Some revelations about the Ascians (Patch 2.5 MAJOR SPOILERS)

So...now that the hype is starting to settle down a bit, here's some interesting things I've noted about the patch related to the Ascians, among them:

- Nabriales was kind of the prima-donna among them (wanting to rise above them all to be his lord's right hand), suggesting that they're not quite as "hive-minded" as we were led to believe.

- Lahabrea and Elidibus were noted to "being of this world" unlike the rest of the Ascians.

- Nabriales, aside from revealing about Lousoix's staff true function also mentions about the horn they have in their possession since 1.0 (could it mean that he's actually Travanchet?).

- Elidibus actually wants Minfilia alive/unharmed (personal reasons? or something else entirely?)

Very interesting all around...although this does reveal quite a bit, this also rises a lot of questions regarding their structure and overall purpose as a group.

Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Exodus-E

- Nabriales, aside from revealing about Lousoix's staff true function also mentions about the horn they have in their possession since 1.0 (could it mean that he's actually Travanchet?).

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I believe he was talking about the horn on top of Tupsimati.

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Originally Posted by Exodus-E

Lahabrea and Elidibus were noted to "being of this world" unlike the rest of the Ascians.

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I caught that, too. I don't really know what to make of it quite yet. Even Lahabrea spoke of this world's true form. Could Nabriales be so much older? Or perhaps from another?

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Originally Posted by Exodus-E

Could it mean that he's actually Travanchet?

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Though the lore team has been tight lipped about most things Ascian, we we able to get confirmation at Fan Fest that Travanchet was an underling, similar to the black-masked hyuran mages such as the one you kill in your city introduction. He was an Elezen whose name was Travanchet, whose body was "dark crystalled." It's possible that the specific mention of the horn and tablet may have been a nod to 1.0 players that remember the Limsa Lominsa story but don't read lore forum posts and interviews. It's also possible that it foreshadows the appearance of other like-fashioned relics...

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Originally Posted by Exodus-E

Elidibus actually wants Minfilia alive/unharmed

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This is an another interesting claim by Nabriales. I'm not quite sure what it entails, but if you take what the game has told you at face value, you can make a guess that the Ascians just don't like when people go off-script. They clearly have their own individual beliefs and preferences, and they clearly don't all like and/or trust one another implicitly, but they do tend to work together and report to one another. Even when Elidibus went AWOL to speak with Minfilia and the Warrior of Light out of (what he claimed to be) sheer curiosity, the others got on his case about it.

A couple more things I noticed

• Like Lahabrea, a read glyph appears over Nabirales face when he attacks. Also like Lahabrea, the glyph is a small part of the larger sigil associated with the Esper tied to the Scion of Light that bore the Ascian's name in Final Fantasy XII, Cúchulainn, the Impure.

• We visit Ascian Hall, aka the Chrysalis. After the fight is over, if you move the camera just right to look over the edge, you can see a swirling mass of light and clouds that looks a bit like a galaxy. Call me crazy if you will, but I'm wondering if perhaps this be the opposite side of the Starshower seen in Hydaelyn's visions that was seen in Eorzea in 1562...

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

EDIT INCOMING

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I can't stand this waiting :x

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

• We visit Ascian Hall, aka the Chrysalis. After the fight is over, if you move the camera just right to look over the edge, you can see a swirling mass of light and clouds that looks a bit like a galaxy. Call me crazy if you will, but I'm wondering if perhaps this be the opposite side of the Starshower seen in Hydaelyn's visions that was seen in Eorzea in 1562...

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That's an interesting take on it, and we can see that Ascians do have the ability to call down starfall/meteor. Maybe some had fallen through the rift?

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

It's also possible that it foreshadows the appearance of other like-fashioned relics...

