Why did SE decide to make the three new classes not require base classes?

Is the game being "dumbed-down" a bit?

why would the the lack of base classes mean a dumb down?

Classes are pretty pointless anyway. Why not get rid of them?

Because Yoshi has expressed his intent to try and remove the classes from the game and just have job. Which I hope they do.

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Originally Posted by Makado

Because Yoshi has expressed his intent to try and remove the classes from the game and just have job. Which I hope they do.

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Are you being serious or joking?

I'd be more interested in removing the classes (not removing Jobs) and then just having one called...wait for it..."Adventurer". Boom, done, next please.

Classes don't serve any purpose other than lore, and this is why I don't see the current 9 classes being removed from the game. Just think about the White Mage questline for exemple, the adventurer is THE ONLY non-padjal allowed to learn the ways of white magic and was only chosen for that becuase of his great skill as a conjurer.

Combatwise, there is no difference in leveling a "class" from 1 to 30 and then a "job" from 31 to 50 and leveling a "job" from 1 to 50 so most likelly they will simply keep the current classes and don't create any new ones in the future, having only pure jobs from now on.

When was the last time you used a Class? It's not about dumbing down the game or making it easier. They provide absolutely no depth to horizontal progress. Classes provide absolutely no additional complex mechanics to this game. It's just fluff. They mean nothing. They do nothing, other than provide a bit of lore. Cross Class skills can easily be eradicated and just given to Jobs instead and be Cross Job Skills instead.

In fact, Classes make it harder to design completely unique jobs. For each job, you'd have to also create a base class as you can't use already existing ones. They'd only change 5 skills, (7 in the expansion). But 7 additional, different skills, doesn't make classes or jobs unique at all.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

When was the last time you used a Class? It's not about dumbing down the game or making it easier. They provide absolutely no depth to horizontal progress. Classes provide absolutely no additional complex mechanics to this game. It's just fluff. They mean nothing. They do nothing, other than provide a bit of lore. Cross Class skills can easily be eradicated and just given to Jobs instead and be Cross Job Skills instead.

In fact, Classes make it harder to design completely unique jobs. For each job, you'd have to also create a base class as you can't use already existing ones. They'd only change 5 skills, (7 in the expansion). But 7 additional, different skills, doesn't make classes or jobs unique at all.

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I guess I just love the lore, and would hate to see that stripped from the game.

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Originally Posted by Slick

I guess I just love the lore, and would hate to see that stripped from the game.

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current classes will stay in the agme.

Just future Jobs will not have classes.

Think of Current Classes/Jobs as the Starter Classes/Jobs (basic classes/jobs new players or new characters start out with) while the new Jobs that don't require classes as Advance Jobs (Jobs more accessed by players who have reached farther into the game).

Only class that have some kind of porpose is arcanist because they have 2 different job. Wonder are other classes gonna get more jobs in the future.

Is because they can't be bothered to make the base classes worth anything. In 11 people still had reasons to stay a WHM or aTHF even after openning up later jobs. Square didn't bother to make these classes worth anything post 30.

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Originally Posted by Shadex

Is because they can't be bothered to make the base classes worth anything. In 11 people still had reasons to stay a WHM or aTHF even after openning up later jobs. Square didn't bother to make these classes worth anything post 30.

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And that stinks.

Because base classes are extremely pointless. It only makes sense for Arcanist

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Originally Posted by Dervy

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Agree with this. One of my hugest hangups with the game is the fact that Classes and Cross Classes honestly offer no true benefit compared to a Job. Even forcing us to play another class to get the Cross Class skills is just tedious because they could have easily just GIVEN the skills to those Jobs just by simply leveling, especially when they are far weaker than the base job's version already(I honestly don't want to level to 34 just for Eye For An Eye on my WHM when it has such a huge CD that it would only be valuable when in Coil and maybe some HM and EX bosses.)

It honestly feels like Fake Longevity because on one hand, you need some of these skills anyway due to how valuable they are(Swiftcast) and they don't require you to be over halfway to 50 to get. Then there's others that require you to be at 30+ to get a skill that's either somewhat valuable(Invigorate, Quelling Strikes) or just barely so(Eye For an Eye) and then, there is still the fact that a good chunk of Cross Class skills for Jobs is nigh useless anyways so it's mainly worthless.
I honestly do hope that they remove the Cross Class requirements and just give us the skills in our leveling path when we hit their level to get.

