Impact to game from Proposed Crafting Changes (CRAFTER PROTEST)

This is not a theory thread, full of my speculating about what I think the changes will entail, blah, blah, blah...

Instead, this is to gauge the number of crafter that feel strongly about the situation, and to get a measure (that everyone can feel) about what the consquences might be.

Basically, are you a crafter that is discouraged enough by the proposed recipe changes, and what this might imply for the future of crafting, enough so that you would likely stop playing FFXIV if crafting is side-lined?

If your answer is yes, then simply stop offering any repairs, to any person. Yes, even those people in your linkshell (that you know and love). I would simply say that you are expressing your opinion in a non-violent way. There is no law that says you must repair people's gear. There is an NPC that can repair gear, and people can raise their craft and repair it themselves if they so desire.

Long live the crafters!

How about no?

We have enough of those threads. Cut it out already.

P.S.: I am sooo happy my LS has no such Drama-Queens as its members. Good luck isolating yourself.

I'm against these changes, but honestly I think you're going a bit too far with a boycott that only a small percentage of the people will do (even tho i think A LOT of ppl agree with you) and that won't lead you anywhere.

I think we just need to let SE know that we're strongly against this things and they might reconsider, after all the whole "redesign" stuff is because the players weren't satisfied with the product.

If the crafters are against it they need to say something, too many people avoid this forum because of negativity then get pissed when those complainers get their way.

It is like this in every update it seems, people get furious.... but no one says anything.

This is the current crafters faults more then anything... they are allowing themselves to be represented by people who hate crafting. So in the end, since most crafters do not post about how they want the current system... no one can be pissed when it gets taken away.

You know OP, you remind me of Leslie from Parks and Recreation... Creepy. On the note of crafting, I like the upcoming changes.

I am a crafter whos about to hit his 7th 50 craft

here are my thoughts on all this

1) leveling crafts is going to become ALOT worse without all the parts to use as grind synths....this can however be replaced by gear grinding depending on what recipes show up

2) HQ gear will STILL be a pain to make, the people trying to make hq gear just wont have to go through all the extra hoops(4-5 synths to get to the part they were trying to make for that peice) but they will still need to get alot of +3 mats made in order to pull it off(making +3 mats in themselves still isnt as easy as some people may think it is)

3) gear will become more readily available at LOWER RANKS. Since itl be easier to make alot of the gear, the lower rank gear will now be sold more often.

4) support/training is a letdown BUT i will hold my judgement on what this means for those 2 things til after i see where they go with it

Indeed. I'm against it, but instead of botcotting it i just already tossed them some feedback. I asked that, since both recipes will be there for a while, that this become permanent and the simple version only resulting in NQ or +1. This way, those willing to go for a +2/3 would need to use the full recipes.

What left me concerned is the drastic reduction of number of recipes and the impact removing parts it would cause to economy...because most of us grind in parts due cheap recipes and leave the finished items protected from overgrinding exactly due the amount of things needed to synth it...but when they remove the parts people will start grinding on finished items, causing the economy to end like FFXI one, where you would go 1~100 in a craft with rarely actually getting profit. IMO the current recipes protect the finished items from overflooding the market and having their prices crushed.

Wow! I didn't quite expect that torrent of hate. I thought I wrote my original post in a neutral and inoffensive manner.

I merely made the suggestion because, if, in the end, no one feels particularly strongly about it, then it won't matter. And that's what SE and the community need to know.

If, on the other hand, it does actually strike a deep chord with a significant enough number of crafters, then eventually those crafters would leave, ending us in the situation I suggested we temporarily test.

I suppose this makes me a Drama Queen! :D

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

So in the end, since most crafters do not post about how they want the current system... no one can be pissed when it gets taken away.

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This isn't necessarily true, you know. They can get pissed, and they can quit. Who knows how many? How would we find out?

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Originally Posted by Amineri

Wow! I didn't quite expect that torrent of hate. I thought I wrote my original post in a neutral and inoffensive manner.

I merely made the suggestion because, if, in the end, no one feels particularly strongly about it, then it won't matter. And that's what SE and the community need to know.

