PLD Cooldown rotations for every fight in FCoB?

I am starting to progress through FCoB, 3rd phase in t12 and soon to be on T13 and I just wanted some quick advice about this due to the fact that you don't really have time to theory craft about this type of stuff in the middle of a learn party. So

T10: What does everyone use?
I tend to OT this fight, so I save Bloodbath til the add phase just because there is absolutely no point in using it when you're not taking damage, so I will usually pop a Foresight/conv/bloodbath for the adds and then I'll just swap between Rampart or Sentinal for every Critical Rip.

T11: For this I'm usually MTing and since there's no tank buster for me I generally just loosely rotate my cooldowns to ease the healers.

T12: I'm still learning this fight, so for now I've been taking the first bennu. What I'll do is Conv/foresight/bloodbath for the bennus (it will be up literally every time you tank a bennu) and then I'll drop a ramparte+awareness for every revelation.
tips for 13 would be great!

T10 convalescense is enough for the adds but yeah blood bath and foresight are fine too.

Rampart and bulwark for first rip. Sentinel for the rip during phase 2. Then in the last phase bulwark and ramp for first. HG for second.

T11 stay in sword oath and pop CDs leading up to head. For rampart you can use it right when the first missile lands. For sentinel use it after the missiles are done.

T12 any CD is fine for revelation so standard CD rotation is perfect. I just pop convalescense for the bennu.

You really can't rely on other tank's CD timings in FCoB because there are so many different styles of who tanks what (some do PLD MT, WAR OT, some do WAR starts the fight then PLD takes over after all his CDs are up, some do PLD MT in Sword Oath ... etc) and more importantly, your group's DPS timing will determine how many tank killer attacks will come out and you'll want to adjust accordingly. This applies to every turn.

The best advice I can give is to get a feel for how many mechanics will come out for your group's DPS, go into ACT, and get a time frame of the Critical Rips/Second Heads/Revelations and work with your group to get a rotation going including Viruses and what your WAR will take.

T13 depends on the group.

My group WAR takes first flatten then I tank the rest.

2nd - sent
3rd - conva and bulwark right after the single breath then rampart before flatten.
4th - HG

Pain - awareness
Storm - bulwark ramp first, sent if you get a second DS

Ahk
1st - ramp, convalescense
2nd - WAR HGs, provoke during the 3rd breath
3rd - ramp, convalescense
4th - HG
5th - ramp, sent, convalescense

Phase1
1 Flatten : HG
2 Flatten: Setting
3 Flatten: (Really? My dds are Bad and they should feel Bad) Foreight ( only because our dmg is so high that we only get 2 flattern. If we get 3th flattern it will only be the First attack Part from flattern Which is physixal)

Phase2
1 flatten : RampArt
2 flatten: forseight + conva(because flatten is physical the First Part and then only one flame breath)
3 flatten: Rampart

Phase3.
1 Death sentence : Rampart
After death sentence Use bollwork to help your healer
2 death sentence: forseight

Phase 4
1 ark mor: sentinel + conva
2 ark mor: warrior holmgang
3 ark mor:Rampart conva
4 ark mor: HG
5 ark mor: Everything left.

I mean sentinel After HG first flatten

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Originally Posted by Rayearth

I mean sentinel After HG first flatten

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Is sentinel up again for ahk 5?

Ahk 5 is the only dangerous one so I save sent for it.

Yes. Will be ready

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Originally Posted by Rayearth

Yes. Will be ready

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Cool so if a group is skipping the second DS the PLD should sword oath the first ahk with sent and rampart up. WAR can prob drop defiance as well.

You people are insane. Taking akh morns out of def/shield oath? Why in the holy fuck do you want to put so much pressure on your healers?

Phase1
1 Flatten : Ramp/Conv
2 Flatten: Hallowed (switch into sword oath until 2nd breath unless you have covered this 1st earth shaker, then stay until 2nd earth shaker goes out)
3 Flatten: N/A

Phase2
1 flatten : Take first flare breath, switch into sword oath until megaflare and have sent and conv up
2 flatten: Ramp/Bulwark
3 flatten: N/A

Phase3.
Add: Pain - foresight, Sin - conv, aware, bul and cover warrior (sometimes not all 3 are up when I run but any 2 of those are more than enough).

