Red Mage Re-envisioned.

The point of this thread? I've seen a lot of people from FFXI who want red-mage back, yet everybody agrees that it could never happen, because they'd have to

A:Make them really awful at everything or they'd be OP
or
B: Completely change the class and its role until its indistinguishable from an actual "Red Mage"

So, I want your ideas on how they could add a red mage to this game without destroying the concept. I will contribute in my next post.

Red mage can be a "Sword Mage" By this I mean, Prior to becoming a red-mage, they can be mostly close-range melee oriented. Hamstrings, Slashes, Fast-strikes, with a bit of magic thrown in here and there.

Then, Upon becoming a Red Mage, they would gain access to 3 abilities off the global cooldown. "Fire Enchant" "Ice Enchant" "Lightning Enchant". When using one of these, it will cause their sword to glow in this color, and add an effect to whatever ability they use.

Example: Lets say they get a skill called "Hamstring" It has a 10 second heavy attached. "Fire Enchant" will turn it into a 3 second stun. "Ice Enchant" Will turn the heavy into a root. "Lightning Enchant" will Also apply paralyze or slow.

Alternatively it could combo like monk. Ice attacks apply a "chill" effect, then using fire on it will cause them to "shatter" then "melt" causing them to be wet, then lightning will deal extra damage and possibly add things like paralyze when applied on a wet target.

the enchants would be toggles, fire would proc a dot with a nonstacking dot with 5-10% sword related damage, ice would be like bliz 1 in that it slows/heavies while adding 5-10% bonus damage on all attacks relating to melee, lightning would be as said before paralyze with 5-10% damage, a magic based slash stun or 2, and a main and secondary combo focused around both magic and sword techniques

they would use swords and have orbs/foci as secondaries(orb/foci being the class changer unless they switch class equip to the crystals like they should)

Sorry but this sounds more like Mystic Knight rather Red Mage. At the core Red Mage is a jack of all trades that uses both white and black magic. This is difficult to add into the MMO realm because you don't either and over powered or under powered job.

I think one possible solution would be a healer job that has stance changes. In Astral stance uses the element spells of stone, aero, and water. In Umbral stance the player has DPS spells of fire, ice, and thunder. The trick is Astral Stance buffs player while Umbral debuffs enemy. The overall goal is a healer class that uses buff and debuff alternatively to keep the party and tank alive. Obviously the job will have access to cure and curaga.

Astral Stance:
Stonega = % group physical defense
Aeroga = % group parry / evasion
Waterga = % group magic defense

Umbral Stance : AoE Damage plus the follow effects
Firaga = % attack power debuff
Blizzaga = % slow debuff
Thundaga = % magic attack power debuff

Please note while this may sound like another job or jobs from XI, the idea is from the core understanding that Red Mage cast both white magic and black magic spells.

Since 3.0 will have at least 3 new jobs that don't have a base class (Astrologian, Machinist, and Dark Knight), it is conceivable that Red Mage may come as it's own job sometime in the future. So the Sword Mage class (or Fencer, as many of us have speculated it would be before classes jobs were announced) will likely be skipped entirely.

I could go on how I'd like RDM to be set up, but I'm not feeling like writing an essay or listing everything out :P I posted in a thread or two about Red Mage and what I'd like to see a while back. If I recall I had two setups, the gist of my thoughts being something like:

1st setup had base Fencer attacks and abilities, and the RDM job would get 3 Enspells (sword enchantments) that work like Paladin's Sword Oath, each with different effects. The other two job abilities would probably be like Composure (extend length of enspell) and Stymie (extend length of next DoT).

2nd setup would have the attacks be kind of set up like the Ravager melee attacks in Final Fantasy XIII (flamestrike, froststrike, sparkstrike, aerostrike, etc.) rather than use persistent (or having to reapply) Enspells like RDM's FFXI counterpart.

I think the latter setup would work for a classless job version of Red Mage, as it gives many more options for job abilities that can make RDM feel more like RDM (black and white magic). Now I kind of feel like trying to make one lol.

Imb4 Astrologian

Just Give me Refresh and let me stab things with magic is the TL;DR.

Refresh is a job ability that can only be cast on others for a MP regen HoT. When you cast refresh on others, you also get a mirrored effect on yourself. Oh look, no lolRDM because you can't do it wrong. BUT WUT ABOUT SOLO PLAY? Cast it on your chicken idiot.

With a NIN and RDM you aren't required to bring a BRD to Coil/Raids in case no one you play video games with thinks bard is fun.