If, on the other hand, it does actually strike a deep chord with a significant enough number of crafters, then eventually those crafters would leave, ending us in the situation I suggested we temporarily test.

I suppose this makes me a Drama Queen! :D

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Well, until FFXIV's "V" fall the hatred will continue. Because unfortunately pople seems to have some hard time understanding this is not FFXI...so if the recipe changes go in FFXI direction then anyone against the change will be bashed.

I approve you post (so much one of the "like" are mine)...i just don't think messing with others ingame as protest is a nice thing. Here actually is the place for protests, not there! ^^

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Originally Posted by Amineri

This isn't necessarily true, you know. They can get pissed, and they can quit. Who knows how many? How would we find out?

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Surely by boycotting repairs!

Seriously, it's a game. Nobody is going to spend their time in game on some boycotting drama even if they are against the proposed changes - as some have already said before me.

How do we find out?

We count how many of our crafter buddies rage and stop logging in.

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If, on the other hand, it does actually strike a deep chord with a significant enough number of crafters, then eventually those crafters would leave, ending us in the situation I suggested we temporarily test.

I suppose this makes me a Drama Queen!

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What makes you a drama queen is your childish holla for a half-assed revolution that has nothing to do with the actual changes and is completely misdirected at innocents.

Thanks for the one ray of shining support! <3

I too didn't want this to take the form of "punishing other players to get our way". But maybe it just comes across that way.

In my mind, it was really just testing out the scenario "If this is bad enough that enough crafters quit, can you SEE the impact?" To that end, I didn't propose some form of REAL punishment, like not producing gear for sale. But, as you say, in all likelihood not enough people care at this point. Games tend to fall down in dribs and drabs, until one day you realize that you just can't take it anymore.

It isn't, or you would have left already (despite not even knowing how this plays out in the end).
You're just trying to abuse your power and take hostage some innocent bystanders to force a stop to a development you don't like.

Luckily, you neither have the power nor the support to succeed.
(Which doesn't make the attempt less despicable)

The changes are nowhere near a level of severity that would merit such a dramatic response. They are all sensible changes.

The important thing to realize is that they aren't the last of the changes the crafting system will face. The system as it is now is not okey - it is too cumbersome, tedious and the actual mini-game is boring rather than engaging.

People seem to be trapped in this delusion that making it take 5 steps to make something demands skill.
No.
It demands patience.

If the crafting system is to be more engaging and skillful, the mini-game needs to be changed. Removing parts is a step forward in streamlining the system and removing tedium. The removal of facilities and sub skill requirements alone sound bad - but good thing they clearly stated they have different plans for both of those.

Just like with the battle changes, the crafting system will take multiple steps to change for the better.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

I am a crafter whos about to hit his 7th 50 craft

here are my thoughts on all this

1) leveling crafts is going to become ALOT worse without all the parts to use as grind synths....this can however be replaced by gear grinding depending on what recipes show up

2) HQ gear will STILL be a pain to make, the people trying to make hq gear just wont have to go through all the extra hoops(4-5 synths to get to the part they were trying to make for that peice) but they will still need to get alot of +3 mats made in order to pull it off(making +3 mats in themselves still isnt as easy as some people may think it is)

3) gear will become more readily available at LOWER RANKS. Since itl be easier to make alot of the gear, the lower rank gear will now be sold more often.

4) support/training is a letdown BUT i will hold my judgement on what this means for those 2 things til after i see where they go with it

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Agreed.

1)ARM is going to much harder to level up now lol
2)I dont know about you, but I refuse to create HQ mats for other people, its terrible. I hate it.
4)This is the real make or break. I invested a lot of marks into training books. Those better still be worth something . . .

Even if some of the hardcore do quit over the changes, there will be others who start up crafting that previously couldn't be bothered because of the over intricate material requirements on many of the lower synth items. I honestly don't see most people caring one way or the other. FFXI had a far simpler system for crafting and it was pretty popular, and these changes aren't even lowering synthing to that level. People are going to keep doing it regardless, it's just likely the demographics of who is synthing that will change.

lol are little protests and lukewarm 1 person boycotts the hip thing to do right now? kids these days /shakes cane
its not even here yet, i swear no matter what they post some "special" people always start painting protest signs walking up and down their little streets.

