Monk: Dropping ToD?

So in T10 I came to the conclusion to not use ToD when necessary to ensure I have enough TP to sustain myself and keep the DPS going. I figured it was either no ToD[which drops me by 18 DPS, i think], no TP or no DPS/Mp for Foe that our Bard can use.

Did I make the right choice? I feel like I did fine without it. I'm still ripping hate off our PLD tank during T10 ads[and he has Nexus, i115]


And no, I don't use Fracture either, or my FC buddy would have to slap me.



Also my Skill Speed is 378.

(Not a Monk expert)

But I've seen monks wreck the dps charts keeping ToD and Fracture up. If you are concern about TP issues, Ninja is your friend.

It basically depends on what the rest of your group composition is. As I recall, ToD is the first thing to go (after Fracture, if it was ever there) when you start running into TP issues. But if you have a NIN and BRD, Goad and Paeon should keep you afloat and able to ToD without worry.

Got a bard? He can sing for you, you won't need that much. 20 sec will get you to your next invigorate. If he really can't (requiem/ballad), drop ToD yeh.

Ripping hate on the adds? Don't think it has anything to do with your dps. More with the fact you either attack one straight away and he's trying go keep both or you just attack the wrong one. Tab dotting helps you to not pull hate and it's a tiny bit more dps which is always nice.

I see the usefulness of that strategy when under 150 TP

ToD contributes very little in terms of DPS increase for its TP cost, similar to Fracture. It's not bad--just expensive.

For this reason, it's better to use it conservatively or when it outmodes any other option on the table. i.e.: losing optimal position due to mechanics or enmity shift. Dealing 280 potency on a GCD when you would only otherwise put out 140 on a missed MNK positional is a good deal, and it gives you time to get into the proper position for that combo.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

ToD contributes very little in terms of DPS increase for its TP cost, similar to Fracture. It's not bad--just expensive.

For this reason, it's better to use it conservatively or when it outmodes any other option on the table. i.e.: losing optimal position due to mechanics or enmity shift. Dealing 280 potency on a GCD when you would only otherwise put out 140 on a missed MNK positional is a good deal, and it gives you time to get into the proper position for that combo.

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Hmm fair enough. I'll use it when I can.

Yes, you melees should really try lowering the pressure on bards, and let them do more dmg.
The only time I sing Paeon will be when myself run out of TP and Invigorate is on CD!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RoseM

Yes, you melees should really try lowering the pressure on bards, and let them do more dmg.
The only time I sing Paeon will be when myself run out of TP and Invigorate is on CD!

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that's a terrible mindset

you have utility skills, so use them

a monk running dry is far more of a dps drop than what a bard loses for singing for 10-20 seconds, not to mention the benefit is received by tanks and whatnot as well

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Originally Posted by ryuuken

that's a terrible mindset

you have utility skills, so use them

a monk running dry is far more of a dps drop than what a bard loses for singing for 10-20 seconds, not to mention the benefit is received by tanks and whatnot as well

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Hey Kenji. Long time no see. Hope you're enjoying the change of scenery. :D

For sure utility should be used, but it depends on the fight and party config when it comes to what the best option is. Always letting your melee starve on any fight with any config is clearly pretty questionable. But if a MNK is going to be low on TP for 15s and no one else is in need of TP then well.. Might be better spent on Foe's in my experience and looking at raid DPS from past weeks/months. I suppose it becomes harder to measure exactly with gear changes and performance from each player and RNG varying each week.

Even if Paeon is a slight DPS loss for your group's config might you use it to keep everyone in your group happy and enjoying their raid time? Sure. Especially when content is on farm. DPS checks aren't very harsh at all once the group is geared. At that point who really cares? I've just been trying different things every week for fun.

2 weeks ago with starved NIN t11 he actually came out around 10 DPS higher than when I fed him a whole bar of MP for Paeon last week for no real reason other than comparison. Surely using Foe's instead of Paeon doesn't fully account for the NIN being higher while spending several seconds starved. RNG I guess. And our MNK gets Goad so the difference between those weeks wasn't really anything noteworthy. Going forward I'll just switch between the standard 800-100 MP for Paeon in t10-t11 (which I used to use in high uptime fights with double MNK/DRG configs) and zero Paeon and compare a bit more, I guess. May as well. I would suspect the results being pretty close with our MNK, NIN, BRD, BLM config. Results may vary with other configurations. And we've found Paeon to not really need to be a thing in both t12 and t13 with our setup.

And yes, the BRD DPS loss with Paeon can be minimized especially if timed well. There is still a bit of a drop but it doesn't have to be a huge one if timed for 20-30s of Paeon while all buffs are on CD. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aikaal

(Not a Monk expert)

But I've seen monks wreck the dps charts keeping ToD and Fracture up. If you are concern about TP issues, Ninja is your friend.

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Yep, its all about knowing how long you can go.

only cut out ToD in a few instances;

1: you died without invigorate being up
2: You are at 200 TP with invigorate not ready for ~20 seconds
3: The DoT won't tick for 15 seconds (so like adds, etc)

QUOTE RinchanNau
2 weeks ago with starved NIN t11 he actually came out around 10 DPS higher than when I fed him a whole bar of MP for Paeon last week for no real reason other than comparison. Surely using Foe's instead of Paeon doesn't fully account for the NIN being higher while spending several seconds starved. RNG I guess. And our MNK gets Goad so the difference between those weeks wasn't really anything noteworthy. Going forward I'll just switch between the standard 800-100 MP for Paeon in t10-t11 (which I used to use in high uptime fights with double MNK/DRG configs) and zero Paeon and compare a bit more, I guess. May as well. I would suspect the results being pretty close with our MNK, NIN, BRD, BLM config. Results may vary with other configurations. And we've found Paeon to not really need to be a thing in both t12 and t13 with our setup. [END Quote]


Hmm, I think the mind set that he is talking about is something like "Oh meleeS are low on TP while mine is still good, who cares i'll sing it once i get low on TP" then yea I too think that's a bad mentally as a bard.But I think if a MNK is extremely low on TP but NIN is still mid ranged then it should be the MNK fault for not managing his TP well. And also im not sure about the situation the NIN is in but if that 15sec can make a mnk lose his stacks and yea. The dps lost is gonna be high