is there some rule against using goad?

well mantra too i guess. ninjas and monks act like mantra and goad will give them an std if they use it. why? D:

Maybe Square should let us see ally TP and maybe these issues will go away. Hint hint nudge nudge Square.

i've been hoping and praying they would give us a tp bar already. really no point in not having one. especially when you can use 3rd party programs to get one

When a Ninja is focused on keeping 2 DoTs up, TA up, Huton up, and possibly Dancing Edge while also not screwing up their rotation, then they may not be prioritizing Goad, especially since they have no TP visibility.

Another thing is that sometimes the NIN does use it at random due to lack of TP visibility, but then the tank asks for it when it's on cooldown and then doesn't understand why they didn't get it.

If you need it, ask for it. Communication is the best way to make Goad effective. Otherwise, you'll probably just get it when you get it, but don't expect it to be your TP savior all the time. Goad is a luxury ability - content can be completed without it, it just makes some situations a little more comfortable.

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Originally Posted by Darkstride

When a Ninja is focused on keeping 2 DoTs up, TA up, Huton up, and possibly Dancing Edge while also not screwing up their rotation, then they may not be prioritizing Goad, especially since they have no TP visibility.

Another thing is that sometimes the NIN does use it at random due to lack of TP visibility, but then the tank asks for it when it's on cooldown and then doesn't understand why they didn't get it.

If you need it, ask for it. Communication is the best way to make Goad effective. Otherwise, you'll probably just get it when you get it, but don't expect it to be your TP savior all the time. Goad is a luxury ability - content can be completed without it, it just makes some situations a little more comfortable.

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oh i've asked, i've seen tanks ask, hell i've even seen other ninjas ask lol. also when you're doing a speed run of a dungeon and you see a bard using his aoe's to clear out mobs you know they're going to make full use of goad. not saying i don't ask but some times i shouldn't have to. same goes for mantra. i've been in ramuh groups where a monk mantra could have saved us and yet the monk either doesn't use it or will use it when people are at 60% or so and nothing major is happening :l

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Originally Posted by lxChrisxl

oh i've asked, i've seen tanks ask, hell i've even seen other ninjas ask lol. also when you're doing a speed run of a dungeon and you see a bard using his aoe's to clear out mobs you know they're going to make full use of goad. not saying i don't ask but some times i shouldn't have to. same goes for mantra. i've been in ramuh groups where a monk mantra could have saved us and yet the monk either doesn't use it or will use it when people are at 60% or so and nothing major is happening :l

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This is just a case of someone having really bad situational awareness and trying to look flashy by using a skill they have access to and know is useful in some sort of a situation. As a Monk I've always made sure to put up mantra before big AOE damage is going to go out. Or when I'm on my Ninja I'm sure to always give it to a TP user when we are AOE pulling.

Mantra honestly took a long time for me to get into the habit of using because it was just sort of there; it wasn't important to me Doing The Deeps or really directly relevant to my personal survival. So you just kinda... forget it's there sometimes.

Goad? Ninjas don't know if you lack TP if you don't tell 'em, 'cause the game doesn't display your TP bars. Sadly.

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Originally Posted by Garlyle

Mantra honestly took a long time for me to get into the habit of using because it was just sort of there; it wasn't important to me Doing The Deeps or really directly relevant to my personal survival. So you just kinda... forget it's there sometimes.

Goad? Ninjas don't know if you lack TP if you don't tell 'em, 'cause the game doesn't display your TP bars. Sadly.

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I got into the habit of Mantra relatively quick back when I started T5. Twintania's Fireballs really did some serious damage to the party, and because of that I started using Mantra everytime it was up whenever that dragon targeted somebody in my particular 'group' for the fireballs. After that I started using it as a 'panic button' for when I feel the healer needs some extra oomph for their healing spells on the tanks, or whenever I see something big coming in primals or just bosses in general.

Goad however, I admit I still don't know when to use, but that's because as you said we do not have a TP bar that would allow us to see who needs it.

for goad i can tell you how to get a tp bar if you're on pc and willing. if not just go by what your tp is at if you have invigorate. if you're getting pretty low just assume your teammate is getting low as well since you can't always get that spare second to type goad

On my Monk, I use Mantra. Maybe not all the time, but I use it :)

As for Goad, I just got it myself, and realized I can't see anyone's TP bar. So, if they don't ask, I can't give it to them, or I can guess, but then I could be wasting it for when someone does need it. Best to just use it when someone asks.