• If you want RDM to have more support give them Stoneskin with the trait or regen.
• If you want more of a niche, give them a raid wide Magic Defense buff or some form of Phallanx that you can cast on tanks to give them a free Defensive cooldown.
• If you want more zerg for the job, give them Haste or Temper as an aura or -Ga Spell.
• You can also give them vulnerability abilities like Foe's Req or Trick Attack, but be very careful with this because if it stacks too much it can be too good and if it doesn't stack then you start taking away other people's job/role viability. THAT MAKES PEOPLE FEEL LIKE SHIT ABOUT THEIR JOB, THAT THEY LIKE, WHICH IS WHY THEY ARE PLAYING IT. DON'T MAKE PEOPLE WEIGHT THE WORTH OF THEIR JOB BECAUSE OF MIN/MAXING. THEY WILL HAVE LESS FUN. Any RDM from XI will know why I'm CAPSLOCKING the shit out of that statement and I would hope none would want that to happen to others.

Pick some of the above and make sure the job does enough damage to support its duty finder claim that it is a DPS. Is it good at single target DPS or AoE Burst? I don't care which, but it has to be be either really good at one and decent at the other or good at both. Currently, I feel bards are slipping from being a real DPS and I hate doing dungeons with them because their DPS is poop across the board. If BRD is supposed to be a support, then make a duty finder role called support and make the game unnecessarily more complicated. Personally, I just think BRDs should do more damage so they can stop being lackluster when i get two of them in a dungeon. I don't want RDM to fall into the problem that it doesn't contribute enough damage in a MMO...again. MMOs are all about the damage. This game and this community certainly thinks so.

Basic requirements for my happiness is RDM is a melee DPS and has an auto attack that gets enhanced by an enspell that causes additional magic damage. I don't care if we only have 1 enspell so long as it does damage and does some kind of cool looking magical affect every time I stab something along with a sound effect so that i can enjoy the aesthetics of a rhythm or tempo for my attacks.

Want to make me really happy? Add Chrono Trigger or Vivi + Steiner Magic Sword techs. Not holding my breath though. Give them a long cast nuke to go with Swiftcast. Boom! Dual Cast? BOOM BOOM! EXPLOSION!

Debuffs like slow and paralyze are not very impressive in this game since they won't stop big moves from bosses that cause raids to wipe. I don't really care about interrupt mechanics either because they were prevalent in first coil with the NEED for silencing boss mechanics. Those mechanics are getting used less because they are boring and not really fun. When does DRGs 2 Stuns and 1 Slow ever get highlighted? How about MNKs 1 ilm punch? They don't because they are garbage. My personal vote goes for getting fluid aura from conjurer and that's it. If you need an interrupt, it's there. It has some additional utility, mostly for trolling my friends.

RDM OUT!

Just make them a sword using class with access to all whm and blm spells through cross class. Let them choose their own abilities through that to determine if they want to focus on stronger heals or stronger dmg spells.

Their traits could give access to astral fire and umbral ice if they have a fire and ice spell cross classes, ect. Or free cures if they take cure 1 and cure 2.

The details? I'm not thinking on it to much atm, but the idea behind making a job that utilizes the cross class system sounds awesome and rdm would make the most sense out of it.

I think it would depend a lot on how you want the RDM to feel. The classic red mage has basic physical attacks, spells, and heals.

I don't think it would be unreasonable to have a job with the basic heals as its utility, and some sort of resource that encourages balancing or swapping between MP and TP consumption for magical and physical attacks. A few RDM-appropriate abilities like twinspell and dispel would round it off nicely.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Sorry but this sounds more like Mystic Knight rather Red Mage. At the core Red Mage is a jack of all trades that uses both white and black magic.

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From the get go, RDM has always been a class that uses both black and white magic (aka casts supportive and damaging spells) and uses a sword. The sword has always been the iconic weapon for the RDM. A staff wielding mage who sits in the back in light armor who casts black and white magic is a Scholar and is already represented in the game. A sword wielding mage who wears slightly heavier armor is a Red Mage.

If they got the BRD treatment as a (melee) DPS with supportive abilities (ie Refresh as an MP version of Goad) they'd fit perfectly into the game while still maintaining their iconic look and feel.

I'd say screw Red Mage entirely and bring in Mystic Knight as a DPS, and not a Tank like Rune Fencer. Red Mage to me is tooooo far out to think upon it.

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Originally Posted by Best-MNK-NA

From the get go, RDM has always been a class that uses both black and white magic (aka casts supportive and damaging spells) and uses a sword. The sword has always been the iconic weapon for the RDM. A staff wielding mage who sits in the back in light armor who casts black and white magic is a Scholar and is already represented in the game. A sword wielding mage who wears slightly heavier armor is a Red Mage.

If they got the BRD treatment as a (melee) DPS with supportive abilities (ie Refresh as an MP version of Goad) they'd fit perfectly into the game while still maintaining their iconic look and feel.

