Adding skillchains in game...

I was trying hard to think of ways to make people WANT to pay tanks and healers, since there is a great imbalance between tanks/healers and DPS.

Some players don't want to tank and heal because it has too deep responsabilities. A lot don'T like the pressure from tanks and healers. I didn'T find a solution yet, for these people.

BUT, some players don't want to play tanka nd healers because it is BORING... and for these people, i have a little solution. Bring back skillchains from FF11... but ONLY for tanks and healers. Tank vs tank = DEF buff... healers vs healers = increasing the MND on healers and healer + tank = haste buff.

BUT it has it's flaws... one of them being adding these skillchains will scare even more people.. those who don't want the responsabilities...

Question is, will it scare more then will get more people interested ?

Being a Healer I would say.. no thank you. WHM is already pretty frustrating at times during SRs in dungeons. I don't need another mechanic to deal with...

Wait, who out there is saying that it's boring? I have both at 50 and I wouldn't call them boring, at least no more so than playing a DPS.

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Originally Posted by ZaaZaa

BUT, some players don't want to play tanka nd healers because it is BORING...

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Those people have not played either role for long enough then. Tanking is the single most active job in this game, for all I seen so far. The tank is basically orchestrating the entire battle ground, moving foes, all while constantly monitoring the battle ground for any ads (unless they have memorized the map so well that they know where and if there are adds)

Healer is the second hardest job in a party, and in some scenarios it can jump to be harder than tanking.

Anyone that is avoiding the job because "it is boring" really should give the roles a chance (but they will very likely grow extremely frustrated very very fast.)

Skillchains on a fast pase game wont work.

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

Being a Healer I would say.. no thank you. WHM is already pretty frustrating at times during SRs in dungeons. I don't need another mechanic to deal with...

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My mains are equally tank and healer. I still find them boring at times. Using skillchains would make me enjoy these classes even more.

It could be a skillchain we could do once and would last 2 minutes. I mean, even in a hardcore moment, the one opening the skillchain could wait a bit longuer on a more appropriate time. Now, SE could give a few sec, 5-7 sec, for the other healer to close the skillchain.

Also, these skills could be instant and could be done while running (like swifcast). If you played FF11 from 2002-2005, you know very well doing skillchains are super fun and rewarding. The skillchains in FF11 died because too many bad players whined about them and SE made some changes.

But trust me, nothing was feeling better then a successful skillchain + magic burst.

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Originally Posted by Ogulbuk

Tanking is the single most active job in this game, for all I seen so far.

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As someone who's playing all roles in EX Primals and second coil, no. God no. Half the content in the game as a tank I get to ignore 80% of the fight and just stand there and do the same stuff I do for every other fight. (and that's with it being second coil/ex primals having things to actually do as a tank). And you might say "yeah DPS do that too" but DPS done well actually have complicated rotations to maintain and a lot to focus on when trying to optimize damage; plus are the ones that take care of the majority of mechanics.

That said, skillchains were not terribly interesting. The only reason they ever were in XI was because XI was so incredibly slow paced and braindead they were one of the only things that involved any level of coordination or reaction at all. I'd personally rather the introduction of more skills like Cover or Goad which allow more interactions with other players than arbitrary combo checks slapped down every x seconds.

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Originally Posted by ZaaZaa

If you played FF11 from 2002-2005, you know very well doing skillchains are super fun and rewarding. The skillchains in FF11 died because too many bad players whined about them and SE made some changes.

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Never got to see those changes, but they were the subject of loads of arguments. Some party member missed their window, or went in too soon, and the ongoing argument could potentially end in a party disband. The biggest thing, though, is that in that game you would always auto-attack and rarely rely on additional actions. Here, auto attack is the exception and you mostly rely on actions that form your own personal skill chain.

Also, a 2 man "skill chain" between the healer and the tank alone would be an incredibly boring thing.

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Originally Posted by Ogulbuk

Anyone that is avoiding the job because "it is boring" really should give the roles a chance (but they will very likely grow extremely frustrated very very fast.)

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I got all roles leveled, nothing special, and i have played since NA release. Now, what i am saying is that my favorite jobs, ironically, are tanks and healers.

ALL jobs get boring after some time, and that means it would be even more enjoyable to play a class that would use skillchains. Especially for the FF11 oldschool nostalgics.

I played FF11 from 2002 to 2005 and i left because skillchains was not a thing anymore. WoW stole too many players and SE had to dumb the game down to keep people playing. IT was not even hard, just too many lazy players didn'T want to bother communicate, read the party chat... Too many players like to do their own thing... But skillchains are awesome to boost the PVE experience.

No skillchains died when ToAU came out and the other half of their damage, Magic Bursts, became useless were 99% of people wanted to level. So says the still bitter FFXI Black Mage.

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Originally Posted by Gorvi

No skillchains died when ToAU came out and the other half of their damage, Magic Bursts, became useless were 99% of people wanted to level. So says the still bitter FFXI Black Mage.

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Well, i give it to you since i forgot.. was long time ago. What i do remember tough, was that i loved doing skillchains and magic burst. It was awesome for PVE.

Did you enjoy the skillchains in FF11 ? I still remember the light skillchains i was doing on my thief... Was so fun. Or even tanking with my ninja doing them small magic bursts, but still, was super fun !

How do you find healing boring?

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Originally Posted by ZaaZaa

Well, i give it to you since i forgot.. was long time ago. What i do remember tough, was that i loved doing skillchains and magic burst. It was awesome for PVE.