Goad - I have a priority system. If I have a WAR tank, and he/she is MT, they get the goad. Usually about halfway through trash pulls, on bosses I give it a little ways into the fight. If I have a PLD tank, Goad goes to MNK > BRD/DRG > fellow NIN. I usually pop it when boss is down to 60ish% or on trash pulls about 10 secs in if it's up.

I do announce at the start who I will be goading, and that it might be random. After a goad or two I'll ask if it's working for them, if not I'll adjust.

Mantra, well, it's only 5% but I still use it, like, a lot. AoE pulls, bosses, ST etc.

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Originally Posted by Korilynn

On my Monk, I use Mantra. Maybe not all the time, but I use it :)

As for Goad, I just got it myself, and realized I can't see anyone's TP bar. So, if they don't ask, I can't give it to them, or I can guess, but then I could be wasting it for when someone does need it. Best to just use it when someone asks.

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Not really. :) Goad slowly restores tp, it's not an instant refresh like invigorate. If you would see tp bars and use it once you see someone get's short on tp, it's almost too late. Goad is more about preventing to even get too low, or to prevent someone from having to use invigorate, so it's more about 'knowing' when to use it rather than 'seeing' it.
In raids this is relatively easy, since most groups have a set rotation for goad (i.e. first one goes to the monk 30 seconds into the fight, second one goes to bard as soon as it's up again), though this is not as effective anymore since nin tp nerfs (bard has to play paeon anyway)...
For other stuff like dungeons, i just give it to the tank whenever it's up, especially if it's a war.

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Originally Posted by Lilyarel

Maybe Square should let us see ally TP and maybe these issues will go away. Hint hint nudge nudge Square.

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I heard they're already at the limits concerning the HUD UI. Cause the PS3 couldn't handle more stuff on screen already.

Also it's not only Ninjas not using Goad (which is single target and requires some reactivity and/or mouseover macro to be optimal I guess) but Bards as well, despite not obligatory doing the highest dps, don't use Paeon when asked to LOL

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Originally Posted by MrCookTM

Not really. :) Goad slowly restores tp, it's not an instant refresh like invigorate. If you would see tp bars and use it once you see someone get's short on tp, it's almost too late. Goad is more about preventing to even get too low, or to prevent someone from having to use invigorate, so it's more about 'knowing' when to use it rather than 'seeing' it.

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This.

Tp issues in dungeons usually dont arise on bosses so you dont need to goad there but your primary concern are big trash pulls where everyone is AOE'ing.
Also giving goad to them when they are already out of tp means its too late, since the tp refresh of goad is too small to counter the high tp costs of AOE's, its rather meant to slow down the act of actually running out, which means you can sort of give goad very early into the pull.

TL,DR: Give goad when there is a big trash pull to one of these guys: MNK/NIN/BRD/DRG/WAR

Also minor gripe since i have seen it being done by a lot of NINs, PLDs dont need goad for AOE since they use MP for flash. Give it to the other dps instead.

If in duty with a Warrior and during big pulls and such i take it upon myself to use goad oh them.
Same situation while raiding, usually dragoon in our FC asks me for goad.
Mantra i usually use if we take on big hits and such.
I am actually thinking of making a macro for goad during raids and such as it takes me time on PS4 to select person that wants goad and applying it and also being on my 2nd crossbar

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Originally Posted by ChaozK

Also minor gripe since i have seen it being done by a lot of NINs, PLDs dont need goad for AOE since they use MP for flash. Give it to the other dps instead.

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So very very true, it is just so sad the amount of Paladins that get mad if you do not use Goad on them even for little pulls, it's like really

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Originally Posted by MrCookTM

Not really. :) Goad slowly restores tp, it's not an instant refresh like invigorate. If you would see tp bars and use it once you see someone get's short on tp, it's almost too late. Goad is more about preventing to even get too low, or to prevent someone from having to use invigorate, so it's more about 'knowing' when to use it rather than 'seeing' it.

