Square Can't Use any of your ideas. Legally. Why do they ask for our advise?

Browsing Reddit I found something that made me think;

A customer sent a letter to Square with an idea for a movie.

This is Square's response:

http://i.imgur.com/u8RLZ.jpg

Why are they asking for our advise if they stated they legally can't use it?

Now I know this is not a recent letter, and things might have changed, but the principal still stands no?

Source:
http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comme...to_squaresoft/

Maybe there's a difference between a new idea for a whole project (like a movie) and feedback on an already existing project.
MMORPGs are different anyways, because they are pretty much the only media which are NOT finished upon release. Books, movies and console games all are finished, but MMORPGs are always worked on further, mainly to make the community happy, so they kind of need feedback from the players.

Just what I think, though.

Well they can if they ask and we give it to them. This person wrote TOO Square-EA *chuckles*. SE did not "request" their opinion or thoughts as they are now. I do not know if what I say is true but from the letter and what is currently going on, I'll venture to say I'm pretty close as to why it's ok what we are all doing compared to a letter just randomly sent to them. ;)

Can't they just have a ToS that states anything posted on the forums becomes property of SE and can be used?

I think movie's are a little different. They are involved in a lot more lawsuits from people who pitch ideas and then sue later when a movie uses similar themes or characters. I remember on a tour ride of Universal Studies they said people would write scripts and throw them over the fence. Then later when a movie came out that had themes from their script they would sue them.

I'm thinking its because you can easily attribute something like a script or movie pitch to a person/people and you have to get into a bunch of legal stuff from copyrights and all that. Getting game feedback where pretty much any idea is being asked for by at least a couple hundred people in a situation where they are specifically asking for it is much different.

That letter was also written while they were working on The Spirits Within. Accepting a brand-new movie idea at that time is pretty much a slap in the face to the other group and it would be nasty dealing with studios/agencies/etc if they likely became disgruntled. If you got a chance to make a movie based on a big name like Final Fantasy, if some other bozo comes along and gets that chance too I'd be a little angry too.

The difference is that SE already own the IP for Final Fantasy 14. When they ask us "what would you like" we give them an answer about their product. In the case of a movie that I write (even if it is only a one sentence description) I own the IP by virtue of having created documentation that shows I have created an idea. SE -could- take that idea if they wanted, but only legally if the proper contracts were filled out (and in the case of a successful movie, it could be argued that if I gave the movie to them, SE accepted in bad faith, knowing that they were screwing me over, therefore creating a legal issue should I ever argue that bad faith in court. In the US at least, that is the sort of copyright case that -would- win, if I remember precedents correctly).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rynithon

I think movie's are a little different. They are involved in a lot more lawsuits from people who pitch ideas and then sue later when a movie uses similar themes or characters. I remember on a tour ride of Universal Studies they said people would write scripts and throw them over the fence. Then later when a movie came out that had themes from their script they would sue them.

---

Good idea!

Ya I agree, an MMORPG is always growing and changing. And ya they asked us for input lol.

haha that is a good idea! *starts writing a script* :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xenor

Can't they just have a ToS that states anything posted on the forums becomes property of SE and can be used?

---

My thinking exactly. Something to this effect is most likely already in the ToS.

General ideas for game mechanics vs the ideas for a movie or a plot for a game (where we start getting into Intellectual Property Law) are slightly different, Mog.

The person who submitted their idea to Square probably involved certain FF characters, a plot, etc. We're just giving general feedback (such as ideas to improve game playability, enjoyment, etc...) that doesn't necessarily jump into the purview of IP Law. Basically, we're not really creating the story or plot behind FFXIV. I suspect the person involved in that letter was, though not necessarily about XIV itself.

There's probably a better way to phrase this, but as I am not really an expert on Intellectual Property, that is pretty much the best way I can explain it.

Well from DEV posts it shows they have recieved ideas and plan to use some of the ones they like.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coombah

Well from DEV posts it shows they have recieved ideas and plan to use some of the ones they like.

---

This is what I was thinking about.

They can use our wishes in general to shape the game to something we want to play, as a service and not as intellectual property. They're not using one specific person's ideas, but the general consensus on what people want in the game to form their own decisions. That's how it works.

The people who post things like "this is exactly how the job system should work and here's what every job gets at each new level" are the kinds of things that get ignored. But when 100 people say they want classes to have more definition, that kind of general stuff they can use.

well tbh i feel like all of us are test drivers lol or product testers. Though i realize that shouldve prolly been happening more when beta was out. But i dont mind us giving them input at all, MMORPGs change all the time it grows, and keeps developing for ages, I'm glad they listen to us. :)

Just read the terms of service and the forum rules. The forums are subject to the terms of service outlined for the game in addition to a few other prohibited activities. The key point being SE owns all material related to the game, including any written communication used on their services. So yes, you could outline something very specific, and they could use it exactly, and it would be legal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coombah

Well from DEV posts it shows they have recieved ideas and plan to use some of the ones they like.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DoctorMog

This is what I was thinking about.

