BLM: Should I change my rotation?

So normally I do a single target rotation like this:

Thunder III ---> Fire III ---> 4x Fire ---> Flare ---> Transpose ---> Blizzard III ---> and redo.

I notice with my other rotation I skip doing Thunder III to have MP for a extra Fire like this:

Fire III ---> 5x Fire ---> Flare ---> Transpose ---> Blizzard III ---> and redo.

So a total of 1k damage more and 40% for a free Fire III pr time I do the 5 Fire.

I know Thunder III is doing 100 damage pr 3 sec but that would be a total of 30 sec for 1k damage vs a 5th Fire and Thunder III also got a small chance for 5% next one will do extra damage over time but that is 5% so it is rare vs a Fire doing 1k damage + 40% next Fire III is free.

I wonder if people still do rotation with Thunder II or III? because the way I see it you will do better with 5 Fire vs a single Thunder II-III.

What do you guys think?

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Originally Posted by Ruddi

OP Snip

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It depends, as an opening rotation, you can start with Thunder 1, and use that as you need to reapply it, the biggest advantage to Thunder is the Thundercloud proc, which on a Thunder 3, for myself does 1700 Damage on a Crit hit, on top of doing the normal 3 second tics, so it adds up to a lot of damage. if you dont get another thundercloud proc, you can just cast a thunder 1, which is minimal MP and Time spent casting and you can get back into your DPS rotation.

I personally like this thought process because I don't main my BLM in high end raiding like FcOB, So people doing that may have something else to say about it.

Hope this Helps ^^ And I'm prepared for being possibly Flamed by all the 1337 BRM's. :D Have a good one!

Thunder III (hit just after the tank Hits boss) <Raging Strikes>, Fire III, Fire x4, <Swiftcast>, Flare, <Convert>, fire, blizzard III (for an opener) Thunder I (Blizzard I/Scathe if MP tick comes late), FireIII, Fire x5, Blizzard III repeat. Also depends on your piety also. I run with around 242 piety without sch buffs

If thunder procs happen do it after the next fire spell. Firestarter procs come before Thunder procs (use Thunder III for all procs) on the last fire before transition to umbral ice III you get a firestarter hold onto it till after thunder, transpose and use firestarter. Or you can fire weave with OGC on last fire.

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Originally Posted by Ruddi

What do you guys think?

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Your rotation is really bad to be honest, would be well worth your reading through some of the big threads in this section about BLM rotations.

There are a few variations and people disagree about what's the "best" rotation, but most of them will be better than what your currently doing.

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Originally Posted by scarebearz

Your rotation is really bad to be honest, would be well worth your reading through some of the big threads in this section about BLM rotations.

There are a few variations and people disagree about what's the "best" rotation, but most of them will be better than what your currently doing.

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I like how you challenge me, to be the BEST BLM at all is not easy but I try my best to optimize how I play.

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Originally Posted by Ruddi

I like how you challenge me, to be the BEST BLM at all is not easy but I try my best to optimize how I play.

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Basically a 5 Fire rotation is good, but you still want to be using thunder, those thunderclud procs are very useful.

Transpose is a very useful skill, but I'd advise against using it so frequently for simgle target rotation, due to the downtime of MP ticks and the extra time it takes getting back into Astral Fire III.

There are dozens of situational things (e.g. weaving thunder procs) that are useful to do to maximise your damage, but those you'll pick up after getting the basic rotation sorted.

As I said there are a few slight variations on what the "best basic rotation" is and whatever I reccomend, I'm sure someone would disagree xD So you'll have to try them and see what works best for you.

I mostly use thunder I as part of my rotation, due to my characters race I'd need 1 extra MP to use Thunder II and be able to still cast my 5 Fire I's.

Thunder 2 (time on tank pull)

Opening rotation: Fire 3 > Raging Strikes > Fire 1 (4-5) > Swiftcast > Flare > Convert > Fire 1 > Blizzard 3 > Thunder 1 > Blizzard 1 (if MP Tick RNG isn't kind)
Normal rotation: Fire 3 > Fire 1 (4-5) > Blizzard 3 > Thunder 1 (blizzard 1 if required) and repeat.

