Savage SCoB difficulty compared to FCoB?

What is more difficult? Final Coil seem tame though I've barely dabbled in T13.

Savage is still harder in i130 than FCoB in i130.

I can't find written guides regarding savage versions of turns 8 and 9, but would love to try savage mode even if the current ilvl cap allows us to push through those turns a little better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Antanias

I can't find written guides regarding savage versions of turns 8 and 9, but would love to try savage mode even if the current ilvl cap allows us to push through those turns a little better.

---

there few youtube clip about some fc is fighting them and what it looks very similar

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Antanias

I can't find written guides regarding savage versions of turns 8 and 9, but would love to try savage mode even if the current ilvl cap allows us to push through those turns a little better.

---

iirc, T8 is all about more adds HP and randomized towers (maybe not the order but at least their positions)

T9 had more meteors, more HP on adds, some stuff like that.

but talking to people who cleared it, T9 is relatively easy compared to T8 or T7 (Savage only :p)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kuwagami

iirc, T8 is all about more adds HP and randomized towers (maybe not the order but at least their positions)
...

---

Savage T8 has a new tower (Max HP Down), randomizes tower positions, spawns up to 5 land mines at a time, has Allagan Field from the start and (in later phases) uses it on 2 people at a time, and has generally increased damage. The adds also insta-kill people if they get too close to the boss. The fight is all about timing bomb tower detonations and protecting people who have allagan field, since it's much more sensitive to damage IIRC. Overall, Savage 8 is the most different fight of all the savages from its normal version. It's also my favorite fight, and is really intense and fun since everyone gets to get involved.

Savage T9 has a very similar first half to its original version, with the exception that Raven's Ascent makes the tank more vulnerable to damage and forces a tank switch. The golem phase drops like 8 meteors at a time, forcing everyone to feed multiples and dealing a lot of damage. Heavensfall phase is much longer, and the pattern in which the thermionic pulses on the ground come is reversed. Additionally, meteors will drop on random targets and deal a bunch of damage if you're too close to the impact site. The last phase pretty much just adds meteors to a few parts (just run them to the wall) and forces tank switches by adding a Ravensbeak onto the end of his Bahamut's Claws. He also uses Super Nova during dive bombs, iirc. I disliked Savage 9 because the first half is very similar to the regular fight, just longer. The last half can wipe your party very fast, so it ends up being a 6 minute slog to wipe in a few seconds over and over.

The basic design philosophy for all the savage second coil fights seemed to be to counter "cheese" strats like superslug, mark moves, single tank 8, four renauds, single tank 9, etc. It's pretty neat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brannigan

The basic design philosophy for all the savage second coil fights seemed to be to counter "cheese" strats like superslug, mark moves, single tank 8, four renauds, single tank 9, etc. It's pretty neat.

---

Coming back on that.

You kinda reverse how it truly is, as the Savage mode is just the untouched fight as the devs first programmed it. Rather, the "chees" strats were made possible by the nerf of many if not all mechanics to make them doable by the good players.


@OP

after talking to a few friends about your question, most of them confirmed that Savage is harder than Final Coil. I know one who was in the top 50 groups clearing T13, and yet his group still has to beat T7 savage ^^

(they got T9 & T8 savage 2 weeks after their first T13 kill, having some free time in their raiding week)

So no way to know which tower is which as long as two towers don't go off at the same time? Me likey lol.

Towers for each set is fixed, they just spawn anywhere. You tell towers apart based on what they look like.

General changes for all turns:

- Everything has more HP
- Everything hits harder
- Can't solotank

Turn 6:

- Devour is 360 degrees
- Blight from the start
- Bulbs tether with other bulbs and boss if close enough to each other, reducing damage taken by an insane amount. You must move the boss away from the bulbs, center tanking no longer works
- Bloody Caress is used throughout the fight
- You can't do the superslug, the slug instantly AoEs the group as it eats a honey, 3 honeys is obviously too much. You must kill them one by one. The debuff enrage is 4, 6 and 8 stacks, depending on how many slugs are alive.
- Swarm works completely differently. It targets a random non-MT and places 4 stacks on that player. Each stack applies a stack on the player that increases damage taken from each consecutive Swarm stack. At no stacks, it does little damage, at 1 stack, it does around 5,000-6,000, at 2, it will kill any non-tank, 3 can't be survived (and no, Holmgang/Hallowed Ground don't work). This works like Allagan Rot/Chain of Purgatory, you must spread the stacks to 3 other players. For the next round, the other 4 player need to take the hit, but due to RNG, it is possible you are forced to take the 1 stack hit. Swarm targets players with least stacks.

