Thoughts on the Loot System

I would like to get everyones thoughts on the Loot system, and how you would feel about a system like this;

SE should go the route of Gear tokens.

Gear Tokens just like the ones in Snowcloak, Sastasha and Sunken Temple, except mod them a tad.

The gear tokens will share a few classes like;

PLD/WAR/DRK
SCH/WHM/AST
BLM/SNM/BRD/MCH
MNK/DRG/NIN

Now these are just examples of the Job Groups, but this way loot will not be wasted as much, and it will still have the RNG factor if say your Healers alrdy have the Helm, and the healer Helm token keeps dropping.

So now no more Drg stuff dropping when no1 is a Drg Main.

Where as nothing will be wasted, and it's on the group to decide the path to gear everyone up.

*Edit*
Well Like some of you have stated what I have proposed is basically the same as it is know, but I am looking Forward to the future of FFXIV. but at the same time worried when more classes get released and we still have the same system we have now.

Imagine this.


WAR Warrior
SAM Samurai
RDM Red Mage

NIN Ninja
DRG Dragoon
MNK Monk
BST Beast Master

WHM White Mage
BLM Black Mage
SMN Summoner

SCH Scholar
AST Astrologian
PLD Paladin

BRD Bard
MCH Machinist
RNG Ranger
DRK Dark Knight

All these Classes Have been released and now you are raiding; for 5 weeks in a row you have been getting nothing but Rdm, Mch, Sam, Ast, and Drg gear. All the while no one in the raid is any of those classes.

Once more and more classes release they will need to Implement some kind of Token System.

Now what I mean by Token System is this.
You will notice I have grouped the classes into 3s or 4s.

When you kill a Boss in the raid say he drops an item called "Ancient Striker's Garb" *Chest Piece Token*, and it says Ninja, Dragoon, Monk, Beast Master. Those also being the only classes that can roll Need on the item.
You then take it to the Vendor and Turn the item in for either Nin, Drg, Mnk, or Bst Chest Piece. it would reduce the number of wasted loot drops, but at the same time keep that RNG Factor and slowed rate of gearing out your raid group.

not a bad idea at all. tough in all honesty ANYTHING is better than current lootsystem. with even more jobs coming in the future the loottables get so big its totally useless to even try your luck with RNG + lockout. it just is overkill. either RNG or lockout. not both.

RNG in this game is so bad... What kind of RNG is this once it decided to give Caster loots assigned to your group, the majority of loots will be of Caster. Meanwhile, the same also happens to other groups...This RNG NEED TO BE CHANGED.

...Maybe?

I honestly don't mind RNG in drops. But I'd at least like to see the loot system changed to only potentially drop loot for classes actually being played. Hell, make it proportional - if there's two WAR, a WHM, a SCH, and four MNK? 1/4 chance of a WAR drop, 1/8 chance of a WHM drop, 1/8 chance of a SCH drop, 1/2 chance of a MNK drop.

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Originally Posted by Garlyle

...Maybe?

I honestly don't mind RNG in drops. But I'd at least like to see the loot system changed to only potentially drop loot for classes actually being played. Hell, make it proportional - if there's two WAR, a WHM, a SCH, and four MNK? 1/4 chance of a WAR drop, 1/8 chance of a WHM drop, 1/8 chance of a SCH drop, 1/2 chance of a MNK drop.

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You know people would complain then because they want loot for a class they're currently not playing and it won't drop unless they play it.

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Originally Posted by Valmar

...
The gear tokens will share a few classes like;

PLD/WAR/DRK
SCH/WHM/AST
BLM/SNM/BRD/MCH
MNK/DRG/NIN
....

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Maybe just suggest mnk/drg and brd/nin share the same sets... ^^;
If it is a "Gear Tokens just like the ones in Snowcloak, Sastasha and Sunken Temple",
then there should be no job restriction, everyone should be able to NEED everything for every runs happily.

Seeing as half your list already exists I don't see why anyone would have a problem with it.

This is something the WoW devs came up with and it works very well. In the early vanilla WoW days, gear dropped just like it does in FFXIV and it was a pretty bad time. They rolled out the gear token system in TBC and while it's still possible to get screwed by RNG somewhat, it's no where near as bad as individual gear pieces for one class dropping over and over again.

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Originally Posted by Garlyle

...Maybe?