For other stuff like dungeons, i just give it to the tank whenever it's up, especially if it's a war.

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I didn't realize it was a refresher, and not a instant boost like Invigorate. However, I did start just giving it to the WAR/MDR tanks, as I recall with my MDR Overpower could drain me, so I did make them a priority with it.

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Originally Posted by Maero

...I am actually thinking of making a macro for goad during raids and such as it takes me time on PS4 to select person that wants goad and applying it and also being on my 2nd crossbar...

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Good idea. I have two macro's for goad, one for War tank, and another if I have no WAR tank for the DPS.

Macro 1 (WAR tank)
/micon "goad"
/ac "goad" <tt>
/p ** {Goad} - {Just used it!} >> <tt>

The above macro will goad your tank. They should be your target's target. Nice and easy.

Macro 2 (PLD tank, goading a DPS)
/micon "goad"
/ac "goad" <#>
/p ** {Goad} - {Just used it!} >> <#>

This second one has two ways it can be used. The # represents the party member you will be goading, before duty or raid starts you can edit your macro to reflect their position (1,3,7, etc.). You said you are on PS4 so that might not be too efficient. The other way to do it is to just use <t>. With this though you will have to select the target before activating the macro. I do not play on the PS4 so I am not sure which would be easier.

I place the macro's right next to each other with the tank one first, since the WAR has priority.

Just thought I would share.

^ nice thanks for posting your macro :)
Will make it much easier i think on PS4

Now that we have FCoB where mantra helps a ton, I use Mantra pretty much on cooldown. I also have my NIN using mantra on me whenever it's up.

I use Goad all the time. Who gets it depends on what's going on. A lot of melee AOE then I give it to DPS. Otherwise I mostly give it to a Tank.

People still dont use goad? Guys, ninja nerfs dont make goad useless.

You dont need to see that your bard or your monk is low, either. did you invigorate, or are about to? Goad someone. Almost ALL dps invigorate around the same time, and a few of them like DRG, have a hard time surviving until the second invigorate, Goad helps them last until that invig + the next goad. ETc.

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Originally Posted by Odowla

People still dont use goad? Guys, ninja nerfs dont make goad useless.

You dont need to see that your bard or your monk is low, either. did you invigorate, or are about to? Goad someone. Almost ALL dps invigorate around the same time, and a few of them like DRG, have a hard time surviving until the second invigorate, Goad helps them last until that invig + the next goad. ETc.

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Goad is only useful to a WAR during dungeon speed runs. What's the point of goading another dps in primal/raid content when the ninja will run out of TP just as fast as them anyway and still need Peon?

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Originally Posted by Pots_Talos

Goad is only useful to a WAR during dungeon speed runs. What's the point of goading another dps in primal/raid content when the ninja will run out of TP just as fast as them anyway and still need Peon?

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Yes, lets skip over the fact that goading a monk is a 4% increase to the monks damage alone. You're going to get TP song anyways, Doesnt mean you can't use it.
You're gonna tell me you dont gain any damage from Goad, and I counter with Fracture. It lets a monk use fracture and sustain using it for most of the fight.

Be a team player. You have a EAT Weapon; you at the least should understand working as a team is important in a raid. There's no reason NOT to goad, other than a selfish reason of "but I need TP song anyways, so you need it to, therefore no goad". Its a FREE off GCD skill that literally costs you nothing. The fights in t10-t12 are VERY long fights, many of which have no breaks. (please, the small little break in t12 and t11 don't count). If Goad costed you a small amount of TP regen, I would see the argument - but as it stands you have nothing to lose from using Goad. At all. OH NO THE MONK HAS MORE TP, SHIT WE DONT GET A SONG. Nope, the Bard still needs it, he'll play it for himself, you, the tanks, AND the monk - EVEN if you didnt goad. The difference is the monk now gets to do more damage, for longer - and if for some reason you need a ballad, or you're in a double mage composition (like I am, at the moment) - the person you goad will be able to last longer. Don't be afraid to ask your bard to paeon, if you're going as HAM as you want. Goad doesnt change a damn thing about asking your Bard to Paeon.

There are rules against us using Goad and Mantra, yes. We're sworn to never tell anyone what those rules are, they may kill me for even letting you know they exist.

Trust no one.