1st Death sentence : Rampart
2nd death sentence: Sent

Phase 4
1 ark mor: Ramp/Conv
2 ark mor: warrior holmgang > cover
3 ark mor: Ramp/Conv
4 ark mor: Hallowed
5 ark mor: Everything else.

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Originally Posted by Wizhard

You people are insane. Taking akh morns out of def/shield oath? Why in the holy fuck do you want to put so much pressure on your healers?

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Sent is more reduction then shield oath. So it's less curing for the mages and more dps for the raid.

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Originally Posted by Wizhard

You people are insane. Taking akh morns out of def/shield oath? Why in the holy fuck do you want to put so much pressure on your healers?

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Because Akh is actually really easy to heal, especially the first one. Only one that is dangerous is 5, and maybe 2 if your PLD doesn't take back from Holmgang very promptly.

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My T13 rotation:

P1
Flat1: Warrior opens and takes this with all cooldowns available
Flat2: Foresight at Megaflare cast, Rampart at Megaflare circles exploding
Flat3: Usually skip (if we get it, Sent)

P2
Flat4: Ramp (if not up, Sent)
Flat5: Sent (if not up, HG)
Flat6: Ramp+Sent if needed

*The reason HG is done late is so we don't have to wait as long on early-learning wipes for it to be up again, since until we could skip Flat3 it was part of the "normal" rotation. Also using it early for the sake of using it early defeats its point of bridging gaps between your other major cooldowns Ramp and Sent.

P3
Pain: Foresight
DS1: Ramp
DS2: Sent

P4
Akh1: Ramp / Inner Beast + Vengeance
Akh2: afk / Holmgang (queue up Fast, voke>Savage as soon as you see the first small Akh's explosion [BIG > small > small])
Akh3: Ramp at Gigaflare / Inner Beast + whatever
Akh4: Hallowed / afk
Akh5: Ramp+Sent / everything + Holmgang after first couple hits

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

Sent is more reduction then shield oath. So it's less curing for the mages and more dps for the raid.

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Amazingly sent+shield oath is even more reduction.

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

Because Akh is actually really easy to heal, especially the first one. Only one that is dangerous is 5, and maybe 2 if your PLD doesn't take back from Holmgang very promptly.

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Yes, thank you, i have killed t13 7 times now, i know how it goes. The question is why do you want to make healing harder.

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Originally Posted by Wizhard

Amazingly sent+shield oath is even more reduction.

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Yeah, but why in the world would you want to sent+shield oath when 40% reduction is all you need? That's a lot of extra dps you can squeeze out from stance dancing, and you'd still be mitigating an additional 20% over shield oath anyway.

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Originally Posted by Kyt

Yeah, but why in the world would you want to sent+shield oath when 40% reduction is all you need? That's a lot of extra dps you can squeeze out from stance dancing, and you'd still be mitigating an additional 20% over shield oath anyway.

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Having that sentinel is possible with skipping the second death sentence which implies you dont need that extra dps in the first place.

When shield and sword oath is no longer on gc... I will start to think about switching it every 10 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Rayearth

When shield and sword oath is no longer on gc... I will start to think about switching it every 10 seconds.

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This is my feeling in general as well.

Has anyone done the math that shows how long a PLD should aim to stay in Sword Oath in order to see a DPS increase assuming that they are MT and will switch back to Shield Oath? Basically, how long should one stay in Sword Oath in order to surpass the DPS loss of two GCDs? If I had to guess, I'd say it would be around 25-30 seconds, so maybe it's not appropriate to switch during Akh Morn, but I don't have any numbers to back that up.

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Originally Posted by Wizhard

Having that sentinel is possible with skipping the second death sentence which implies you dont need that extra dps in the first place.

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Until savage comes out there isn't much else to do but min/max DPS. Raiding is 60-90 min a week.

The nice first ahk comes right after Teraflare so you wont miss a GCD stance dancing. If you use sentinel for the first ahk and stay in sword oath you won't have to change back to shield oath until the twister is about to go off during mega flare.

The goal would be to skip the 5th ahk making the entire fight easier and faster.

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

Until savage comes out there isn't much else to do but min/max DPS. Raiding is 60-90 min a week.

The nice first ahk comes right after Teraflare so you wont miss a GCD stance dancing. If you use sentinel for the first ahk and stay in sword oath you won't have to change back to shield oath until the twister is about to go off during mega flare.

The goal would be to skip the 5th ahk making the entire fight easier and faster.