I honestly don't mind RNG in drops. But I'd at least like to see the loot system changed to only potentially drop loot for classes actually being played. Hell, make it proportional - if there's two WAR, a WHM, a SCH, and four MNK? 1/4 chance of a WAR drop, 1/8 chance of a WHM drop, 1/8 chance of a SCH drop, 1/2 chance of a MNK drop.

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^This

And to add to that, crafting mats should be in random chests that currently litter the dungeons, NOT in actual Loot chests... yesterday really pissed me off in snowcloak. Almost every friggin chest dropped Emery. I'm not exaggerating either. First boss dropped Star Anise, the next boss dropped more crafting mats and the boss with a double chest dropped two friggin Emeries!!! Then Finally Fenrir dropped an actual gear piece. That was the sadist snowcloak run ever...

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

You know people would complain then because they want loot for a class they're currently not playing and it won't drop unless they play it.

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Then they should play the class if they want the gear... Simple as that.

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

everyone should be able to NEED everything for every runs happily.

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No. Just No...

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Originally Posted by Deculture

This is something the WoW devs came up with and it works very well. In the early vanilla WoW days, gear dropped just like it does in FFXIV and it was a pretty bad time. They rolled out the gear token system in TBC and while it's still possible to get screwed by RNG somewhat, it's no where near as bad as individual gear pieces for one class dropping over and over again.

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not just vanilla , BC, lich all had random drops. Funny enough since they moved to less random systems, they have lost subs..... because like it or not random interval rewards work better.

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Originally Posted by Staris

not just vanilla , BC, lich all had random drops. Funny enough since they moved to less random systems, they have lost subs..... because like it or not random interval rewards work better.

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TBC and WoTLK had a token system in place for tier sets. WoTLK was the pinnacle of this system and it was by far their highest sub time period. Cataclysm lost them a lot of subs but the main cause of that was dungeon difficulty/accessibility.

Anyways, I digress - FFXIV should look into doing something similar. Because nobody likes getting one specific drop for weeks on end and this problem is only going to get worse as more jobs are added.

Something I'm confused about: You suggest loot tokens can only be exchanged for loot in its group. So far so good. But what's the difference between getting a tank token and the specific piece of gear directly? Same goes with healer.

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Originally Posted by Amelia_Pond_Behemoth

Something I'm confused about: You suggest loot tokens can only be exchanged for loot in its group. So far so good. But what's the difference between getting a tank token and the specific piece of gear directly? Same goes with healer.

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There is none, the only change the OP seems to be suggesting is removing the 4 exclusive sets of melee dps and bards so they all have to share with more than one job just like tanks, healers and casters.

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Originally Posted by Zedd702

Then they should play the class if they want the gear... Simple as that.

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I'm sure the dps will enjoy their extended waiting times.

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Originally Posted by Windklinge

not a bad idea at all. tough in all honesty ANYTHING is better than current lootsystem. with even more jobs coming in the future the loottables get so big its totally useless to even try your luck with RNG + lockout. it just is overkill. either RNG or lockout. not both.

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Lol can u imagine how bad itd be once SE adds more jobs in.
* post drk, mch, ast
I'd assume a lot of ppl would give up raiding as gearing up would be too mind numbing as you are at the mercy of the evergrowing rng loot table.
More jobs = more probabilities of ur loot not dropping! Awww yeah

Anything is better than this

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Originally Posted by Tyrn

I'm sure the dps will enjoy their extended waiting times.

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TBH, that's squares fault for making a game with 3 times as many DPS than there are tanks and healers, not the fault of certain future RNG mechanics that need to be addressed, like this one. I play all classes and have to deal with extended queue times as well when I play DPS, not my problem.

I'm actually tired of this excuse. If a person mostly DPS' and want weapons, gear, or accessories to be handed to them in other classes they rarely play, that's the fault of the player. Play the class. It's really simple.

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Originally Posted by Pots_Talos

While I agree raid loot should be changed somehow, I don't think SE should do tokens. Token system is the most boring and unexciting loot system ever invented, I'd rather we keep the system the way it is now than have tokens.

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Guess I'll just quote myself from another of these threads.

I don't like tokens either but I do like the idea of changing loot to drop with current RNG factors that ONLY include the classes currently in play.

