can i be banned for

using macros on my razer deathadder?

Its sketchy to say the least but as long as its not an automated process (like starting a macro, walking away from your computer for 6 hours and coming back later to turn it off), it's usually alright. Chances are if you think it's bannable, steer away from it

There is no way they can know.

In my book it is no better than botting and you should feel cheep using that... but like Vispor said, there is no way they can know.

The most they can technically do is try talking to you, and if you don't respond... then well...

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Originally Posted by JayvirDeforte

The most they can technically do is try talking to you, and if you don't respond... then well...

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No, the most they can technically do is cancel your account. If they decide it is botting. Which they can do, at their discretion. Terms of service say that any and all third party programs are not allowed, and they reserve the right to pretty much do whatever they want to your account because they own it, not you. That said, as far as I know, no one has ever been banned from using the macro features of keyboards like the G series, or the razor mice, but if they decide it is against the terms of service then you're SOL. Will they? Realistically probably not. Will they even know? There are in fact ways to to program the game to watch for that sort of thing. Is it worth their time and effort? Probably not. Guess the real question is, do you want to risk it?

Windows is a 3rd party program! We all gonna get banned D:
Btw a keyboard, mouse, etc. macro software doesn't directly interact with the game. It's working in the drivers and as such can not be considered a cheating program. They can only kick you out if you manipulate the game data (by reading or writing it's memory space or files). But this depends on the regional laws I guess.

Regardless of whether or not it "interacts with the game directly" it -can- still be considered botting; that is, you are automating a function using external software that is not inherently built into the game. If they wanted to be sticks in the mud, they could. But then, they also say dat mining is a no-no, but they link to ZAM's item database now. While I imagine they intend to give the info to Zam at this point to keep it up to date, I suppose you could infer that in some cases "violations" are okay. Case in point, I don't expect they will ever ban anyone for using macro features of a mouse or keyboard unless they are grossly and obviously abused. Even so, they -can- if they want.

If a bot doesn't interact with the game directly it's not a bot. Stuff like macros is a convenience and not an advantage.

You can try and call it whatever you want. If you you are automating anything using outside software, it is botting. That's kinda the definition of botting, isn't it? If you input a key-press to the game using third party software - regardless of its origin - you are interacting with the game. Just because it is not done with injection and hooking doesn't mean it isn't happening.

While I personally agree that using features that most keyboards / mice have should be fine, my point is that SE might not. And yes, it is an advantage. I believe it is NOT an unfair one in most cases, but it can be unfair. The simplest example I can make is this...

Fair: A macro that lets me press a single button to bring up my crafting window and auto-select the ingredients for whatever my current grind item is.

Unfair: doing it in an endless loop so that I don't have to do anything other than sit there in case a GM /t me and I need to answer.

The former SE probably doesn't care about, even though technically it is botting because it is an automation of game play that does not exist within the game. The latter, SE probably DOES care about, as that is the shit that breaks the game.

You're probably missunderstanding the meaning of macro and bot. A macro is just a linear input queue that is triggered when the player presses a key. A bot is a script that works without the players interaction and usually fetches pixels from the game to know what action to do next(yes one pixel is enough for most purposes).
And sure SE can just ban you if they think you bot. But they can get intro trouble if you sue them after getting banned just 'cause they "think" you botted. I think a GM already mentioned it. It's better not to ban a few botters than banning them and accidently banning someone who didn't bot.

I know the difference between a macro and a bot. I guess what I am trying to illustrate is that some of the beefier keyboards and mice designed for advanced / hardcore gaming blur that line. There is a LOT that you can do with "just" a macro using the drivers / included software that comes with the hardware, and more and more you are able to DO more and more.

I think that one of the things to consider is that SE has a macro system in place, albeit limited. But if you exceed the limitations of that system, aren't you breaking into the botting realm? I mean, the fact remains that you are using software that was not produced by SE that inputs information into the game in a way that SE did not intend. You make a complex enough macro and I have to wonder how does it differ from a script at all?

Also, they can't get into trouble if you try to sue them. Dispute resolution is outlined in the terms of service, and by using their services you agree to their means of dispute resolution. Honestly, if any lawyer says that they will sue SE for you if you pay them can probably be sued for taking a case on bad faith XD

Anyhow, I do agree with you that macroing isn't botting, and that they are two different things. But I still think that there is -potential- for advanced macroing to be botting as well. :)

1st Macro's and bots are different, but confusing them is easy.
And macros them self can go from something simple like press and hold Ctrl till i pess X key again to almost bot level where they are virtually mini scripts.

They can probably look at the input, type of activity and if it seems to loop.
So i would just consider the size of the macro, it's use and the number of commands it sends to the pc.
I cant Imagen them banning people for just using a few simple macros. (I could be wrong obviously). But if you use it to automate crafting, (even just a l1.Enter, l2.Wait 10, l3.Enter style thing) You would deserve to be banned imo, but knowing people are getting away with that atm anyay is annoying.

Then again you look at windower, that in theory is a banable offence.
But the amount of people using it is huge probably, I will be giving my old pc to my fokes soon.
So i'll have to chose to use it to have a 2nd instance of the game running on my pc or lose an account. An again the evga fps monitor places hooks in the game to monitor FPS, much like windower, that could be banable.?

Most good devs will be aware of things like this, and probably use gaming kit when they play as well. The policy is more to stop bots and RTM i would think then your average gamer with a good keyboard/mouse but yes it is the risk in the end, all be it small imo.

But macros for the most part are simply input commands from the keyboard to the pc that you could do yourself over several keys, your just compacting those keys into one.

You can definately sue SE in Europe and the USA. Lots of stuff game publishers write into their terms of use, etc. has no effect as it contradicts local laws or precedents. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_license_agreement the part "Enforceability of EULAs in the United States"

I think the real question is, do you wanna play like an RMT? Really? Ppl wanna complain about rmt but then want to use their own tactics to make life easier. "I dont like the way the nazis ran things in germany, but they arent me so I can do the same things as long as I keep everything for myself" Thats and extreme example, but I think it gets my point across since a majority of us hate nazis and rmt, some (sadly) equally. Granted ur not selling gil but does setting a macro that allows u to walk away and come back later with 10+ ranks on ur crafting, fishing, mining, etc really make it any better? It's just lazy imo.

And who cares about the legalities, if your going to sue se for banning u cause u were lazy and let a macro run the game for you for 10 hrs, you really need to a good hard look inside and ask yourself some seriously honest questions.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

I think the real question is, do you wanna play like an RMT? Really? Ppl wanna complain about rmt but then want to use their own tactics to make life easier. "I dont like the way the nazis ran things in germany, but they arent me so I can do the same things as long as I keep everything for myself" Thats and extreme example, but I think it gets my point across since a majority of us hate nazis and rmt, some (sadly) equally. Granted ur not selling gil but does setting a macro that allows u to walk away and come back later with 10+ ranks on ur crafting, fishing, mining, etc really make it any better? It's just lazy imo.

And who cares about the legalities, if your going to sue se for banning u cause u were lazy and let a macro run the game for you for 10 hrs, you really need to a good hard look inside and ask yourself some seriously honest questions.

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Your talking about botting not just a macro, nice rant though lol.
But no way in hell can you lump most macro's into the kind of stuff you just posted.
Or you'd be saying SE should remove the in game macros as well.

SE should make the game mouse-only... would make most macro tools and bots useless :D