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I am convinced that this is going to explain Free Company Primal Summoning. The horn on Tupsimati certainly gave Lou more control over his summoning than any of the tribes displayed, he not only withheld the Twelves full power, but controlled it to try and reforge Dalamud. Meanwhile every other summoning we have seen just has the Primal popping out of the sky and attempting murder. I'm imagining we'll take Tupsimati (or another such relic) and use it to simply bring Ifrit in to do Hellfire before sending him off in a similar sort of fashion.

Wondering about the origin of these horns now, Tupsimatis was said to be "passed down from antiquity" (from the anniversary stuff). I wonder if each City-State has/had one? I know it's not happening now that we get Alexander in 3.0, but I always liked the concept of the Twelve being Alexander split apart (ala IX) to protect his followers. Each horn would then be similar to the 4 city crystals IX had.

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Originally Posted by Exodus-E

- Lahabrea and Elidibus were noted to "being of this world" unlike the rest of the Ascians.

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I wonder how literal this might be... I can see them simply meaning "of this era", meaning Lahabrea and Elidibus are simply Echo users who "ascended" somewhat recently, I imagine that's what Elidibus has in mind for Minfilia too. If it really is an alien invasion plot (hi Final Fantasy IV and IX), then it certainly makes sense for Elidibus to be an emissary, though Lahabrea an overlord?

Makes me wonder if "The Rejoining" is simply this;
http://socksmakepeoplesexy.net/images/ff9/memoria2.png

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Originally Posted by Exodus-E

- Lahabrea and Elidibus were noted to "being of this world" unlike the rest of the Ascians.

Thoughts?

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My first thought was that Lahabrea was possessing Thancred during our encounters with him and Thancred is most defiantly a "being of this world" so maybe because his host was free to come and go despite the light's protection, then so was Lahabrea. If this is the case Elibibus could also be possessing someone.

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Originally Posted by Magis

Maybe some had fallen through the rift?

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The starshower is mostly seen in Hydaelyn's visions, but it was an actual event that occurred in 1562. From what I can tell, it was shortly after the Battle of Silvertear Skies, because the starshower appeared over Ul'dah just after Warburton (Minfilia's father) stole Imperial research on primals to deliver to Eorzea. My guess is that he knew why the Empire moved on Silvertear and knew the implications of the battle's failure. The most likely scenario I can think of so far is that it was the opening of a massive Voidgate and the intrusion of the Ascian overlords, just because Hydaelyn shows it to you over and over as if saying, This is your enemy. This must be stopped.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

I am convinced that this is going to explain Free Company Primal Summoning.

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Very possible! Though, Iceheart reveals another possibility. As Echo users ourselves, perhaps we can play host to the primal's essence. Can you imagine a Summoner finally getting not only the chance to call the Ifrit, but to, for a moment be Ifrit? They did say they had to wait to implement the mechanic until the lore allowed it.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

simply bring Ifrit in to do Hellfire before sending him off in a similar sort of fashion.

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This is the part that I get hung up on. Louisoix had no way of stopping the physical manifestation of aether-chugging primals taking the form of the Twelve. He planned to kill himself to interrupt the ritual and prevent it - the only thing that stopped him was Bahamut. It's easy to miss that even if Cartenau didn't play out the way it did, he wasn't coming home.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Wondering about the origin of these horns now, Tupsimatis was said to be "passed down from antiquity" (from the anniversary stuff)

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The materials of the staff that the Ascian attempted to help into the Sahagin's hands was from "an ancient marine society" whose language only a few, learned scholars still understood. The staff may very well have been from a previous Era's society. Another interesting puzzle piece is that the language on the tablet has some connections to the Sahagin themselves. Makes you wonder if there's some subtle hint about beast tribe origins, there.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

I always liked the concept of the Twelve being Alexander split apart (ala IX) to protect his followers. Each horn would then be similar to the 4 city crystals IX had.

