Recipe Optimal Rank?

Can anyone tell me how to find out the optimal rank of any recipe? I have no idea when I'll be able to make a Bronze Gladius etc, or which recipes will help me level up. :confused:

Thanks

Vel

Use any of the online databases for the information. They are usually correct *most* of the time.
Yellow Gremlin - http://ffxiv.yg.com/
Allakazam - http://ffxiv.zam.com/

To calculate yourself...
http://forums.yg.com/showthread.php?t=1388

EXPGAINED = Ceiling( BASEEXP * (0.001 * QUALITYGAINED + 1) )
where EXPGAINED = what you see on screen
QUALITYGAINED = Self-explanatory
Ceiling = Round up to nearest whole number

Relative Recipe Rank/Base EXP table

Code:

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-21        -20        -19        -18        -17        -16        -15        -14        -13        -12        -11        -10        -9        -8        -7        -6        -5        -4        -3        -2        -1        0        1        2        3        4        5        6        7        8        9        10
0        0        0        15        20        25        30        40        50        75        100        125        175        225        275        325        375        400        425        450        475        500        600        700        800        900        1000        1100        1200        1300        1400        1500

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E.g. A recipe of the same rank will give you 500 base exp.

Optimal rank depends on your crafting stats, possesion of any required training skills as well as rank difference.
So, it's not that easy to say when something is 'optimal'.
For an ungeared crafter you have to be within 3 ranks of the craft, and at/above the crafting rank if the craft has a training skill you do not have.

As for crafting ranks, if i remember it correctly each rank a particular craft is above your own adds 100 exp, with either 500 or 400 being what youd get if the recipe was the same rank as your class.

Edit: nevermind didnt see the relative part of the chart. xd

For the most part, you'll just find the optimal rank on recipe database sites, like Zam, Eorzeopedia, yg, or mooglebox.com. Then you'll make your choices grinding recipes depending on what mats you have in stock, or what mats you think you can get easily/cheaply.

For an in-depth look at why optimal ranks are deemed for recipes, you can look at this yg thread.

Edit: Woops, like Aeyis, I now see that Tymora beat me to the post.

Someone should make a calculator tool for this xD An app for phone maybe? ^^

Thanks everyone for replies. Exactly what I needed:D

/edit

Gulp... Bronze Gladius is HARD to make! Is this right? I need leatherworker r4, goldsmith r11, blacksmith r20!, and armorer r11. By the time I make this I don't know if a rank 6 sword will be any use :(. Why is the bronze gladius recipe blacksmith r6 when you need to be blacksmith r20 to make one of the components? :confused:

Perhaps I'm looking at this the wrong way. Should I be keeping all my crafting ranks 10 or so above my gladiator rank? Is crafting targeted at high level/endgame players? Will I need to just buy gear for my current level (10)? At what levels should you actually think about upgrading gear?

Although I feel I've hit a lot of obstacles in the game, this isn't intended as a rant. Despite feeling really confused about things like this, I'd love to get the hang of this game because i'm curious to see what it can eventually offer, and the designs just blow me away! Also, I find solving the puzzles of this game becomes an obsession in itself, lol, and it's interesting to part part of the game as it develops and changes with players!

I'll be really grateful for any additional pointers,

See you in game,

Vel

Will be a bit harder to figure out the recipe rank once physical levels are gone!

SE should just show the recipe rank. They already show mob rank . . .

Edit:
Its worth noting that the SP gain is ON AVERAGE half the XP gain. So if you are doing a recipe thats the same rank as you, you'll on average get 250sp a synth. That being said, there seems to be a +/-50SP variability that is completely random.

It really would help if SE showed the rank! It just feels like cheating to me when I have to check the net, although in this game it seems to be essential to do so!

And don't forget there's a bit of randomness in the SP rewards. I tried doing 2 cotton turbans last night, one gave me 500, the other 700.

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Originally Posted by Velo_Vandore

Gulp... Bronze Gladius is HARD to make! Is this right? I need leatherworker r4, goldsmith r11, blacksmith r20!, and armorer r11. By the time I make this I don't know if a rank 6 sword will be any use :(. Why is the bronze gladius recipe blacksmith r6 when you need to be blacksmith r20 to make one of the components? :confused:

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Not exactly.

To make the bronze gladius from the materials, you need to be a level 6 blacksmith.

To make all the component parts from scratch, you need to have all those ranks you listed. But if you don't have all those ranks, you can just buy the parts you can't make from the Market Wards, or have another crafter make them for you. At least that was the idea when SE designed it. It would encourage people to rely on others to make stuff, thereby encouraging cooperation and stimulating the economy.

Recipes are going to be changed very soon. Materials and recipes will be simplified, which I suspect is going to mean making lower level recipes possible for lower level crafters.