I wouldn't spam Flare like that for single targets at all.

without swiftcast flare on single target never seems worth it to me

I usually go t2, f3, f1x5, swift flare, convert, f1, b3. then repeat minus flare.

or on boss as tank is running in, qs, rs, swift t3, f3, f1x5, convert, f1, b3, t2 repeat from f3.

of course weaving in all procs as possible.

it may not be ideal but in all dungeons things tend to die quickly anyways.

truth be told I barely single target except bosses cus why would I when there a whole bunch of things that need killing.

At least explain to the OP why his rotation isn't good >_>

So yeah, why isn't your single target rotation is sub-optimal? Let's sum up the potencies against time spend. Your rotation is:

Thunder III ---> Fire III (in Umbral Ice III) ---> 4x Fire (in Astral Fire III) ---> Flare ---> Transpose ---> Blizzard III ---> and redo.
60+280 ---> 160 ---> 297 x4 ---> 455 ---> ??? ---> 160 ---> repeat
3,50s ---> 1,75s ---> 2,50s x4 ---> 4,00s ---> ??? ---> 3,50s ---> repeat
Total potency: 2303
Total time: 22,75s
Potency/second: 101,23
Transpose and manaticks not taken in consideration here. It's a variable that's not constant.

A 5-fire rotation as mentioned by other posts would be something like this:

Thunder ---> Blizzard ---> Fire III (in Umbral ice III) ---> Fire x5 (in astral fire III) ---> Blizzard III (in astral fire III) ---> repeat
30+210 ---> 170 ---> 160 ---> 297 x5 ---> 160
2,50s ---> 2,50s ---> 1,75s ---> 2,50s x5 ---> 1,75s
Total potency: 2215
Total time: 21s
Potency/second: 105,48

I'm not 100% sure what the exact numbers are on AF and UI damage effects, but if I remember correctly, it's 33% damage loss on fire spells in Umbral Ice III or vica versa and 75% damage increase on fire spells in astral fire III. Correct or not, let's use these numbers for now.

So based on hard, raw numbers (unaffected by anything but umbral ice/astral fire), the 5x fire rotation is better by 3,25 potency/second or 195 potency/minute. But there are a lot of factors involved.

First of all: The 5x fire rotation you're pretty much casting without any breaks. By using flare->transpose, like in your rotation, you're either lucky enough to get a mana tick instantly or be unlucky and just miss it. So you'll be spending time idling after transpose somewhere between 0,01s and 2,99s. Let's just say it's 1,50s time spend waiting on average. Meaning your rotation is stalled by an additional 1,50s on average. This would reduce the potency/second of your rotation from 101,23 to 94,97. The difference is suddenly really apparent!
Secondly: Firestarter proc. Obviously, the more fires you cast with each rotation, the more frequent you get to use Fire III with a firestarter proc. The 5x fire rotation casts 1 fire more with each rotation and less time spend too. On average this would mean you'd get more firestarter procs to use than the rotation you use and thus more damage.
Thirdly: There is always some firestarter procs waste here and there. Here is where it really hurts with only 4x fires in a single rotation: The first firestarter proc you get to use is not till after the second fire you cast and because of flare, you can't conserve one to get back into astral fire as quickly. What are you talking about?, answer is simple: Enter Umbral Ice III, transpose to Astral Fire I and use the firestarter proc then. This practically doubles the damage you'll do compared to casting Fire III in Umbral Ice III.

There is a lot, and I mean a serious bloody lot, of RNG involved for Black Mage. I hope the explanation above helps you understand the issues with the rotation you are using and the advantages of the 5x fire rotation in comparison.

Keep in mind: Numbers above are for representation only. Spell speed, mana ticks, procs, movement and a ton more, are not factored in.

To be honest, and I'm using single target boss fights for an example, I've never had a problem with swiftcast Thunder III, Fire III, Raging Strikes, Fire I x5, Blizzard III, Thunder I/II (depending on MP) rinse and repeat. Thunder stays up so Thunder proc always has a chance of coming along and with Fire I x5 there is a higher chance of getting the Firestarter proc. Granted, I know people like to weave Flare into a single target rotation, and of course it does do quite the amount of damage but depending on a the tic when you Tranpose you lose time. Then you are also using more time to cast another Blizzard I or III or whatever the preference is. OR using a Convert which, in many boss battles these days, could be saved for a small adds phase.

Not saying that's wrong, but in my experience I feel like I deal damage a lot more quickly when I don't weave Flares.

/shrug

Quote: Lyrica Ashtine

Wow that is very nice info I tryed out the rotation and it worked like a charm!

Thanks allot it made my day!