---

Right and it seems logical but no one person is giving an idea(s) and they aren't getting this info randomly. When someone asks you for assistance or w/e it happens to be and you "freely" *key word there being free* ;) you can't turn around and expect or request monetary or other compensation. They asked, we gave end of story.

The moment we do or anyone does... I would bet SE would shut down those Devs sections and the progression of what we would like in Eorzea will slow or end completely. Maybe not...enough info is here. lol We are all currently live Beta testers and I for one don't care. it's been fun since I came back, though a tad lonely. :( But overall, this game might just pull it out and be another great MMORPG such as XI and i will play it for as long.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by origamikitsune

Just read the terms of service and the forum rules. The forums are subject to the terms of service outlined for the game in addition to a few other prohibited activities. The key point being SE owns all material related to the game, including any written communication used on their services. So yes, you could outline something very specific, and they could use it exactly, and it would be legal.

---

Then there is this. ^ haha

I would also say its because they asked us for feedback while they own all the copyrights to the games, I could write a script, copyright it without mentioning its copyrighted and if SE use it I could sue them for stealing copyrighted material. Suggestons on a forum, especially when specificly asked by the devs cannot be copyrighted so anyone can use it.

This is why the forums have a separate sign-up than the game and square enix account. Secondly, this was in 2001, why should it be relevant 10 years later? I'm sure things change over the span of 10 years.

With that idea there was a specific person who suggested the idea, so if they used the idea that person could claim rights to it. Here on the forums and with their surveys, it is usually majority opinions and everyone helping out, and a lot of it is anonymous, so it would be hard for someone to claim that it was their idea. I don't have any real knowledge of the legal system so idk, but this is just what came to mind.

I want Nuru Sanura to appear in the credits and I want payment in USD for every idea of mine they use. :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nuru

I want Nuru Sanura to appear in the credits and I want payment in USD for every idea of mine they use. :P

---

lol i need to give input more often around here XD

That letter is from close to 10 years ago when EA did all the NA coorespondences with American players. EA wasnt going to send ideas to Japan. SE is no longer part of EA and they have accepted all kinds of suggestions and ideas from players.

they can take feedback and use ideas, im not sure the whole legal precedent, but most actual products do have a feedback loop, i guess there is a major difference in the timing of the advice. Also may have to do with the form in which we are giving it, as in doing it in a forum. but whatever the case, im sure its as legal as anything else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DoctorMog

Browsing Reddit I found something that made me think;

A customer sent a letter to Square with an idea for a movie.

This is Square's response:

http://i.imgur.com/u8RLZ.jpg

Why are they asking for our advise if they stated they legally can't use it?

Now I know this is not a recent letter, and things might have changed, but the principal still stands no?

Source:
http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comme...to_squaresoft/

---

i think it may be in the script, stealing someone elses writing is plagiarism. Since many of the ideas we have already exist in other games i dont think they can be copyrighted.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DoctorMog

Browsing Reddit I found something that made me think;

A customer sent a letter to Square with an idea for a movie.

This is Square's response:

http://i.imgur.com/u8RLZ.jpg

Why are they asking for our advise if they stated they legally can't use it?

Now I know this is not a recent letter, and things might have changed, but the principal still stands no?

Source:
http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comme...to_squaresoft/

---

Like you said.. its an 10 Years old letter at least. SquareSOFT did not take ideas from the Public for their Offline RPG's.

Why would the principal still stand? Its SquareEnix now.. well actually Square... with a lot new People, new Teams, new Ideas and new Opinions. They TOOK a lot of ideas into FFXI and FFXIV.. its just logical that they cant TAKE all. Ideas which look good for a couple people, does not mean that they are good Ideas at all. And its FFXIV a MMO.. where a lot ppl play together, which was not the Fact for the Letter, which was most likely for a RPG.

Is this a try to bash SE or something?

This has nothing to do with legality or something, if you aim at the Feedback they want from the FFXIV community. Feedback is different to Ideas from other Games, which are under ©.

Legally you can't just take someone's idea then use it for a movie or a game, however taking a suggestion like "This armor should be red instead of blue!" or "We should be able to raise our chocobos!" is far different from "Here's a 570 page script for a Final Fantasy movie, make it."

Well, being Squaresoft that seems pretty old. Maybe times have changed =)