Connected Worlds

This will be a few posts, because of the character limit.

If there's anything I love more than a good crossover in games, I haven't found it yet. Maybe it's functioning grappling hooks, but that's neither here, nor there.

I enjoy speculating on the possibilities of Eorzea being vaguely or remotely connected to other worlds in the franchise, but where games like IX and X allude to them with easter eggs, games like Dissidia and XIV go further.

I know for the most part, we all just say it's for nostalgia, or because Square Enix reuses old enemies and assets (nowadays out of tradition and self-reference more than anything else), but it's more fun to see similarities, and ponder on them.

It's been more or less confirmed that the Void is the only constant between worlds, and even then, it's iffy. However, with the Void being the space between, that means that it sits as a membrane betwixt any one world and another, while occupying its own plane as well. After all, that's essentially where we're going in the next Tower patch.

With that in mind, this could very well be the same Cloud of Darkness that is encountered in FFIII.

The thing is, time doesn't seem to have such an ironclad grip on the Void. Dissidia, from what I can tell, has a significant chunk of its conflict taking place in the void, uniting characters from unrelated eras of their vastly different worlds, dubbing them the Warriors of Light, and setting them against the very being which nearly destroyed all worlds in its thirst to rule the first- that of the original Final Fantasy.

We can, for the most part, confirm that the Void is not just another word for "outer space," for if it were, Cid (VII) would have seen a much less comprehensive cosmos when the team accompanied him there. So how does one get there? Ideally of one's own means, but for us, that's often not the case. We've seen characters lost to the Void, or taken to the Void, but never of our volition. They are stolen by creatures that live on the other side of a space that can't be crossed without somehow employing a fold through a higher dimension than ours.

Somehow we yank creatures through. Occasionally we will blunder into the presence of a hostile voidsent beast or beauty of some kind, though the results will rarely differ. They've punched into our world and we are restricted from theirs in a way that does not sound entirely dissimilar from another realm of spirits and demons from a separate fantasy title of vaguely similar persuasions...

We can be fairly certain we won't be traveling to worlds that are familiar to us from the franchise's past, at least not in the foreseeable future, but I can't help but wonder whether we will travel the Void itself. It brings to mind a similar abysmal "landscape" of floating islands and remnants of eras that passed beyond the realm of imagination or comprehension. The world of Promyvion clings to one's boots, grasping at the material of reality or mass, while lacking the substance or strength to persist anywhere else.

I venture that the path to Promathia was the first taste of the Void for those of us who walked it.

With the arrival of the true Gilgamesh (minus a sorely missed Enkidu, but plus one brilliant rooster), Lightning, Shantotto, and various heralds of other worlds, and given the penchant this dev team has for reveling in the storied annals of this franchise's past, I expect to see the Void at some point, and echoes of the chronological pasts and futures of the series.

After all that pomp and verbiage, I'm left with one question for all of you, including any Loremasters who happen by...

... thoughts?

I like discussing things like this.

*sighs* Not this again...

Don't take everything you see at face value - the development team already came out long ago and said that Hydaelyn is not directly connected to any other FF world - the references to other FF games and characters are just for fanservice and are not the 'originals' (excepting Gilgamesh, Shantotto and Lightning's appearances in the game, which were rather convoluted in explaining their appearances here anyway). The Crystal Tower was also confirmed as not being the FFIII version, but again, just a name reference.

This is the quote from the development team that all but shouts this (that was formerly found here, but the thread in question seems to have disappeared, but I saved Bayohne's post for posterity):

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Q55: There are a lot of names from Ivalice such as Dalmasca, Belias, and Zodiak that have been mentioned, is there some connection between Hydaelyn and Ivalice?

A55: To be absolutely clear, there is no connection between FFXIV’s Hydaelyn and FFXII’s Ivalice. Likewise there is no connection with FFXI’s Vana’diel. Each are their own individual world. Based on this, there are connections between the things that appear in the world, and we’ll be revealing more in the future.

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Think of FFXIV like FFIX - it's a celebration of every FF game that came before it, but it is not a 'hub world' like Dissidia. Yes, there's the Void, but even here in FFXIV, that's just a placeholder term used by Eorzeans to describe 'anything considered 'unEorzean' - hells, they even call squirrels and mice 'Voidsent'.