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That's actually part of my current theory of the primals, that the six great elemental spirits, or whatever you'd like to call them, are at their core, in their essence, facets of Hydaelyn's power given many names over the ages. Fire's spirit living strong in desert societies (Azeyma, Nald'thal, Ifrit, Belias, etc.), Water's spirit living strong in marine societies (Thaliak, Nymeia, Leviatian, etc.). Harnessed by people blessed of Hydaelyn's power, they become deiform themselves and fight for the light. When this ritual is corrupted by Ascians, however, it summons them without anchor and creates what are essentially massively powerful rogue elementals shaped by zeal. Like I said, though, just a theory... still working on whether to build that house of cards or wait for more information, lol. Still, between Urianger's comments and Minfilia's powerpoint presentation, and the idea that Midgardsormr may have made his covenant to Hydaelyn in such a way that the world of man remembered it as him being created by the gods of water and earth (Althyk and Nymeia), it's starting to look like a viable theory.

I think this has probably been mentioned before, but there were 14 pedestals (for lack of a better term) cascading around Zodiark. If we reference the Ivalice games, we only know of 12 beings (13 if you count Serpentarius) associated with the Zodiac.

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Originally Posted by Orophin

I think this has probably been mentioned before, but there were 14 pedestals (for lack of a better term) cascading around Zodiark. If we reference the Ivalice games, we only know of 12 beings (13 if you count Serpentarius) associated with the Zodiac.

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Could one of them be for Zodiark himself, figuratively?
Or a "guest pedestal", for when someone get summoned to their realm maybe?

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Originally Posted by WellFooled

My first thought was that Lahabrea was possessing Thancred during our encounters with him and Thancred is most defiantly a "being of this world" so maybe because his host was free to come and go despite the light's protection, then so was Lahabrea. If this is the case Elibibus could also be possessing someone.

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This is exactly my thought on the subject

Gaius had implied that Primals and The Twelve were 'Eikons, every one'.

I do like how they doubled down on that premise by explaining how Louisiox could summon them using people's prayers and the planet's Aether, rather than a metric buttload of crystals.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

This is the part that I get hung up on. Louisoix had no way of stopping the physical manifestation of aether-chugging primals taking the form of the Twelve. He planned to kill himself to interrupt the ritual and prevent it - the only thing that stopped him was Bahamut. It's easy to miss that even if Cartenau didn't play out the way it did, he wasn't coming home.

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It is hard to say anything without giving FCoB spoilers in regards to that.

My favorite part of 2.5 was part of the last CS.

Nabriales: Noooo! I am Etranal!!!! I am Immortal!!!

Me: YOU!!! ARE DEAD!!!!

I assumed the reason he spared Minfillia (or rather, the other Ascians wouldn't want her dead) was simply because she has the echo. Probably related to how Iceheart can serve host to Shiva, perhaps they value echo users as potential vessels to serve their purposes. I'm sure I'm far from the first to speculate this, but unless there are things about Minfilia we don't know yet it's certainly a sound assumption about what Nabriales meant.

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Originally Posted by Aeliott

I assumed the reason he spared Minfillia (or rather, the other Ascians wouldn't want her dead) was simply because she has the echo.

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My thoughts aswell. The Ascians themselves are echo users and they understand what that power is capable of, if not it's full potential. So, while I still believe they are using the PC and Minfillia to further their scheme, we also have value as a potential ally in the future, granted our control of the echo equals or bests theirs.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

It is hard to say anything without giving FCoB spoilers in regards to that.

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I'd go ahead and spoil it anyways, more than likely, most people have seen the post below about that.

Hopefully the asciens wont pull an organization 13 and start betraying/killing each other; therefore leaving only Lahabrea and Elidibus as the only true ascian threat. But it was interesting to know that each have a different goal/ method in how to awaken Zodiark.

What really got me was how the Chrysalis world looked like it had some kinda of door/gate and how Zodiark's chrystal (?) looked a shattered crystal in suspended animation.

