[Deleting this for now, thanks for the input guys, I think it was way too much information for one post. I'll keep a hold of it for now and maybe put the most important parts into separate posts]
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12-31-2014, 07:05 AMSaboto[Long Post] FFXIV Problems & Feedback: Combat, Classes/Jobs, QoL & Limitations
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12-31-2014, 07:13 AMCronno
Did you just say the combat is too easy and slow? You haven't even cleared any extremes, son.
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12-31-2014, 07:30 AMVerlyn
I like that you have lots of feedback--and some of it is very good too. But man do you put such divisive feedback under the same post. I agree with just about everything you've said about animation lag, healing and combat, but I can't give you that Like--which devs really do pay attention to--because I absolutely do not agree with "Cross Class Skill System Doesn't Work, Rehaul the Entire Class System To Be Exactly WoW's."
A: Cross Class skills have barely even been tried. This implementation hasn't even begun to explore its potential--It's barebones at best. Why should they give up on it before it's even been explored?
B: If I want to have a WoW style talent and spec system, I'll play WoW. Issues with the armory system can be addressed without throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I'd rather they try first before resorting to an overhaul so extreme. -
12-31-2014, 07:32 AMKatsaria
I appreciate the post but I absolutely do NOT want a talent tree in this game at all.
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12-31-2014, 08:13 AMaxemtitanium
Some of this is good feedback, but I can't give you a like either. Yes, there are aspects of the game that need work certainly but a lot of things you're complaining about here are just weird, overly specific, sound too whiny, or are already announced as coming in the near future.
Combat
Expansion pack will address most of your points in Combat. More abilities and passives with level cap increase; new healer type with Astrologian. I don't think there's any particular benefit to decreasing the length of the GCD any further. So many people I see in duty finder seem incapable of pressing a button every 2.5 seconds that I can't imagine they'd do any better if it were 1.5 seconds.
Apparently you have chosen to turn auto-face target off for some incomprehensible reason. In the one situation where the game prioritizes the action over the animation, which you complain about later, you have chosen to not use it because the snap turn around "makes my character look a little silly". If you turn it back on, you'll have zero problems with the attacking/casting radius. The animation delay on other instants is kind of annoying to be fair.
Ground targeting being prepared during cast bars is coming.
Armoury System
The Armoury System section is just a litany of armchair game design, "I wouldn't have designed it THAT way...", with little understanding of why the things were made the way they were and offers a solution in search of a problem. Specs exist in World of Warcraft because you are only allowed to level one class per character in that game. If you wanted to change your party role, you would have to create a whole new character. In this game, everyone can play every class, so rather than having 3 specs per class, the designers have opted to just make more distinct classes. Don't like how one class plays? Just change to a different one, no need to futz around with different specs of the same class with its associated annoying minutia about changing specs. If it's too hard to change spec, people will complain about being locked in. If it's too easy to change spec, people will just say it was pointless, just make a whole new class at that point. Instead, the designers chose to avoid the debate altogether with the Armoury System.
QoL
Holy crap is your friend ADHD or something? He can't move his character for 5-15 seconds and he quits the game? Some of the QoL changes mentioned here are warranted. Others are already in the game and you just don't know about it.
Tab targeting has settings. The default is a straightforward left-to-right tab based on the center of each enemy's targeting circle. This can get confusing if enemies are moving around a lot and you might cycle back to an enemy you just targeted if it moves to the right after you tabbed through it. There are different settings based on distance which you can experiment with to see what feels right for you.
You can permanently change the chat box to whatever you want by typing "/p" (or "/fc" or whatever you want) by itself and pressing enter. It will stay like that until you change it. There IS a keybind to automatically whisper the last person who whispered to you. I think the default is ALT+R, and it shows the name of the person you're going to whisper.
Most of the rest of the stuff I don't have particular umbrage with but it's enough that I can't wholeheartedly support your post. The game certainly has areas where it can improve, but a small bit of testing or asking other players would have led you to realize that a lot of stuff you're complaining about is already addressed and you didn't even know it. -
12-31-2014, 08:30 AMRoris
The GCD was said to be like that because "it gives a tactical old school FF feel", but in all honestly it's just server issues. Their cardboard servers can barely handle the game at its current pacing, I don't think they could handle faster update speeds until they actually upgrade them, if ever. Heck a lot of stuff isn't really tailored for the 2.5s GCD either, DoTs tick every 3s because that's what the alpha GCD was and they never changed it accordingly, probably because their servers would explode. I'd love to have WoW's responsiveness one day, along with more exploration, bigger maps, more unique stats and gear and a lot of those QoL fixes.
Sadly it's stuff that most likely won't even be in Heavensward and probably not even until they drop PS3 support if that, and if the game even lasts as long as P2P, which could or could not happen. -
12-31-2014, 08:46 AMTeslo
I like a lot of what you've said, especially about combat "Lag". I think that the devs should seriously read through this.
