Rather than trying to layer jobs on top of classes, wouldn't it be easier to simply abolish classes and replace them with jobs? I don't want a system that is substandard just because it's trying to piggy back on existing structure.
For example, most of the spells we'd commonly associate with BLM currently belong to CON. However, a few also belong to THM. Being able to equip random abilities from one class to another sounds cool in theory, but so far it's been mostly an excuse to rank up every class out there, with you being somewhat handicapped if you only have one class ranked up.
I'd expect that after leveling up a job, you have all of the tools that suit that job. If you want to grab other abilities, great. But having to rank CON and THM both to 50, then layer BLM on top of CON, just to have Aspir II (sorry, Siphon MP II!), seems ridiculous.
Speaking of which, I have no idea why you're so limited in which abilities you have equipped. The "max point value" is especially tight if you're a CON. Better only equip the spells that are strong to whatever you're fighting, then switch out abilities when something else comes along!
This whole system is extremely convoluted and weak, and needs a complete overhaul. Rather than limiting which abilities you can have in general, perhaps just limit which "off class" abilities you have? Like, let me equip all of my CON (or, preferably, BLM) abilities, and if I want to equip some RDM stuff, fine! But there's only so much I can tack on before it's too much. I'd much rather do that than be like, "well, I better junk Quake, because I need room for Siphon MP II!".
Please rethink everything about the armoury system, and just give us jobs instead. Let us know what your plans are here, so the community can provide feedback. Preferably before you get too excited and committed to this work. I think it's safe to say we'd like to see something different than what is currently in place.
Abolish classes altogether.
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08-17-2011, 06:44 AMHirukeAbolish classes altogether.
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08-17-2011, 07:31 AMAtoliQuote:
Originally Posted by Hiruke
No, I like what they intend to do and I don't like your idea.
No explanation needed, I just like their concept better. -
08-18-2011, 03:16 AMSinistradian
I happen to agree with the OP here. There was nothing wrong with the way the jobs were designed and set up in FFXI and there should be no need to change them. Why? Because thats what Final Fantasy is all about. Why developers feel they need to reinvent the wheel is beyond me. I would have been fine with a new graphical upgrade, tweaked UI, tweaked questing system, FFXI when they desogned this game. There is no reason why the dev's can't give us more "Skill" points to equip more things to our bars. And theres something else...why jump on the Wow bandwagon and implement bars in the first place? What is wrong with the old menu based system that has been in...wait for it...every Final Fantasy to date but this one?
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08-18-2011, 03:26 AMelreed
What i think will happen with this system is that the class system will be some kind of SUBJOB like ffxi,
they say that you cant cross class with jobs, so just to make an example if you are a dragoon, in this case the obvious subjob would be lancer, you can only use the abbilities that lancer gives you besides the abbilities that dragoon gives to you by unlocking them, so in a way you would be a better damage dealer but wouldnt be able to solo as you do with lancer,
with black mage is the same you get to have all the conjurer spells and new ones or more powerful ones but cant cure anyone, because you are supposed to be a damage dealer mage, as paladin you get to use gladiators abbilities and get a few cure spells, enhance deffense abbilities but with less damage than gladiator, etc. -
08-18-2011, 07:45 AModette
why want same system of ffxi???
job system like ffxi was unballance, always party setup is crap
subjob, variabilty???, come one SJ in ffxi everyone have sj ninja if you are melee or rng, mages /whm if you are whm/blm
mmmm job system ok, but i'm disagree with Subjob system
the actual system is ok -
08-18-2011, 07:21 PMBiggsWedgeAre you serious? I love when people show their ignorance in public.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinistradian
First off; how is having an action bar jumping on the Wow-bandwagon? I'm as anti-Wow as the next guy but come on! You do realize that FFXI was one of the only mmorpg's not to have an action bar, don't you?
I agree that every Final Fantasy game has had a drop down battle menu.... BUT... all but one of them were single player only (not counting the crystal chronicles fiasco) and you were given time to figure out a battle strategy... or even pause the game and walk away. Could you pause FFXI? I don't think so.
You think you know what Final Fantasy is all about, huh? I'm sorry it's beyond you that the developers keep reinventing the wheel. Obviously you haven't played many titles from the series so I'll fill you in: EVERY FINAL FANTASY IS UNIQUE. Look back at past Final Fantasy titles. Are any of them using the same world, using the same characters or fighting the same antagonist in an ever-continuing over played story? No, if that was the case, they wouldn't have made over a dozen titles. Of course sequels are an exception to what I just said but in no way is FFXIV a sequel to FFXI. I'm sorry, did you think you were playing FFXI2?
I'm sick of everyone complaining about a game that is still in BETA. Enjoy it while it's F2P. FYI, the devs are extremely over worked and are stressed out trying to make a quality product for everyone. Yoshida works 18 hours days and gets maybe 3 hours of sleep each night. He is doing an amazing job making up for Tanaka's mistakes so just give them a break and stop whining and complaining.
A wise man once said to me: You can pave the roads in gold and people will say "Why didn't you pave it in platinum?" so you scrape off all the gold and repave the roads in platinum and a multitude more will come and say "I liked the roads better in gold."
If you want a graphically enhanced clone of FFXI then I suggest to you: Don't hold your breath or better yet; just quit, we don't need your kind. -
08-18-2011, 07:39 PMAshToreth
Jeez Biggs! You sure flamegrilled his steak! lol
I'd perhaps have toned it down some , but I agree with Biggs -
08-18-2011, 10:34 PMDexterityJones
I support Biggs's statement.
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08-19-2011, 12:02 AMKalamia
I would have to agree with Biggs here, although I found his wording a bit hostile.
I certainly understand the desire to go back to what you found familiar and enjoyable, and FFXI definitely had its up points, but this system has its merits as well. Two in particular I have discovered:
1: The job system in FFXI, while true that it did clearly define your role, made is a little too defined. Ninjas and paladins were tanks, monks and black mages were damage dealers, white mages healed, and so on. Certain jobs (i.e. warrior) would change their role at specific levels, but anyone who even tried to break out of this mold was screamed at and immediately kicked out of the party. Their setup made them just a bit more effort than the rest of the group thought was worth, and so this simply never happened. Of course, I believe this is as much due to human nature as the programming, but still. The ability to mix and match your abilities and stats (although it seems this part will be going away next patch), it's not so required to work your job in a specific way. If, by your suggestion, conjurer gained all the "black mage" abilities and thaumaturge gained the "white mage" abilities (I assume would be the tradeoff), I frankly would be furious that my favorite job has been reduced to just another damage dealer. And face it, in a party's view, that's just what a black mage was.
2: For the majority of FFXI's existence, partying was forced upon you. With the exception of certain jobs--and then usually only at certain points or after obtaining certain abilities, no job could effectively solo. A paladin could laugh off most hits and could heal any enough to be worrysome, but his low damage meant the simplest battles would drag on forever. Any sort of damage dealer had the opposite problem--high enough damage to rip through enemies, but they had the same power over him. The current class system means that it's possible to solo with any job so long as you mix together some healing, offence and defensive abilities.
This certainly doesn't mean that the current class system is perfect, but I for one do not want a total overhaul. -
08-19-2011, 12:39 AMsyntaxliesthey are redoing the classes before they implement jobs, since that has not happened you have nothing to base this on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiruke
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08-19-2011, 04:49 PMBiggsWedgeQuote:
Originally Posted by Kalamia
Yeah... after re-reading what I said I feel a little bad. I guess I was having a bad day and whiny people make me rage. Nothing personal to Sinistradian, every ignorant person still deserves to be heard although their opinion doesn't count for shit.