I've run ST over 30 times this week alone, and only a single piece of gear dropped that I needed. I have never seen the dragoon boots drop. I understand that maybe some people don't have OCD and can wear mismatched armor sets without thinking twice about it, but... really? 30 times for a single item? A friend of mine had to do it 83 times before he got his monk helmet.

How about for every twenty runs we do, we can pick a single piece of gear for any class and just be given it? This is really playing havoc with my mental disorder.

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Originally Posted by Zedd702

TBH, that's squares fault for making a game with 3 times as many DPS than there are tanks and healers, not the fault of certain future RNG mechanics that need to be addressed, like this one.

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No, this is so wrong! There could be 10 Tank Jobs and 1 Dps Job and 90% of the playerbase would play that 1 Dps Job. Most of the People just want to smash the Mobs in the face and not getting smashed by it! This nowhere near SE´s fault

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Originally Posted by Raolin

I've run ST over 30 times this week alone, and only a single piece of gear dropped that I needed. I have never seen the dragoon boots drop. I understand that maybe some people don't have OCD and can wear mismatched armor sets without thinking twice about it, but... really? 30 times for a single item? A friend of mine had to do it 83 times before he got his monk helmet.

How about for every twenty runs we do, we can pick a single piece of gear for any class and just be given it? This is really playing havoc with my mental disorder.

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And he counted the 83 runs right? I do believe you that it took a lot of runs but pls stop throwing out random numbers

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Originally Posted by Deculture

TBC and WoTLK had a token system in place for tier sets. WoTLK was the pinnacle of this system and it was by far their highest sub time period. Cataclysm lost them a lot of subs but the main cause of that was dungeon difficulty/accessibility.

Anyways, I digress - FFXIV should look into doing something similar. Because nobody likes getting one specific drop for weeks on end and this problem is only going to get worse as more jobs are added.

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Yeah my orange weapon came from a token?
no it was a mix of drops and tokens for BIS
same as this damn game

They don't do this because people would gear out too quickly in raiding. If not for RNG people would completely gear out within a month and a half.

How about the really simple one. Everyone that is at the chest gets something.

Personally, i would like taking it a bit farther, Everyone at the chest gets to pick something. If you already have the gear you want, a crafting item is available.

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Originally Posted by Echoloc

How about the really simple one. Everyone that is at the chest gets something.

Personally, i would like taking it a bit farther, Everyone at the chest gets to pick something. If you already have the gear you want, a crafting item is available.

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And people would stop raiding within a month every patch cycle. That's the reason for the RNG. So people don't burn through the repeating of content they make in less than a month. Even if you beat FCOB in a week you still have to do it for months to fully gear out.

if the reason you are raiding is to just get the gear, yep i would agree with you. but people are going to stop the raid or at least rage at it in that same time-frame because of the 1500 useless pieces that drop anyway.

as stated, there are crafting items available... that can lead to other things, therefore extending your raid life.

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Originally Posted by Echoloc

if the reason you are raiding is to just get the gear, yep i would agree with you. but people are going to stop the raid or at least rage at it in that same time-frame because of the 1500 useless pieces that drop anyway.

as stated, there are crafting items available... that can lead to other things, therefore extending your raid life.

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If not for the gear wouldn't everybody stop when they achieved beating it once?

some people play to beat the boss faster/in some weird way. others to do it as a different role. others to help other people beat it their first time. yet more people like to play just to play with no carrot at the end except spending time with their friends.

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Originally Posted by Staris

Yeah my orange weapon came from a token?
no it was a mix of drops and tokens for BIS
same as this damn game

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TIL legendary items which is typically 1-2 per expansion cycle is totally the same as tier sets and normal raid drops.

Even legendaries have shifted towards a non RNG system that started with WoTLK healer staff and Shadowmourn.

Geat tokens would work well. Imo, they should work for all 24 men raids and Coil, or all endgame content except the 4 men dungoens. Furthermore, i would make it class gear token.

Let's say you want to gear up your PLD in ST. Well, you need to show up in ST with your PLD. You can't use your DRG to get tokens in ST and use it to gear your PLD. Same would go for Coil floors.

That will solve 2 problems : 1. PEople would have as much chance to get their items as others. No more tough luck. 2. when you will see a godly geared player you will know he is good doing this job, unless he got carried all the events he had to go trough. That would make players be more proud of the work they do... self-acheivement.