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FFXI =/= FF series. You can give my version of Red Mage a rapier and still have them be a healer. Also SCH is a book wielding healer who uses fairies and barrier spells in FFXIV.

Don't limit yourselves to what FFXI did but look at the entire series. If the devs did that we would just have FFXI-2 with little hope of seeing Magitek armor, Golden Saucer, or Ultros and Gilgamesh.

Actually, Four things stand out to me about Red Mage. Black and White magic, Melee skills, Being less than perfect at both ((experience from V, may not hold to all games)) , and having Double cast.

What if they built it around the last one. Allow two actions during one GCD, netting different results depending on how you set it up. Lead in with a particular melee attack, no Casting timer, enabling ((Think Seifer's Limit break)), Black spell then White spell, maybe heal some MP on top?

In light of the response of this thread, Red mage is far too specific to compromise. It would be a difficult class to implement.


However, I have decided I really want a Mystic Knight class DPS class...

SE would just make the Red Mage a baseless job like the Astrologian, Machinist and Dark Knight.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

FFXI =/= FF series. You can give my version of Red Mage a rapier and still have them be a healer. Also SCH is a book wielding healer who uses fairies and barrier spells in FFXIV.

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When I said "from the get go" I meant it. RDM in the very first game used swords. The sword has always been closely linked to RDM except for FFXII where they used Maces but then could upgrade to the great sword.

SCH is currently a class that is a healer (white magic) who can also DPS (black magic). Another healer whose gimmick is the same thing wouldn't really add much. Of course, a buff/debuff based healer would be a nice addition since it looks like true support isn't an option in this game and RDM would fit that just fine. But I think the most perfect representation of them would be as a supportive melee dps, since that way you can highlight their healing magic, offensive magic, and swordplay. But I'm biased because that'd pretty much be the perfect class for me.

Most Series FF games have RDM with an Excalibur or other top tier melee weapon as their weapon of choice at endgame. You might have to choose your party carefully so that your ultimate weapons don't overlap with a knight/paladin if there is only 1 of them in the game.

The general theme of RDM is they attack for about 2/3 of a regular melee and about 1/2 to 2/3 of a BLM with the same level magic. This was important when there where enemies that were extremely resistant to damage types because RDM could generally do them all.

This MMO GENERALLY does not have those mechanics prevalent (T2, T11 are the only notable exceptions I've encountered). So if they make RDM, they need to make it on par with the rest of the DPS. Generally having split type damage in this game, ie sword (piercing or slashing) and magic, would be a bad thing because that would be two different debuffs that you would want on a target to do optimal DPS. This game's balance is built around the optimal DPS of a job regardless of the situations it seems. So a Jack of All trades that RDM generally falls into is not a reliable choice so much as it would be a liability unless it was properly balanced.

I think rdm wont get added because ( I think ) ppl just want them because they were OP as crap in ff11 and SE would obviously disappoint everyone by bringing a balanced job into the game oO

Sword skills and combos that can proc instant cast magic skills that can do damage and/or debuffs the enemy.

Combo One:
Quick Strike
Heavy Strike
Flame Strike (chance to proc a free fire cast)
Or
Lightning Strike (Chance to instant cast thunder or static)

Some buffs would be Double Cast, Elemental Seal(increase magic damage), and Elemental Blade which would proc extra damage of said element from the 3rd tier combo.

Healing wise one combo could add a buff to healers or after you finish the combo it could do a small heal Ina certain radius.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

I think rdm wont get added because ( I think ) ppl just want them because they were OP as crap in ff11 and SE would obviously disappoint everyone by bringing a balanced job into the game oO

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So you stopped playing at Treasures or Wings. Got it. RDM =/=OP for the last 5 years and generally is one of the worst jobs to bring to anything from Abyssea on. People just kept playing RDM for fun, because they liked the job.


NIN is balanced...and just came into the game recently...you make little to no sense. Thanks for being on the internet.

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Originally Posted by Jamez82

Cross Class idea?

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That doesn't sound... great. At all. Why would anyone choose to focus on healing if they have access Astral Fire and Umbral Ice? Even with Free Cure focusing on WHM would be utterly useless because I would assume they would have to queue up as a DPS (unless they implement some sort of role changing mechanic...), but then I can't really see how you could choose only 5 spells from WHM that would make you even close to useful when compared to other healers. Astral Fire and Umbral Ice are just better abilities over all. Free Cure only effects 1 spell, and is random.

Unless you are saying they would get a larger selection of CC abilities which I would say... why? That'd be completely unbalanced.

EDIT: Also... Umbral Ice + Healing? That would be so OP that even if they were a "DPS" they would be the best healer in the game. =/