater numbers for the higher ranked items keeping the cost down to help with low ranked gear/item production.
-It would also be a good route for SE to add more gear over time to push production within the economy onto low sale/production items
Streamlining and small reduction in the number of components
I think any major reduction would need to be done post all the other changes or could end up being over/under done, in most areas.
Those where we have several similarly ranked items of the same type some could be reduced at the opening stage.
Rebalancing of item component Levels.
No more R30 items needed for R10 gear
The edition of the dye system SE will be implimenting.
See SE changes list
Secondary Skill Requirements Apply to HQ'ing an item
Crafting Facility and Treatise Requirements Apply to HQ'ing an item
This would allow casual people to just run off needed items, and the crafter's to have a place within the game and create the better items.
But being rewarded for the amounts of extra work HQ gear would take.
(Ye old effort reward thing, much like those willing to spend ages working on a new dungeon boss get the best gear 1st).
Huge improvements to the wards system (or the move to a AH)
I'd prefer to stay out of this one atm, but change would be needed to support this kind of move.
Edit:
Oww a Requests bored for crafter's to ask for items and offer a reward
(would cost something to put up and be limited to 1-2 posts maybe but dunno needs more thought)
Alternative Crafting Changes Proposal
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08-19-2011, 07:57 PMEskAlternative Crafting Changes Proposal
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08-19-2011, 08:02 PMTonyMontana
I think they should add a 3% HQ bonus chance for every craft a crafter has at R50 on every synth. So like me I have 7 R50s I would have a 21% bonus chance at getting a HQ item when i craft :)
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08-19-2011, 08:32 PMOscillate_Wildly
Too bad this would take too much time and effort on behalf of the dev team. :/ But I'm all for it. It just seems they're more into "Conserving time" which translates to "Be as lazy as possible with systems we don't give a ripping shit about, while with each patch, sweep it even further under the rug."
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08-19-2011, 11:03 PMEskThink that's a little harsh, I don't think they are actually being lazy, 1.19 has a huge amount of changes, rushed might be a better way to look at it. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Oscillate_Wildly
An oh well, I had hoped this would start a constructive debate, or get flamed but hi light the points made in the other threads and offer a different way to solve the issue, that actually address the core of the problem as well.
But seems not lol -
08-20-2011, 03:18 AMDrew
It's a Different approace. Not sure I agree but as we have more info coming soon I will wait for that before I decide.
It looks like were losing the one part regardles, ashame but lets hope Materia is a lot more complex then it sounds. -
08-20-2011, 03:32 AMWynn
I like a lot of your suggestions. The only one that gives me pause is the lower level mats used in higher level recipes. We have that going on now with certain mats, like sheepskin, and what it ends up causing is a huge inflation to the price of a low level mat that starting crafters simply can't afford.
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08-20-2011, 03:44 AMEskAgreed it would be an area that would have needed some work, that's why I said to increase the amount needed on hi rank items to a point where it forces down the cost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynn
(Drop rates increased, amount produces per craft increased to stabilise the prices at a sensible level, are all other options to balance it.)
But more people would see an chance to make some gil if the wards were better or players have some sort of requests bored. (once we start to have more players and gil sinks that is more so true).
And if the items are needed for End game good gear, they would have a demand in the market and a need in crafting. -
08-20-2011, 04:04 AMMefit
The thing you guys are missing is
1 People have things like Jobs and Lives, bring crafting down to the point it looks like FF11 was just getting out of the way the things that make crafting take more time than its worth !
2 When the Relaunch happens there will be more items and gear in Bazaars than it every was in this game x100 ! This is more inviting to newer players !
3 Most adults have a life , work , and family ! This is a attempt to allow those who have less time to play be able to still play decently without being held up by meaningless farming and crafting parts that makes the game feel more like work than a game !
These aren't bad changes , through these changes it is going to open the market up to more in it and help players be able to keep a good amount in their bazaar at decent prices ! It is sad that 1-10 items gear cost more than 20-50 items gear !
I THIS UMAD BRAH! Sorry had too lol
Stop worrying about positive changes because you worked hard to get where you are at and now everyone will have a simpler time getting there. You will still have a edge because you are there now and others are not ! Now you will be able to push 50x More items in a short time and make BIG $$ before thousands of players cetch up and lower the market to a playable system that YES will undercut your current prices ! Its a game and you guys are getting upset over something so simple it is truely funny ! -
08-20-2011, 04:10 AMMefit
To add too it, I am here to enjoy a vast game with large amounts of people ! Not a game of so called Elites who are being greedy in a game ! If players walk into a game where they can get gear/items/weapons at a reasonable rate , plus get into crafting without having to find parts that were a cool thought but too much to deal with in the long run , and to top it off this will do more for the Bazaar market than it is now ! There will still be items that will not be easy to craft and items in a craft that will be needed to be farmed though LS work that will be sold to make good gil ! In the long run , you are upset about nothing more than your loss of shortage of crafters in our economy and now there will be a healthy amount of crafting getting into it !