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Technically there is an auto-attack before first akh morn. Im not saying its exactly bad, im saying why would you not want to make it even more easier for the healers. That stance-dance dps is negligible compared to, say, just wearing ruby accessories. And as ive said if you skip second DS you are probably skipping 5th akh morn as well so its unnecessary.

We skip 2nd DS around half the time but have never skipped the 5 ahk. Anyways no t13 healer has an issue with the first ahk.

I'm sure lucerZia will release a speed kill when the PLD is perma sword oath lol.

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

We skip 2nd DS around half the time but have never skipped the 5 ahk. Anyways no t13 healer has an issue with the first ahk.

I'm sure lucerZia will release a speed kill when the PLD is perma sword oath lol.

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Past 3 kills for us, we've skipped 5th Ahk Morn entirely and I'm in Shield Oath most of the fight. I'm not sure the argument either way of which is better overall DPS - Warrior OT pushing very hard and riding threat line with MT in Shield Oath or MT in Sword Oath and balancing that off with the Warrior not using Butcher's Block combo as much.

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Originally Posted by Asherek

Past 3 kills for us, we've skipped 5th Ahk Morn entirely and I'm in Shield Oath most of the fight. I'm not sure the argument either way of which is better overall DPS - Warrior OT pushing very hard and riding threat line with MT in Shield Oath or MT in Sword Oath and balancing that off with the Warrior not using Butcher's Block combo as much.

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Sword oath would win that by a large margin. But until the 2nd ahk I have a huge hate lead on PLD because of phase 2.

After the WAR vokes for ahk 2 I could see that being a problem.

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

Sword oath would win that by a large margin. But until the 2nd ahk I have a huge hate lead on PLD because of phase 2.

After the WAR vokes for ahk 2 I could see that being a problem.

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Typed my original response on my phone so I didn't elaborate, but that was what I was driving towards mostly. Once the voke happens (if the Warrior is taking 2nd Ahk Morn), if they're pushing their DPS to their limit, it's fairly difficult, if not downright impossible to keep threat off them with Sword Oath only if they know what they're doing.

That also being said, I'm interested to know if you have any backing numbers/parses/examples for your first statement.

We killed Baha twice now, never felt the need to use SO since our DPS is already way past what we need with MNK, BRD and 2xBLM, our SMN got fed up with his class and switched to BLM. My current rotation is as follows:
P1: Rampart > Sentinel > Rampart (sometimes we get to skip last Flatten)
P2: Bulwark+Convalescence (if we didn't skip flatten) > Rampart > Sentinel
P3: Rampart for first Blood, Bulwark or Foresight while tanking the second
P4: Classic Akh Morn rotation (ramp+conv>cover>ramp+conv>hg>ramp+sent)
Never used Hallowed on pull so we could do more consecutive attempts while progressing. I'm also using Stoneskin before every Breath (unless i've to move) to keep up TP.

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Originally Posted by Asherek

That also being said, I'm interested to know if you have any backing numbers/parses/examples for your first statement.

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WAR gains 20 potency doing BB combo over SE combo. (Technically even less since they have to SE once every 3 combos)

PLD gains 50 potency per AA, plus they lose the 20% damage reduction on all attacks.

PLD in sword oath is a massive raid DPS increase especially while WAR is tanking during unchained or the WAR has defiance off.

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Originally Posted by Asherek

Typed my original response on my phone so I didn't elaborate, but that was what I was driving towards mostly. Once the voke happens (if the Warrior is taking 2nd Ahk Morn), if they're pushing their DPS to their limit, it's fairly difficult, if not downright impossible to keep threat off them with Sword Oath only if they know what they're doing.

That also being said, I'm interested to know if you have any backing numbers/parses/examples for your first statement.

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From my testing, SP > SE is on average only 10 or so DPS less than SE > BB (depending on crits of course but somewhere in that vicinity) on an OT WAR. Very minor, and after seeing the tests I rarely use SE > BB even in outdated content. Generally I only neglect SP if I know the healers are just healing and being lazy, or if I know Eos/Selene will keep up the heals and not reduce healer DPS even without Storm's Path.

Shield Oath PLD does between 100 to 150 less than Sword Oath PLD. The difference is ridiculous, to the point where if you can get Sword Oath up safely as main tank for at least two rotations, you should probably do it. It's why all of the speediest runs of T10-T12 right now use PLD MT in Sword Oath and WAR OT.