Base classes are a relic from 1.0 that really don't need to exist. Looking at SMN/SCH it is impossible to play both jobs at full effectiveness due to them sharing attributes and the 2 jobs feel a lot a like in terms of gameplay because you have all of the same abilities aside from job abilities/pets.

I for one am very happy they've decided to move away from base classes since I like different jobs to be unique and don't want them to share attributes which it seems won't be changing any time soon.

If anything I would say that attaching multiple jobs to the same base class is more "dumbed down" than anything.

I don't necessarily mind the fact that they're getting rid of classes as the story for those jobs will now just be continuous rather than split into 1/2 Class 1/2 Job as it is now. However I am worried about what this means for the existing classes who are still bound by the system compared to their new counterparts.

You can't cross-class job abilities as it stands, none of them. You can only cross class "Class" abilities, so how will this work with the new jobs? Will they just be self contained and be unable to take or give anything from the existing classes? Or will they re-work this system entirely?

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Originally Posted by Prototype909

I don't necessarily mind the fact that they're getting rid of classes as the story for those jobs will now just be continuous rather than split into 1/2 Class 1/2 Job as it is now. However I am worried about what this means for the existing classes who are still bound by the system compared to their new counterparts.

You can't cross-class job abilities as it stands, none of them. You can only cross class "Class" abilities, so how will this work with the new jobs? Will they just be self contained and be unable to take or give anything from the existing classes? Or will they re-work this system entirely?

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Well with Jobs only allowed to Cross-skill 2 classes I'm guessing Machinist, Dark Knight, and Astrologian will only be allowed to cross-skill 2 classes as well.

They may keep current classes as the only class that can cross-skill all classes.

It is also possible that Machinist, Dark Knight, and Astrologian will not have any skills that can be shared with the other classes.

This would mean that GLA, PGL, LNC, ARC, ROG, CNJ, THM, and ACN will be the only classes to provide cross-skills which make them valued because if players and cross-skills they will need to level these classes.

So to keep players into playing these classes, SE may make GLA, PGL, LNC, ARC, ROG, CNJ, THM, and ACN the only classes to provide cross-skills.

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Originally Posted by Prototype909

I don't necessarily mind the fact that they're getting rid of classes as the story for those jobs will now just be continuous rather than split into 1/2 Class 1/2 Job as it is now. However I am worried about what this means for the existing classes who are still bound by the system compared to their new counterparts.

You can't cross-class job abilities as it stands, none of them. You can only cross class "Class" abilities, so how will this work with the new jobs? Will they just be self contained and be unable to take or give anything from the existing classes? Or will they re-work this system entirely?

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This is a very interesting question. I wonder if anyone here knows?

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Originally Posted by Shadex

Is because they can't be bothered to make the base classes worth anything. In 11 people still had reasons to stay a WHM or aTHF even after openning up later jobs. Square didn't bother to make these classes worth anything post 30.

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In XI the jobs you unlocked later werent advanced versions of what you already had, it was a different system. You were just unlocking the classes that came in later expansions.

Classes in XIV were the original from 1.0. When XIV first launched there wasn't much distinction between any of the classes aside from what weapon your character was holding. Jobs streamlined it a bit more, which sounds like it's being dumbed down but it was really just making each class/job more unique to itself. After jobs were introduced the plan was that classes would be for solo content and jobs for group, but aside from some very specific situations, there's no reason to play a class once you unlock it's job.

So now going forward, there's no reason not to just roll the class and job into one thing. This way you're not doing one small storyline from 1-30, then another 30-50 (or 60 in the case of the expansion), you can devote that entire level range to one storyline and theme. The classes we have wont disappear, then they'd have to remove their quests and likely expand on the existing job ones to pre-30, it's just what we get moving forwards.

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Originally Posted by Slick

I guess I just love the lore, and would hate to see that stripped from the game.

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I do not think they would ever strip the previous class stories from the game. They are far to important, and will likely be here to stay no matter what future jobs are added or if they redesigning the whole 'class' system.


As for the new jobs, if they follow the same '5 levels then a class quest' idea that they have had with the others, then we will still be getting the exact same number of class quests. Having a single job to concentrate on could be an interesting opportunity to expand its story and lore, rather then having 30 levels of class story, and 30 (Count the level rise in the expansion) of job stories.

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Originally Posted by Shadex

Is because they can't be bothered to make the base classes worth anything. In 11 people still had reasons to stay a WHM or aTHF even after openning up later jobs. Square didn't bother to make these classes worth anything post 30.