Regarding Elidibus wanting Minfilia alive, and both him and Lahabrea being from our world, couldn't it be possible that both of them were actually people from our world that were chosen to serve Zodiark in the same way that Hydaelyn chose us? And with that in mind, couldn't it be possible, too, that Elidibus was in fact Warburton "ascended" by the dark crystal after the events in pre-1.0 (his aether and "soul" being grabbed by it when he passed away, instead of letting it return to the flow)? That could be another reason why he would want to keep her safe, and why he didn't seem as aggressive as other ascians. Otherwise, why Minfilia and not us? Because they don't seem to care if we live or die.

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Originally Posted by Yshnal

Regarding Elidibus wanting Minfilia alive, and both him and Lahabrea being from our world, couldn't it be possible that both of them were actually people from our world that were chosen to serve Zodiark in the same way that Hydaelyn chose us? And with that in mind, couldn't it be possible, too, that Elidibus was in fact Warburton "ascended" by the dark crystal after the events in pre-1.0 (his aether and "soul" being grabbed by it when he passed away, instead of letting it return to the flow)? That could be another reason why he would want to keep her safe, and why he didn't seem as aggressive as other ascians. Otherwise, why Minfilia and not us? Because they don't seem to care if we live or die.

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Because they want to get away with, and we're just a bunch of meddling kids and our pet dragon!

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Originally Posted by WellFooled

My first thought was that Lahabrea was possessing Thancred during our encounters with him and Thancred is most defiantly a "being of this world" so maybe because his host was free to come and go despite the light's protection, then so was Lahabrea. If this is the case Elibibus could also be possessing someone.

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After you defeat Nabriales, however, you see his aetherial form rise up out of the corpse of his host body in the Solar. He then gestures to destroy the corpse before attempting to flee back through the rift. He was most certainly posessing someone. If he hadn't been then we could have used the White Auracite to trap him straight away.

Either the Ascians have another source of hosts that are not of our world (which poses a whole slew of new questions) or Lahabrea and Elidibus both originate from our world somehow, whilst the rest do not.

Yeah, I somehow think that maybe Lahabrea and Elidibus were originally living people of Eorzea then somehow got the echo and used said echo to transcend, ala Sahagin priest/ Lady Iceheart then joined the Asciens.

It seems as if Lahabrea wants more people of eorzea to "transcend" (become like him and elidibus). Maybe its because if Zodiark awakens then everyone (excluding the asciens) will not be able to survive in the new world. Maybe he and elidibus wants as many people to "transcend" so that they'll survive in the new world/ the rapture?

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Originally Posted by myahele

Yeah, I somehow think that maybe Lahabrea and Elidibus were originally living people of Eorzea then somehow got the echo and used said echo to transcend, ala Sahagin priest/ Lady Iceheart then joined the Asciens.

It seems as if Lahabrea wants more people of eorzea to "transcend" (become like him and elidibus). Maybe its because if Zodiark awakens then everyone (excluding the asciens) will not be able to survive in the new world. Maybe he and elidibus wants as many people to "transcend" so that they'll survive in the new world/ the rapture?

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This is a very strong possibility for the direction of the story. I think as our Echo powers grow we'll come to sympathise with the Ascians a little... As a totally wild speculation I actually think Elidibus may eventually even prove to be our ally.

Something curious I've noticed is how the Ascians refrain from direct combat where possible. Lahabrea, Elidibus and Nabriales all only ever used direct force in self defense. Elidibus and Nabriales both even made a point of telling us that they would only hurt anyone in self defense. Lahabrea seems perfectly happy manipulating others to do all the killing for him, of course, but this is something Elidibus disapproves of... I wonder if there's something stopping them from slaughtering everyone, or if there's a reason they want to keep people alive (and not just Echo users). Or maybe they're just not all as 'bad' as we've been lead to believe...

^

With all the talks of covenants in the recent patch then perhaps Asciens are in a "covenant" that prevents them from outright attacking (a geas of sorts) unless its via self defense. Just like how CoD couldn't attack those with Allagan blood, so she lets others do it.