Did you enjoy the skillchains in FF11 ? I still remember the light skillchains i was doing on my thief... Was so fun. Or even tanking with my ninja doing them small magic bursts, but still, was super fun !

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Oh, I loved it, and have thought it would be nice to see in XIV, but the game just wasn't built for it. DPS classes are too bound to their rotations and for healers/tanks it would really just be trying to shoehorn it in where it doesn't really fit.

Maybe when specific debuffs are combined on a mob we could see certain special effects, that would be nice.

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

How do you find healing boring?

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Watching a list of 8 players 90% of the battle and 10% on a focus target bar get boring, trust me. So when i heal too much, i get bored and that is when i use my tank... Wich is a radical change.. fighting the mobs closely and dodging... totally the opposite of healing. I don't even have good DPS jobs... i pretty much mostly tank and heal.

heres my idea, and it is just a concept and needs lots of work as to not be OP but the basic is this, Limit breaks go back to what they always been in other FF games... each character has their own bar. There is still LB1/2/3 and you can keep most of them the same. Since a lot of people complain that skillchains and magic burst would be to much on top of everything else we do i figured that if you used limit breaks for skillchains then they would be so few and far between that it wouldn't be to much to manage.

The skillchain part is pretty obvious at this point, job 1 LB, job 2 LB => (skillchain) you can also add the magic bursting at the end for tons of fun! The different combinations (i.e. LB's with different jobs) will create the different effects that could be further exploited from the magic bursting mages. I main PLD and it really is depressing how i never get to LB, and when i finally do it is completely useless and the same goes for healers, if your healers are using LB3 it will probably be a wipe anyways although i have seen some epic fights come back with a heal LB3 so its not completely useless but 50% dmg reduction for 12 seconds? THATS the tank LB3? lol, just lol.

and i just realized that if SE went this way they could add this same kinda dynamic to a future Samurai Class that would mimic FFXI's sam where they built TP (LB for ffxiv) faster and could do self-skillchains which was fun as hell!!

LBs really could use some work, and I think you've got the beginnings of a really good idea, Pterois. They'd have to be heavily nerfed for DPS classes, and some strategies that involve mage LBs would either require multiple mages or be scrapped entirely.

Still, I think it could be the start of something that would have potential, and as a WHM main I know I'd love to be able to use an LB every once in a while. Let me throw out a Stoneskin that's the equivalent of 100% of someone's total HP, something like that.

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Originally Posted by Gorvi

snip.

Still, I think it could be the start of something that would have potential, and as a WHM main I know I'd love to be able to use an LB every once in a while. Let me throw out a Stoneskin that's the equivalent of 100% of someone's total HP, something like that.

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PLD LB + WHM LB = Mighty Guard

there are so many possibilities it is ridiculous, so many famous spells/skills from previous FF's and tons of combos that could even be incorporated into raids in order to win. It's a whole new dynamic that would redefine this mediocre combat.

I agree about the lb chains this could have some awesome potential!

Healers aren't boring if you're playing them to their limits. Especially in FCOB.

Tanks and healers aren't boring. People just don't want the responsibilities that come with the classes.
Take dps away and it just takes longer (albeit a lot longer) to kill the mobs.
Take tank away and mobs chew through you. Dead
Take healer away and mobs use tank as appetizer through tank then chew through you. Dead.

This is regular grouping by the way not primals and coil where dps checks come in.

Even so though, you can slack off more and someone else usually picks up the slack (FFCOB not included).

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Originally Posted by Ogulbuk

Tanking is the single most active job in this game

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Are you ... actually serious..?

I dont really know how you would define active but, moving a monster for 4 feet and aggro swap isnt really active, this game mostly has dull tank mechanics in boss fights, which is pretty much the reason people dont like tanking, especially paladins are the worst, because beside this dull mechanics, they mostly need to press 1-2-3, thanks to their super alternate rotation possibilities.

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Originally Posted by Pterois

PLD LB + WHM LB = Mighty Guard

there are so many possibilities it is ridiculous, so many famous spells/skills from previous FF's and tons of combos that could even be incorporated into raids in order to win. It's a whole new dynamic that would redefine this mediocre combat.

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That's what i would love. Instead of trying to make harder battles or events, SE should complexify the way players must fight in order to win. Incorporating skillchains could allow such things. One specific skillchain on a specefic key-moment of the fight to destroy the boss buff, or to delete the debuff on the tanks, idk... as you said, possibilities are almost infinite !

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Originally Posted by ZaaZaa

BUT, some players don't want to play tanka nd healers because it is BORING...

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I actually have an opposite view, I think DPS is boring.

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Originally Posted by Cutie_McSnuggles

I actually have an opposite view, I think DPS is boring.

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As i replied to someone else, i actually should of said "all jobs get boring after some time. Let's add a fun bonus to healers and tanks, so more people want to play them"...

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Originally Posted by Charisma

Are you ... actually serious..?

I dont really know how you would define active but, moving a monster for 4 feet and aggro swap isnt really active, this game mostly has dull tank mechanics in boss fights, which is pretty much the reason people dont like tanking, especially paladins are the worst, because beside this dull mechanics, they mostly need to press 1-2-3, thanks to their super alternate rotation possibilities.

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Sorry but, you are wrong about this one. Most people don't take on tanking solely because of the spotlight. You are the cornerstone of the party, and if you don't do it correctly, you have everyone yelling at you. Your general person just doesn't want the responsibility of dealing with random idiots yelling at them for making mistakes.

It is definitely not dull playing a tank, or a healer for that matter. That status is reserved for DPS.

I miss skillchains. I like the LB idea. But I have played all jobs because everyone gets boring from time to time.