So apart from a few minor direct crossovers like the Lightning event and Gilgamesh, references to past FF games are just in name only and are not directly connecting FFXIV to any other FF title.

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Originally Posted by Davy_M_Jones

(minus a sorely missed Enkidu, but plus one brilliant rooster)

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I think we got a bargain.

But on topic, I agree with Enkidoh. This idea seems to appear every few weeks from somewhere, but the joy of Final Fantasy IS that it doesn't have a connected universe. It builds up a library of fascinating themes, items, and myths without ever falling pray to the bloated (and confusing) canon so common in other franchises that last this long.

Taking it a face value, it certainly is painful to read before finding the energy to type out a sigh and forge ahead in the endeavor to take the wind out of one's sails, but I'm less interested in connecting the worlds, so much as FURTHER celebrating them.

In spite of official quotes given thus far, I merely nod to the probability of seeing remnants of the past in future events and expansions. If the crystal tower were EXACTLY the same one found in FF3, I'd posture the probability of the world being the same as well, but I'm not. I just like the idea of further chunks of other worlds being mirrored in Eorzea, or glimpsed in the Void.

And I think it wise to contue calling it the Void until we go there in the next Tower dungeon to discover otherwise.

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Originally Posted by WellFooled

I think we got a bargain.

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And I do agree to some extent. The rooster has fit the tone of the plotline relating to Gilgamesh MUCH better than any of his previous versions would have.

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Originally Posted by Davy_M_Jones

I just like the idea of further chunks of other worlds being mirrored in Eorzea

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You can be sure of this. Some are just a few patches away. The Golden Saucer and Bismark (the summon, not the restaurant) are poised to make some long awaited returns in the series.

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Originally Posted by Davy_M_Jones

Somehow we yank creatures through. Occasionally we will blunder into the presence of a hostile voidsent beast or beauty of some kind, though the results will rarely differ. They've punched into our world and we are restricted from theirs in a way that does not sound entirely dissimilar from another realm of spirits and demons from a separate fantasy title of vaguely similar persuasions...

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I'm not so sure. If Shantotto traveled to another place, that happened to be Eorzea, of our own volition, she had to open a passage through the Void. The same with Lightning, but she went to the wrong place.

Also, seeing how Black Magic dabbles into the Void and Xantes' pack, I would not put it beyond our ability to step into the Void at will.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Don't take everything you see at face value - the development team already came out long ago and said that Hydaelyn is not directly connected to any other FF world - the references to other FF games and characters are just for fanservice and are not the 'originals'

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They said they would better explain those characters appearance later, the Void and how it links to Hydaelyn. That is where the World of Darkness comes in.

Well the World of Darkness is the Void in FFXIV so yes we will be travelling in the void, but the part of the void close to FFXIV, so don't expect going to other FF universes, we aren't even sure if the Cloud of Darkness is the same or not. CoD could be a demon kind and not an unique being.

I believe the world of Hydaelyn exists in it's own universe, or at least it's own galaxy. The same can be said for all the other FF games, except perhaps FFXIII /FFXV (same mythos) and FFVII /FFX (Gaia's ancients being X-2 Shinra's descendants).

It's then likely that all of these different universes/galaxies are connected by the power of the Void to form a Multiverse. It's that null state that forms a (probably temporary) bridge for characters like Gilgamesh, Lightning and Shantotto.

e.g. If this diagram is an analogy of the FF Multiverse. The void would be the space/gaps in between each "universe bubble":

http://guardianlv.com/wp-content/upl...is-650x483.jpg

It's possible that what is referenced as the Void in FF XIV is actually a subset of this FF series void, or perhaps even another kind of dimension/world that exists separately all together.

In any case, I get the feeling that FFXIV will explore it's own interpretation of what the void means to Eorzeans a much greater deal as the story expands. (FF stories tend to always progress towards a cosmological/metaphysical understanding as they become developed)

Just to contribute.
Shanotto talks about her time in Eorzea in FF11.

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...e_in_ffxiv_in/
http://i.imgur.com/LXIxbKs.png

That dialogue's from A Shantotto Ascension right? I presumed that line about 'visiting another world' was actually referring to the alternate Vana'diel where her evil counterpart that she swapped places with came from (which was the main theme of that add-on pack). FFXI ASA actually came out in 2010, back when FFXIV version 1.0 was still in beta testing, and long before Yoshi took over as FFXIV producer, and from what I can gather, the use of Shantotto appearing in FFXIV was a recent idea that they hadn't actually thought of back then.