I have met a i-114 MNK and he was terrible.. so i asked "dude, how come you got low DPS? ".. his answer "sry.. i barely use MNK.. it's more a toy class for me.. i never use it." I would say 2 runs would be enough to get 1 item.

Tokens would be ok, but with a limit. You could never have more then 2 at a time and you'd have to use them or lose them. The WHOLE point and design of this game is to "KEEP you PAYING to play it". Making Full sets of gear too easy to get and not having to wait would destroy/ruin the whole system of the game. After 1 or 2 months everyone would be left nothing to do and no one to do stuff with. So why would any NEW players buy this game?? " I'm siding wih Noahlimits on this". Just wait

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Originally Posted by Electrowitch

No, this is so wrong! There could be 10 Tank Jobs and 1 Dps Job and 90% of the playerbase would play that 1 Dps Job. Most of the People just want to smash the Mobs in the face and not getting smashed by it! This nowhere near SE´s fault

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No it's not wrong! I like tanking and healing, but refuse to be stuck playing a level 50 healer or tank all the way til the next one is released. I know PLENTY of others on my server with the same exact concern.

Are there people that prefer to play BLM/NIN/Whatever else only no matter what? Sure. But I can bet you if there were a good balance of tank/healers to DPS then the queues would be alot smoother/better.

It is SE's fault for that.

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Originally Posted by Echoloc

some people play to beat the boss faster/in some weird way. others to do it as a different role. others to help other people beat it their first time. yet more people like to play just to play with no carrot at the end except spending time with their friends.

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If not for a reward (in the instance of coil, gear or title), I would simply beat it once for the difficulty factor and unsub until the next content patch. The minority of the playerbase do the latest raid. A fraction of that minority are the people you describe in the quoted text.

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Originally Posted by Noahlimits

They don't do this because people would gear out too quickly in raiding. If not for RNG people would completely gear out within a month and a half.

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Exactly. I don't get why people think RNGesus is ever going to go away, there is no real benefit for them to speed up gear progression unless a new raid is on the horizon. There is already a token initiative with upgradable poetics.

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Originally Posted by Noahlimits

If not for a reward (in the instance of coil, gear or title), I would simply beat it once for the difficulty factor and unsub until the next content patch. The minority of the playerbase do the latest raid. A fraction of that minority are the people you describe in the quoted text.

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And what of the bigger fraction that don't do coils, but rather the other dungeons & trials?

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Originally Posted by technole

Exactly. I don't get why people think RNGesus is ever going to go away, there is no real benefit for them to speed up gear progression unless a new raid is on the horizon. There is already a token initiative with upgradable poetics.

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I'm honestly lost with this answer. I don't get the impression that anyone in this thread has a thought that RNG will be done away with. I get the impression of a discussion and suggestion thread to make the current system better...

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Originally Posted by Zedd702

And what of the bigger fraction that don't do coils, but rather the other dungeons & trials?

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It's the same thing. The reward at the end of the dungeon is poetics. If you're doing it for regular drops, the latest dungeons already have tokens. If you didn't get a reward for beating dungeons, the majority of people would do them once/twice and never again. At least, every person I know. I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying people would run dungeons repeatedly for zero rewards? I really find that hard to believe. The whole point my quoted post was making is that people wouldn't continuously do content if they didn't get anything out of it. They'd do it once or twice for novelty, and that'd be it.

I know I'd personally just unsub till new content came out after beating it once or twice. They aren't challenging and grow exceeding boring after the second or third time completing. That's why people speed run, it just becomes tedious to do brainless dungeons. But given the option between a "harder" dungeon over an easier one for the same rewards, people will do the boring easy once since it'll be faster.

I'm already pretty bored even with the new end game raids since once you beat them once, they're basically on farm if your group is competent. People on my server even pug t13 frequently at this point. :\

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Originally Posted by Noahlimits

It's the same thing. The reward at the end of the dungeon is poetics. If you're doing it for regular drops, the latest dungeons already have tokens. If you didn't get a reward for beating dungeons, the majority of people would do them once/twice and never again. At least, every person I know. I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying people would run dungeons repeatedly for zero rewards? I really find that hard to believe. The whole point my quoted post was making is that people wouldn't continuously do content if they didn't get anything out of it. They'd do it once or twice for novelty, and that'd be it.

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Nope, not what I was saying. Was just asking for clarification basically and you given that to me in this post. So I thank you for that.