*readies riot shield*

I really don't understand all this drama on recipe reduction. If exping is all what you care, maybe you're right. But since DoH should craft finished items and not only parts, what's the deal ?
Also, they are adjusting exping curve of DoH(90% means less exp cap), so maybe heavy grind would be meaningful.

ps: i don't hate crafting, and actually i'm exping one. But all this dispersive it's stupid. I'm a cooker. I'm supposed to make food. And what i'm using to exp ? SAND., because every recipe have a million mats. Do you explain me what i should do of SAND ?!

Same as another thread...

I am Greatly in favor of the changes. They can only benefit everyone.

I've yet to see an non-dramatic example of how it's not a good thing.

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and people can raise their craft and repair it themselves if they so desire.

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this is probably the most funny part, because, yes they will XD
so far those ppl that didn't mind crafting where those that were annoyed by the endless steps it takes to produce a level 10 piece of equipment, or to rank up.
with 1.19 more ppl will find intereset in crafting, so it's a good thing in the end that SE did change it, no?

it's not about that you like it because it feels real, and hard.
it's about that everyone can enjoy it equally, and i know for sure alot of people wouldn't touch a crafting class other then by using a bot =P

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If your answer is yes, then simply stop offering any repairs, to any person. Yes, even those people in your linkshell (that you know and love). I would simply say that you are expressing your opinion in a non-violent way. There is no law that says you must repair people's gear. There is an NPC that can repair gear, and people can raise their craft and repair it themselves if they so desire.

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Wow, someone takes this game way too seriously.

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Originally Posted by BloodLotus

Same as another thread...

I am Greatly in favor of the changes. They can only benefit everyone.

I've yet to see an non-dramatic example of how it's not a good thing.

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The only thing I'm worried about is that when they take out these intermediate parts, what will we grind on? Will they make it so the exp curve is easy enough to get to the top level without having to grind too much?

Most of the good/cheap grinding items were all intermediate stuff, esp. with armorcrafting and blacksmithing.

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Originally Posted by KalaKenshu

The only thing I'm worried about is that when they take out these intermediate parts, what will we grind on? Will they make it so the exp curve is easy enough to get to the top level without having to grind too much?

Most of the good/cheap grinding items were all intermediate stuff, esp. with armorcrafting and blacksmithing.

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your gonna have to grind on finished items is whats gonna happen
all those easy 1 item synths will be gone though which kinda sucks for people who wanna grind it cheaper like we used to

one of my few 50's is a Carpenter that I use to make Arrows with.

I for one embrace all of the listed changes.

I hope they atleast keep some materials to grind with. It's a grind already sometimes, and I doubt I will want to grind even more with my DoH

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

one of my few 50's is a Carpenter that I use to make Arrows with.

I for one embrace all of the listed changes.

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i predict arrow makers may not like the changes when...

it goes from

1 fletchling
1 arrow head
1 yarn
1 shaft
1 glue

to

1 yarn
1 glue
1 branch
1 feather
1 "whatever was the base material to make the head"

What are you people scared of? That more players will level crafts and prices will go down?

I'm a crafter, and I won't be protesting shit. I'll actually be crafting MORE, as it seems it won't be such a chore.

I have an armorer in the r30s and it's getting ridiculous trying to rank up. It's gotten to the point where I just start a synth, minimize XIV and spam A on my gamepad until I hear the item complete sound, press down, then spam A again... repeat process over and over and over.

What is fun and/or intelligent about that?

7 R50 crafts here and I gotta say I dont care either way. That is all.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

i predict arrow makers may not like the changes when...

it goes from

1 fletchling
1 arrow head
1 yarn
1 shaft
1 glue

to

1 yarn
1 glue
1 branch
1 feather
1 "whatever was the base material to make the head"

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That's actually not too bad since it means we don't have to worry about the arrowheads or fletchings. Nuggets are all over the place and feathers are farmable.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

The changes are nowhere near a level of severity that would merit such a dramatic response. They are all sensible changes.