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08-20-2011, 04:14 AMWynnYou assume far too much and quite frankly it is offensive. I too have a full time job, a spouse, and a life.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mefit
What many of us self proclaimed "true crafters" are unhappy with is our content is being marginalized to the point of triviality. I say our content because this is what we choose to do above all else. Given the choice to go party or craft, I will choose crafting.
The battle classes raged over the fact that things die too easy and was too easy to solo and too much xp. They wanted it harder! This is no different. We crafters are saying you are making this too easy and taking the fun out of our favorite thing to do in game. This is really a difference of outlook between people who main-class crafter jobs and psuedo-crafters who would rather be in a battle party but craft on the side because they need/want gear or are waiting for a party to go kill stuff.
You don't understand our position because you are not one of us. -
08-20-2011, 04:17 AMDoctorMog
If they keep beating the systems in this game down to their simplest forms, the game will be easy as hell, have no complexity and drive away players who WANT more than 1 button mashing mindless game mechanics.
Some complexity is NOT a bad thing. -
08-20-2011, 04:52 AMEsk
@Mefit
You do know you sound like a ... meh not worth it...
Time management is also a thing most adults do or need to learn to do then.
Especially if they have kids, and a job, and a social life.
1st Your making massive assumptions implying people (and me) are not working as we like a system with depth that isn't a instant gratification fix..
2nd wholly missing the point that I would love and am promoting a system to be more casual friendly and less time consuming.
By proposing to reduce the number of items, improve the crafting system so its faster and cleaner and more intuitive, and will allow players to just drop in and out of it.
Unless they what that uber +3, then and only then to make them for work for it the same way DoW should have too.
3rd Your also assuming people will suddenly like the market wards, put those needed items on retainers, not still charge over the top prices, craft low level items, yada, yada, yada...
And if your assumption is right everyone will sell things then were likely going to see a massive devaluation of gear and make those people will large amounts of gill seem ever better off.
4th The problem is unless the new changes up SP and hugely cut down on time in the mini game, they wont change anything much for the casual gamer.
(those poor masses who have no time cos they have a job and a life, oh shi.. wait that means me but.. meh again...)
They still need to find mats off several classes (based on the example we have) or level all the classes needed for that item.
Then craft god knows how many items.
Edit:
Oh and i forgot to say, I hate how long it takes to craft anything atm, it puts me off..
But that's actually more the mini game then the components.. actually its totally that the depth is why i keep trying to have a go at it, i do enough building in EvE.
The changes were getting don't sound like they will do nowt to fix that, just free up some retainer space, -
08-20-2011, 06:05 AMWynnI like your whole attitude and approach to this, Esk. I also feel that crafting does take too long. I am not opposed to streamlining crafting. It needs it, badly. But what I'm so worried about right now is it sounds like they are gutting the system needlessly. It is like amputating to cure a broken bone. It doesn't make sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Esk
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08-22-2011, 07:53 PMAmineriI agree that some form of in-game recipe list is needed. At launch, finding recipes was part of the game challenge, especially since all the recipes are stored server side to prevent them being dat-mined, but nowadays all the recipes are accessible through 3rd party websites, so what is the point of them not being accessible in-game?Quote:
Originally Posted by Esk
To be honest, there are synths rather like this already. I was making Blue Coral Arrows (at 6 ranks above me), which are a decent practice recipe, and something that I can sell for modest profit (which is completely my preference). Between the skills (Perfection) and (Assemble), it's not uncommon for me to take only 5 steps to complete the synth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Esk
That said, a reduction in the number of steps for the simpler low level items would make sense, in my opinion.
This is often a big issue. If lower rank gathered/hunted materials are only used for lower rank items, they quickly become valueless (see copper ore for example), but if they are used in high-rank synths, they become too expensive for the low rank items (see Sheepskin for an example).Quote:
Originally Posted by Esk
The only way I see out of this is similar to how EVE does it : low rank-items use ONLY the low-rank mats, and far fewer of them, while the high-rank items use many low-rank mats and fewer high-rank mats. Balancing it all is tricky, but ideally very little gathered/hunted material should be going to the NPC vendors.
My impression on this is that the recipes were created in order to match the physical look of the gear as much as possible. This is why early-rank MRD axes require Red Buffalo Leather straps, for example.Quote:
Originally Posted by Esk
Designing recipe balance based on how an artist designed the look of a piece of gear isn't particularly good game design. :)
There are alternatives to trying to force more functionality in the markets. Functionality could be added to the crafting guilds, making them mini-markets dealing in the parts and materials related to their craft. The NPC merchants at the craft guilds already sell some parts and materials. However to not compete with player crafter/merchants, the prices are very high.Quote:
Originally Posted by Esk
As an alternative, let the craft guilds post task order to players (could use the current task board) to supply parts and materials that are used in that craft. The player gets paid (and possibly bonus SP), and the items are then re-listed (at a slight mark-up) and sold to players. Players would then know that they could go to the appropriate crafting guild in order to acquire the parts and materials needed.
Finally, I'd like to plug my own little niche, a specialization system and re-purposing of the treatise system, located here.