Turn 7:
- Two Renauds spawn at once and they cannot be petrified a second time. They also move faster.
- Petrifaction starts at 85%
- Venomous Tail starts at 85% and grows in power throughout the fight. After last add, it applies 4 Allagan Venoms.
- When second adds spawn, Cursed Voice applies on four targets, one tank, one dd and both healers.
- After Prosector dies, you have two Shrieks at once

Turn 8:
- Towers spawn at random locations, you can see what tower it is by looking at the symbol in the semi-circle. The spawn order itself never changes.
- Dread tethers with the boss if it gets too close (=wipe)
- Allagan Field starts at 85% and in last phase is used on two players (3s timer difference)
- New tower, Maximum HP down, it can stack
- 3 mines start, 4 mines mid-fight, 5 mines last phase
- Ballistic Missile knocks players away from each other before Binding players
- Homing Missile hits twice

Turn 9:
- Raven's Blight leaves a Vulnerability Up debuff, forcing a tank swap
- Double Meteor Stream has a shorter delay between hits
- 8 comets fall between adds, first two drop almost at the same time, preventing the running method
- Heavensfall AoE rotation is reversed, the first one is the circling one
- 2 comets fall on random targets during Heavensfall, they have no color and disappear after impact
- Ravensbeak is used in last phase, right after Claw
- Thunderstruck is applied on two targets
- 2 comets fall during Divebombs
- Supernovas are used during even dives
- Megaflare after every rotation

And that should be it. T7 and T8 savage modes are still called the hardest fights in the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Coming back on that.

You kinda reverse how it truly is, as the Savage mode is just the untouched fight as the devs first programmed it. Rather, the "chees" strats were made possible by the nerf of many if not all mechanics to make them doable by the good players.

---

That was what was said in an interview, but I don't really think that's the case. Maybe the original fight concepts were closer to Savage, but they almost certainly added some mechanics due to how players actually engaged with the original second coil fights. There's a lot of reasons I thought this while I was doing savage, but the ones that really stand out to me are the 360 degree devour in savage 6, the adds being buffed by the boss in savage 8, and the vulnerability up debuff in savage 9. The numbers were also tuned for full i110 players with High Allagan weapons, so at the very least they touched those up. If only because of that, I don't think the savage versions of the fight as we know them now ever existed before 2.3 (or whenever they were patched in).

Quote:

---

- Swarm works completely differently. It targets a random non-MT and places 4 stacks on that player. Each stack applies a stack on the player that increases damage taken from each consecutive Swarm stack. At no stacks, it does little damage, at 1 stack, it does around 5,000-6,000, at 2, it will kill any non-tank, 3 can't be survived (and no, Holmgang/Hallowed Ground don't work). This works like Allagan Rot/Chain of Purgatory, you must spread the stacks to 3 other players. For the next round, the other 4 player need to take the hit, but due to RNG, it is possible you are forced to take the 1 stack hit. Swarm targets players with least stacks.

---

Oh yeah, I forgot about this. This is a lot cooler than regular swarm. You can actually use Cover to eat terminal stings in an emergency. Pretty sure I had to do that for our clear to prevent a healer from getting double stacked.

Most of the changes are quite clearly original untuned stuff, but it is obvious some counters were added. The 360 degree Devour could be an original mechanic, but is most likely a counter, the tethering bulbs is most likely a counter. Ravensbeak debuff is an obvious counter. The inability to repetrify the Renauds actually seems to be an original mechanic, the buff they get (Petrification Resistance) when hit by voice was added in 2.2, not 2.3. T8 add enrage when too close to boss looks like a counter to me.

T7 savage I think hasn't been cleared on Odin last time I checked( even with the massively inflated ilvl we have now ), so I assume it's by far the hardest crap in-game. While there are plenty ppl with t6 title, a few with t8 and 9 title, I never see people with t7 title.