The important thing to realize is that they aren't the last of the changes the crafting system will face. The system as it is now is not okey - it is too cumbersome, tedious and the actual mini-game is boring rather than engaging.

People seem to be trapped in this delusion that making it take 5 steps to make something demands skill.
No.
It demands patience.

If the crafting system is to be more engaging and skillful, the mini-game needs to be changed. Removing parts is a step forward in streamlining the system and removing tedium. The removal of facilities and sub skill requirements alone sound bad - but good thing they clearly stated they have different plans for both of those.

Just like with the battle changes, the crafting system will take multiple steps to change for the better.

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the main problems with the crafting changes arent really about difficulty, its about not serving any real purpose, and primarily the effect it will have on leveling crafting, and profiting from crafting. To level crafts you either spam materials and parts, or you make the parts you will need later, the truth is as lienn mentioned, people didnt craft finished goods for leveling sake, so the complexity of the recipes, was largely only for people who wanted the item to wear or to sell, this set an actual real value for the item not only on the level of the crafter, but the time to make it. It wasnt as effected by the fact people had to craft to level up.

Its basically the same as putting good items in monsters that are more difficult to fight, you generally want to make items that are supposed to have value, not drop from the monsters that everyone has to fight all day.

Taking out books is a big problem, because it was one of the few milestones, and strategy elements that a crafter might make, should i get tailoring or weaving? how am i planning to spend my time leveling? what will be my focus? these questions no longer need an answer.

As for taking out needing crafting support, this further de incentives working in the actual town where there are crafters, and thus decreases the identity of each city state. When the game started, you essentially could find crafters, in the crafting guilds, or by the repair npcs, If you needed something made, this is where you went. This is less the case without guild support, and in a system that doesnt have a very effective advertising or selling, being able to know where you could find crafters was probably a good thing not only for uniqueness of towns, but also for trading/buying/getting orders made.

My main problems with the changes, is they are changes, but they dont seem to consider the long term effects, and overall effect on the game. Making recipes simple is fine, but you should do so in a way that will make crafting better, and its effect on the gameworld better.

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Originally Posted by Quills

What are you people scared of? That more players will level crafts and prices will go down?

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exactly, which while it may be good for DoW and DoM on the face, is bad for crafters in general, and in the long term not good for DoW and DoM either, because crafters generally stop making things that arent profitable, and start price guaging even more on high end items.

It basically creates a system where low end items are cheap, but being cheap, other than a few cases, no one will ever make them because they arent profitable, and high end items cost an arm and a leg, because crafting requires a huge monetary investment to get to make the things of value. See ffxi.

NQ low/mid level rings made for lower than cost, and almost none made because it has very little value,
HQ capped rings costing more than the average player can earn in 2 weeks, because the crafter had to pay his way up to level cap.

It happens now, but these changes will only increase the drasticness of the price differences, unless it is not accompanied by some very major changes in other things.

While I'm unhappy at some of the changes, I don't think I can go this far.

But I will be happy to say "I told you so" to the pseudo-crafters that will start to QQ at how hard it is to rank crafts when these changes go into effect after they try to take up crafting again. You thought it was a grind before? You are in for a very unpleasant surprise...

could we please stop with all this crap? Really every update it is protest this and petition that, how about seeing what Yoshi has in store first, before freaking out.

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

could we please stop with all this crap? Really every update it is protest this and petition that, how about seeing what Yoshi has in store first, before freaking out.

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people always say this, and my response is always, because then it is essentially too late, and it is also a waste of resources. The wait and see idealogy is flawed. Why do you have to drive into a wall before you avoid it? While they may have plans and counterplans for eventualities, we should speak to what is presented now, because they:
A seldom have everything well thought out
B even when they do, can be pointed in the wrong direction

Look at the updates, there is a lot of effects that people saw coming miles and miles away, and yet people said wait and see. And now they say, oops, well we will try to change it or balance it, thats a waste of time that could have been avoided if they listen, analyze and think ahead of time.

If the process is going to be iteration heavy, thats fine, but there can still be somethings people saw coming, that can be avoided.