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You make a good point that classes basically become worthless after level 30. Although to be fair, in FF11 people still had a reason to play those jobs because they were still unique in their own right. In FF14 though, Jobs basically become an enhanced version of the class.

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Is the game being "dumbed-down" a bit?

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To be more accurate, the armoury system was dumbed down back in version 1.20-1.21. It just took the devs 2 years to fully understand their own doing and remove what had become useless.

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Now they better remove classes for every job, to keep things simple. Imagine describing the game system to a new player :
"There are 9 classes, and you get a job when they reach lvl 30, which is essentially the same as the class for most of them, and there is one class which gives two jobs, and you also have 3 jobs that start right at level 1 without class."
... when we could just have :
"There are 13 jobs."

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Originally Posted by Genz

To be more accurate, the armoury system was dumbed down back in version 1.20-1.21. It just took the devs 2 years to fully understand their own doing and remove what had become useless.

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Now they better remove classes for every job, to keep things simple. Imagine describing the game system to a new player :
"There are 9 classes, and you get a job when they reach lvl 30, which is essentially the same as the class for most of them, and there is one class which gives two jobs, and you also have 3 jobs that start right at level 1 without class."
... when we could just have :
"There are 13 jobs."

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The problem is with the way the plot/soul crystal stuff is explained I don't really see this happening - it'd be more work to rewrite those parts of the story to make sense than it would be to just leave it. They've already dug themselves into a hole and now they'll have to lay in it.

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Originally Posted by Slick

This is a very interesting question. I wonder if anyone here knows?

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Nobody here could possibly know this. lol Only the devs know the answers to these questions for sure, and they're not telling.

I suspect that we're seeing the start of the process to move away from classes entirely. If they don't spring a class/job change on us by the time the expansion comes out, we'll see it sometime around 3.4. I suspect we'll see it sooner rather than later, simply because the three new Jobs won't work well with the others under the current system. Much like Ninja is awkward with the fact that it can take cross-class skills, but doesn't share any of its own with other classes/jobs. If they keep going with that, every new Job will rely on the old cross-class skills from the old Classes, which will get boring really fast.

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Originally Posted by Prototype909

I don't necessarily mind the fact that they're getting rid of classes as the story for those jobs will now just be continuous rather than split into 1/2 Class 1/2 Job as it is now. However I am worried about what this means for the existing classes who are still bound by the system compared to their new counterparts.

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SE don't get rid of the classes. They just don't add new classes to the game. The old classes (also the DoL and DoH classes) will remain in the game.

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Originally Posted by Teslo

If they keep going with that, every new Job will rely on the old cross-class skills from the old Classes, which will get boring really fast.

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Problematically (Perhaps) this is already sort've guaranteed to be the case. For example every tank -needs- provoke, without it you can't even do tank swap mechanics in an efficient manner. So no matter what every tank has to either be able to cross class Gladiator or have an ability that does the exact same thing as provoke but with a different name.

There will always be a dependence on old abilities like this because SE wants every job to be plug in and play rather than offering a unique experience or advantage (At least, on paper), there's nothing fundamentally wrong with this as long as it's accepted that every job is going to be a Circle Shape going into a Circle Hole.

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Originally Posted by Prototype909

Problematically (Perhaps) this is already sort've guaranteed to be the case. For example every tank -needs- provoke, without it you can't even do tank swap mechanics in an efficient manner. So no matter what every tank has to either be able to cross class Gladiator or have an ability that does the exact same thing as provoke but with a different name.

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Yeah well, the ability to provoke is kind of a definition of the role of Tank isn't it? lol If you're going to have a trinity system game, you're going to need a provoke mechanic. Currently that's achieved by cross-classing provoke off Gladiator, but what they should really be doing is giving each tank it's own Provoke and allowing the cross-class abilities to be something more... Unique? I guess? I don't know, I absolutely hate the current cross-class system, so anything else that they do would be an improvement in my opinion. lol

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Originally Posted by Teslo

Much like Ninja is awkward with the fact that it can take cross-class skills, but doesn't share any of its own with other classes/jobs. If they keep going with that, every new Job will rely on the old cross-class skills from the old Classes, which will get boring really fast.

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The jobs with no classes can maybe not equip any cross-class skill, because no class will used as sub class. Also every skill of the new jobs would be 100% jobskills and therefore not equipable with other class/job.