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Perhaps I'm looking at this the wrong way. Should I be keeping all my crafting ranks 10 or so above my gladiator rank? Is crafting targeted at high level/endgame players? Will I need to just buy gear for my current level (10)? At what levels should you actually think about upgrading gear?

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Totally up to you. My crafting levels lag behind my DoW/M levels by quite a bit. I'm generally trying to level everything to at least 40, so I can repair all my own gear. But you should probably do whatever's fun for you. :)

Crafting is definitely easiest for higher level players. But that doesn't mean there are no helpful -- or profitable -- recipes lower level players can do.

As for whether to buy or craft gear at your level, I found it easiest to just buy gear. But someone has to make it. :) And I understand that lower level gear is often pretty expensive or difficult to find in the Market Wards right now.

The good news is that at your rank, you don't have to worry too much about wearing the best gear. You can now get lots of gear from leves. And keep in mind that -- while you don't get the full benefit of all stats if you're under the gear's Optimal Rank -- the difference for gear scales, meaning that you won't be in too bad of shape if you wear gear above your Optimal Rank. (However, there's a huge difference when we're talking about Weapons and Tools. You generally want to stick to weapons and tools that are at or below your Optimal Rank.)

Here's what I do:

Some gear is suitable for all classes. For example, you can buy a Cotton Tunic (r11 shirt), Cotton Slops (r16 pants), Dodoskin Wristguards (r13 hands), and Dodoskin Shoes (r13 shoes). You can wear those while leveling all your low level jobs. That way, you don't have to worry about switching your gear every time you switch to a new class, and you won't have to have a full set of gear for every class you run.

That gear will generally upgrade about every 10 levels. So you can start looking for new gear as you approach 10 levels above that.

I wouldn't worry too much about getting the best possible gear until you get to end-game, or otherwise decide that you're going to focus on one class. When you start running the Darkhold at rank 45, you might want to start worrying about having Gladiator-dedicated gear. But until then, you're mostly going to be focused on leveling, so you can look at the stuff as leveling gear.

On the other hand, I'd try to keep your weapon upgraded. While you don't generally need to upgrade every possible time (for example, daggers vs. swords are just different types of weapons, and not necessarily an upgrade), you'll be surprised how much a new weapon or tool helps. Just be sure that you're generally using a weapon or tool that's at or below your Optimal Rank.

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Although I feel I've hit a lot of obstacles in the game, this isn't intended as a rant. Despite feeling really confused about things like this, I'd love to get the hang of this game because i'm curious to see what it can eventually offer, and the designs just blow me away! Also, I find solving the puzzles of this game becomes an obsession in itself, lol, and it's interesting to part part of the game as it develops and changes with players!

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Glad to hear you're having fun. I think the depth of FFXIV is one of the good things about it. It's got a steep learning curve, but the fact that it's difficult to figure out is one of the things I like about it.

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask. :)

Thanks VdarrTyr for the thorough response. :D I really appreciate that you've taken time to shed some light on this topic for me. It's a relief to know that players are not generally crafting all of their own gear while leveling. Although I've been avoiding the Market Wards (I know it will take me some time to learn what sells for what, and to save/make gil), this option seems favorable to agonizing over recipes, especially at level 10, and I'll definitely give the Wards a try as you've recommended. Buying certain components in the wards is also an appealing idea, as I can then still dabble with some recipes myself, so again, thanks for suggesting.

I really like the idea of using non-class specific gear while leveling, because I'm also interested in leveling the other classes. Thanks also for pointing out some specific examples of gear for my current level (a big help!).

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And keep in mind that -- while you don't get the full benefit of all stats if you're under the gear's Optimal Rank -- the difference for gear scales, meaning that you won't be in too bad of shape if you wear gear above your Optimal Rank. (However, there's a huge difference when we're talking about Weapons and Tools. You generally want to stick to weapons and tools that are at or below your Optimal Rank.)

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Would you mind explaining a little more about wearing gear above current rank, while keepin weapon/tool on or below current rank. I can understand the idea behind equipping slightly higher gear, so I can work towards it and upgrade less often. However, when you say to equip a weapon/tool at same rank or lower, but not higher, wouldn't the low rank weapon/tool also lose effectiveness? Is it that stats are cut more dramatically 5 levels higher than 5 levels lower? I certainly value your advise and will avoid buying higher ranked weapons/tools, but I'm curious to understand why I'm doing that.

Thanks again :),

Vel

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Originally Posted by Velo_Vandore

Thanks VdarrTyr for the thorough response. :D

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Happy to help. And really glad you're enjoying the game.

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Buying certain components in the wards is also an appealing idea, as I can then still dabble with some recipes myself, so again, thanks for suggesting.

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This might be pretty obvious, but if you're interested in crafting, I'd suggest starting with local leves. You get the materials for free, and you can get some experience with the crafting system. In fact, I've gotten the vast majority of my own crafting levels simply by doing crafting leves.