Some things I disagree with: Combat is too slow. It's not too slow. Combat is... Just about right. There are some things that could be sped up a little (I think a 2 second GCD would be a little better. 2.5 is just barely too long), but I like the feel of it. Please remember that in WoW you virtually HAVE to have an addon to be able to heal. I've only met one person in the years since it launched that healed without using an Addon to manage what they were doing. The extra time to think is HUGE and makes it actually FUN to heal. I hated healing in WoW. I actually enjoy doing it in FFXIV. You're right on the money when you talk about how the GCD runs into casting times, though. This is a problem which can be addressed by reducing the casting time of many spells. The way buffs and debuffs are handled is absolutely atrocious. As a BLM, I've run into the swiftcast issue many times where I hit Flare before Swiftcast is done. I shouldn't be able to do that. Or the problem where Firestarter procs after I've started casting the next spell, but I lose it if it procs again, essentially losing that free hit. But it's a DPS LOSS if I stop casting to use the proc. So it's a lose/lose situation, which blows. I actually like talent trees, but it has to be done right, and not even WoW has that down. Hell, they abandoned the idea. RIFT came a lot closer, but their system is really REALLY in depth. Though it DOES lead to a LOT of interesting builds.
All in all, you make some very good points that the devs should seriously take in to consideration. But I would like to encourage you and others to stop pretending you're devs by making "Proposals" and instead simply give "Feedback" with your "Opinions". -
12-31-2014, 09:29 AMEggnook24
Wow. Firstly, thank you for posting such a detailed rant of what the game should be. WoW didn't start off with all the bells and whistles it has now after a decade, give FFXIV a little time.
Secondly, everything you wrote would be an extreme overhaul of the entire game. Sure, a few of your changes would be easy to implement immediately, but for all the WoW fanboy suggestions you'd place in game, it would be a completely DIFFERENT game. Namely, WoW.
You annoyed me with this post, and I don't really know why. It's well thought out, detailed, and well written. But you did.
It just sounds like you want to play a polished decade old Final Fantasy game. I believe FFXI still exists. -
12-31-2014, 10:53 AMKatsariaIn name only.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eggnook24
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12-31-2014, 02:29 PMSylveThe global recast feels damned good to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roris
In WoW, combat was mashing the keys as hard and fast as you possibly can because with a 1sec GCD you'll miss out on DPS and procs if you aren't smashing keys hard and fast.
Warriors before the change to Heroic Strike having an internal cooldown damn near gave me carpal tunnel.
WoW has a 1 second GCD, DoTs tick every 3 seconds there too (Lately, Haste reduces the time between ticks). So that argument holds exactly no water either.
As an old school vanilla onwards WoW player, the combat pacing here in XIV is *just* slow enough that i can use a skill and take a moment to survey what that did before making my next choice, double checking my buffs to make sure I'm using the right skills, keeping an eye out on the status of my party etc.
Then i compare the warrior here to warriors now on WoW...
Devastate=infinity. Shield Slam. Devastate some more. Revenge. Devastate more. Devastate a bit more. Some more Devastates. Better make sure you dont miss a global. oo Shield Slam proc. Devastate. Devastate.
WoW is not any more responsive in combat compared to XIV, it just has the most basic of basic 'animations' ever (Seriously. Devastate/Heroic Strike on most races just has you pirouette on the spot. And with how much you have to use those two buttons ...)
WoW only looks/feels faster because the 'animations' have to get done in less than one second.
Often you're attacking so damnably fast that the animations(lol) start bleeding into each other, where i can still have the silly Devastate sword above my target when hitting Heroic Strike and then its only *just* vanished before it pops up again because moar devastate spam!
Ever seen an undead female warrior tank? They just jump up and down on the spot. The whole fight. start to finish. Up down up down up down.
I realize i used the Warrior in WoW a lot to make my point, But its the same across all classes. Hell, if you thought BLM had a bland rotation, try the Arcane Mage in WoW .. Arcane Blast. Thats it. Oh sometimes you might use Arcane Missiles. Sometimes.
And don't even get me started on WoWs frenetic heal spam. Good lord.
WoW classes are the most boring and generic ones I've ever played, Hell, Neverwinter classes have more personality than WoW classes.
I apologize for perhaps a derailment, but posters like the one i quoted seem to have rose colored glasses welded to their eyeballs.
The fix for this is, i think, a simple one. They just need to make certain off the GCD skills like Benediction, Lustrate and especially Swiftcast to apply their effects as soon as the button is pressed, with the animation continuing as normal beyond that. I don't see why they can't make this happen at least. The rest of the combat doesn't need it, but those 3 skills in particular DO need it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teslo
As for Firestarter and from personal experience, Thundercloud, i think allowing it to stack up to two times would fix the problem totally. (As long as I'm remembering the effect right, my BLM is 35 lol) -
12-31-2014, 04:26 PMTeslo
Thundercloud isn't quite as much of an issue. Usually I can snap that off before another one procs, though I've had several proc in a row before, which is always fun. (It can only proc once every 3 seconds, thanks to the 3 second ticks). Allowing Firestarter to stack up to 2 would solve ALL the problems. If you lose one due to another cast, you're doing it wrong and deserve to lose one. :P
I made a joke screenshot once with a button the center of my screen, 10x larger than the regular cast bar. It was just the Arcane Blast icon with the words "Press for DPS!" Got a bunch of laughs out of my guildies, especially the ones who played mage. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Sylve
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12-31-2014, 05:47 PMSylveReminds me of the one for Warlocks back in the day, Fear on half the hotkeys, Shadow bolt on the other half, with "roll face on keyboard to win" instructions* lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Teslo