Also new cross-class skills come with level cap raise (I hope). The old classes would still learn new skills and I really hope that they would be not all exclusive skills..

There's also the factor that leveling yet another can, at times, be boring as hell.

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Originally Posted by Shadex

Is because they can't be bothered to make the base classes worth anything. In 11 people still had reasons to stay a WHM or aTHF even after openning up later jobs. Square didn't bother to make these classes worth anything post 30.

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WHM and THF were jobs. We just didn't have to unlock them like advanced jobs. Classes in ff14 are equivalent to subjobs in ff11, in that they're a time sink.

I really hope they do ditch classes. They are leftovers from 1.0 and were something Tanaka made. Now they serve no purpose.

In 1.0, we used to bring THM to Ifrit, and could trio gold key bosses on classes. Now..after level 30, they are 100% useless. To change the lore would be easy, they'd just have to change some of the text. Meh.

AND PLEASE for the love of god..separate SCH and SMN. I do recall them saying they will finally do this, crossing fingers for it being the expansion!

Since classes are almost useless and a relic of 1.0 SE probably does want to ditch them. However they most likely don't want to go back and reprogram all the class quests and cross class system. It would be a much cleaner system if they removed classes altogether. But I think they are going the from here on out route that all new jobs do not have base classes and that is just the way its going to be.

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Originally Posted by KokoGigiyako

Classes don't serve any purpose other than lore, and this is why I don't see the current 9 classes being removed from the game. Just think about the White Mage questline for exemple, the adventurer is THE ONLY non-padjal allowed to learn the ways of white magic and was only chosen for that becuase of his great skill as a conjurer.

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Honestly, though, they could probably accomplish the same thing while merging WHM and CNJ. Start the game as a CNJ, progress to 30, have a quest that requires 30 CNJ 15 THM, completion of the quest changes you to WHM. Instead of having equipable soulstones, just have it be like any other storyline item that we carry in our not-part-of-the-inventory bag.

Though, it would do weird things to cross-class skills, now that I think of it.

I like the cross class skills. Gives a reason to try out other classes and it's a way to progress one's character. Getting rid of Jobs doesn't need to mean getting rid of cross class skills though.

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Originally Posted by Prototype909

I don't necessarily mind the fact that they're getting rid of classes as the story for those jobs will now just be continuous rather than split into 1/2 Class 1/2 Job as it is now. However I am worried about what this means for the existing classes who are still bound by the system compared to their new counterparts.

You can't cross-class job abilities as it stands, none of them. You can only cross class "Class" abilities, so how will this work with the new jobs? Will they just be self contained and be unable to take or give anything from the existing classes? Or will they re-work this system entirely?

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My guess is that the current classes will serve all the cross-class skill needs for future jobs. Except Thiefs. Thieving scumbacks who only take and give nothing in return.

I love classes!!! I understand the need to Dumb down the game for new players now. Cant have them leveing other classes to open other jobs now can we? Nope, Just BOOM!! you the Dark Knight now...how?? maybe..just cuss. Where's the LORE? I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Maybe the new jobs work like how the classes worked before the jobs came ingame 1.20 (but with limited cross-class skills). Only that they are called jobs instead of classes.

It would be nice if SE part away the classes from the jobs and change the classes into their own jobs. The amount of jobs would be double ^^
THM could be a DoT job again, CNJ something like RDM and so on.

It got dumbed down way back in 1.0 when the ability change update happened and even further when the job update happened. Classes were originally envisioned as a way for people to customize and create their own unique class, and presumably certain combinations of abilities would create a job, of course with the game so badly rushed as it was it never really exactly came to that.

With all that gone and everything railroading you into a single set of abilities, there's not reason to keep classes anymore aside from the obvious coding aspects. It's too late to go back now to introduce more customization, so might as well remove the classes altogether since no endgame content requires them, when even in 1.0 you could get away with certain classes in endgame, mostly THM for a situational but useful AoE Sanguine Rite.

I operated under the assumption that classes only apply to roles you can begin the game with, the moving to the new jobs became an option when you could swap after beating the level 10 quest.

I mean, crafting and gathering classes are already set up so that you walk in at level one and work straight to 50. If SE writes it that way, I can't see there being that much confusion.

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

I mean, crafting and gathering classes are already set up so that you walk in at level one and work straight to 50. If SE writes it that way, I can't see there being that much confusion.

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I've actually found several that imply a sizable gap in time between one quest and another.
Of course they also imply a time limit on some like the armorer quest.