And just like you can equip (almost) any battle ability on any battle class, you can equip (almost) any crafting ability on any crafting class. So, for example, at Leatherworking level 10, you get the ability Fulfillment. Once you've earned that ability, you can equip that ability on every crafting class, making crafting for every other class easier.

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Would you mind explaining a little more about wearing gear above current rank, while keepin weapon/tool on or below current rank. I can understand the idea behind equipping slightly higher gear, so I can work towards it and upgrade less often. However, when you say to equip a weapon/tool at same rank or lower, but not higher, wouldn't the low rank weapon/tool also lose effectiveness? Is it that stats are cut more dramatically 5 levels higher than 5 levels lower? I certainly value your advise and will avoid buying higher ranked weapons/tools, but I'm curious to understand why I'm doing that.

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Sorry if I've been unclear.

1) Every piece of gear, weapons, and tools has an "Optimal Rank" and a class affinity. Here's an example: Canvas Dalmatica. If you click on that link, you'll see that the shirt has an "Optimal Rank" (which now appears to say "Required Rank") of level 23. It also says that this shirt "Favors: GLA PGL CON THM TAN WVR MIN."

If you are below the Required/Optimal Rank, or you are wearing the shirt while playing a class not on the "Favored" list, then two things will happen.

First, you won't get the full benefit of the stats listed. In other words, the shirt will give you less Defense, Magic Defense, Evasion, etc. You also won't get the full HP +23, Dex +3, and Magic Craftmanship +5. So if you wear that shirt while playing Marauder, you're not going to get all of the stats (I haven't tested it, but I understand that you lose about 1/3rd of the stats if you're playing off-class). Or if you equip it at rank 20, you're not going to get the full benefit of the stats.

Second, the shirt's durability will degrade faster. That means it's going to wear down more quickly, requiring you to stop playing and repair it more often, which will cost more money.

So it's generally a good idea to use gear/weapons/tools with an Optimal Rank at or below your rank.

2) The more out of whack your rank and class are from the shirt's rank and affinity, the bigger the nerf, and the quicker you get damaged. So if you're a level 1 Conjurer wearing rank 50 armor built for a Gladiator, you're not going to get much benefit from the gear, and the gear is going to get damaged very quickly.

3) The nerf you get for wearing gear above your rank is smaller than the nerf you get for using weapons/tools above your rank. Specifically, if you equip gear that's above your rank, the nerf won't be too terrible, and in some cases, you might even have equal or higher stats.

That's not true for weapons/tools. If you're even one rank below the Optimal Rank for weapons/tools, you'll lose 20-30% of the stats offered by that weapon/tool. If you're farther away, you'll lose even more than that. And the gear is going to degrade significantly faster. As a result, you're almost always better off using weapons/tools at or below your level.

The difference is because of the different size of nerf. You get nerfed much harder with weapons/tools than with gear.

There's an easy way to test it. Simply open your main menu, and click on "Gear." Then equip a weapon below your level, and check your stats (Attack, Accuracy, etc., are listed to the left in the Gear menu). Then click on a weapon above your level, and check your stats. Compare and contrast. (You can do the same for any two pieces of gear.)

I don't mean to imply that it's a good thing to wear gear that's above your level. But money can be hard to come by when you first start playing. Those of us who've been at level 50 for a while forget how difficult it was to afford new weapons when we were first starting out. So if you're looking to save some money, you can get away with buying gear less often. It's much more important to buy weapons/tools that are rank-appropriate.

Now, don't go crazy and buy level 50 gear, and think it's going to be fine as a level 20 Gladiator. I have a friend who -- at level 25 -- used end-game Gladiator gear/weapons. it drove me batty. He couldn't hit anything, when he did hit he didn't do much damage, and he spent millions in repairs. (Literally, millions. He couldn't repair his own gear, repair costs were higher then, and he had to get repairs at least once per day.) So I'm not suggesting that you absolutely should equip gear above your rank and grow into it. I'm just suggesting that you should concentrate more on having level appropriate weapons. If you're going to save money, it's better to save money on gear.

And I apologize for not mentioning this before, but you should think about joining a linkshell. In my opinion, the in-game community in FFXIV is great. It's also a great way to get hand-me-down gear and weapons, so you don't have to buy them. Other players can also help you craft gear, and can help by repairing your gear, which also saves you money. And they can help get you over the game's steep learning curve. And perhaps most importantly, things are just more fun if you've got other people to do them with.

Let me know if you've got any more questions. And have fun!

Vydarr Tyr, another great response. I have a much clearer understanding of your advice now, and also will definitely look to join a linkshell.

Your great responses and selfless assistance has highlighted for me that difficulty and challenges in this game encourage a friendly and supportive community, if nothing else. I'll try to follow your example and help people out as well when I can.

Thanks again!

Vel :)