Having said that though, 1.0's original Tanaka storyline did in fact reference a 'coming calamity' a few times, so maybe even Tanaka had planned on some kind of crossover even then (and which Yoshi's team just continued). This is interesting either way - thank you for that Vejjie. :)

And of course, FFXIV did get a special event in FFXI too around the same time the FFXI event was running in FFXIV ARR - but unlike the Shantotto FATE in FFXIV it was just spriggans appearing in Vana'diel and the player was tasked to help send them 'home' (to get silly looking spriggan themed gear and a spriggan fighter to use in the recent 'Monstrosity' monster battle system). Eorzea/Hydaelyn were never mentioned by name at all in the event (at least, not to my knowledge), and there was little explanation as to how they appeared. So it mostly just a handwave away as to how random Eorzean fauna materialized in Vana'diel one day.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

*sighs* Not this again...

anyway). The Crystal Tower was also confirmed as not being the FFIII version, but again, just a name reference.

So apart from a few minor direct crossovers like the Lightning event and Gilgamesh, references to past FF games are just in name only and are not directly connecting FFXIV to any other FF title.

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As far as the Crystal Tower goes, I fail to see what one would name "The Giant Tower Made of Crystal" that's the only of it's kind other than calling it "The Crystal Tower".

As for The Shanttoto event, she basically says her magic riped open a portal in the void and teleported to Eorzia from Vana'diel when an experement went wrong and threw her into a parallel dimension. (Which she believed Eorzia to be).

Lightning, on the other hand, was never physically in Eorzia. She Astro Perjected her self (Albet unintentionally) to Eorzia while in the Crystal Sleep she was in between 13-2 and LR:13. (She actually refrences her crystal sleep in the event as well)

Now as for Gilgimesh, this is where it gets hard to explain if it can be at all.
We've got the "There's only one Gilgimesh" Theory in which all the Gilgimeshes to ever apear are the one Exdeath threw in the Void in FF5, then we've got the "Great Multiverse Theory" in which each FF game takes place in a parrallel dimension to each other. Thus how there can be so many Cids, dozens of Gilgimeshes, a Bahamut in every world ect ect ect.

Now how much proof do we have with the two theorys..... Admittedly none, just a lot of speculation. But either one would solve the Paradox. Either they are worlds seperated by "The Great Rift" of they are Parallel dimensions seperated by "The Void" where they can not normally interact with each other except under extreemly rare occations. (Read "When the devs feel like a camio")

Also the way the void is made out to be in Eorzian Lore, it almost parallels to how Oblivion and Tamriel are related in the Elder Scrolls Univers.

Eorzians even believe the 7 eorzian hells to be in the void. (Simmiler to the Dedric relms being considered hellish places in Elder Scrolls Lore)

So "The World of Darkness", "The Void", and "The Seven Hells" could verry well all be the same place. But we'd have to ask either Cloud of Darkness or Diablos since they are the only void sent that seem to be able to speak (or are willing too).

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Originally Posted by lololink

Well the World of Darkness is the Void in FFXIV so yes we will be travelling in the void, but the part of the void close to FFXIV, so don't expect going to other FF universes, we aren't even sure if the Cloud of Darkness is the same or not. CoD could be a demon kind and not an unique being.

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I have no problem fully accepting that we wouldn't even brush our fingertips against the edges of other Final Fantasy worlds, but I could hardly stay calm at the prospect of even catching whispers or glimpses of shades of worlds already come and gone, known to use by way of our fortunate meta-knowledge of the series.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

We've got the "There's only one Gilgimesh" Theory in which all the Gilgimeshes to ever apear are the one Exdeath threw in the Void in FF5, then we've got the "Great Multiverse Theory" in which each FF game takes place in a parrallel dimension to each other.

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One could even venture to guess that each tale we've seen in which these characters take part are dramatically different retold versions of the same story, terribly distorted over time as eras come and go. With the way voidsent tend to whisper and possess those who dwell in Eorzea and continents beyond, it wouldn't surprise me if fables and myths of these characters might carry from plane to plane. More are willing to speak than we account for, and many enthrall the living with powers they've gained over eons we cannot comprehend. It would not surprise me if there were also a transference of knowledge or legend.

Just an FYI, you can get around the 1,000 word limit if you edit your post.