My idea (or rehash) of a new healer role: Chemist>Red Mage

(Edit: Increasing obvious that people wouldn't be behind this as RDM. So, I'm going to go with Machinist)

New Class 2: The Chemist (healer)

Yup the chemist from Tactics. I saw a post about this on a different gaming outlet and thought idea would be cool. Basically the chemist focused on single target cures, buffs, and debuffs. The chemist can cure any status, can heal mp, and can cast the "potion of X (de)buff" on a player or target. For authenticity sake, the chemist is required to have the potion they want to use to cast for a skill (skills require the potion). There can, however, be new potions types such as "panacea" and maybe more that serve the function of being a dummy potion that can be used by the skill.
However, the additional effect of casting a skill with the real potion can be a more potent effect (giving players and incentive to use the real thing). Phoenix downs would need to be put in the game and are chemist usable only. Would let chemist rez the fastest in the game (but the rez won't restore much hp). Chemist use guns (rifle) which supplement their "throwing" of potions at teammates/enemies. They will be a ranged support (healer).


New Job 2 Machinist (CHM/don't know what other would go with it): Functions similarly to the chemist but gains the ability to cast supportive potions on the entire party at a reduced affect as well as the same for debuffs (at some point... or in typical FFXIV fashion, just gets the +II version). Gains an ability to dose their gun with potion to fire debuffing rounds (magical rounds).

Stat focus for both: Dex/Int or Piety. All skills for the CHM/MCH cost mp. Int will increase magical bullet dmg (unless it was collectively agreed that no one would want a gun to fire magical dmg-in which case, INT wouldn't be necessary). Dex is for the normal bullet ACC and dmg similar to ARH. Not sure if they will wear caster armor or and medium DoW armor. Probably whatever the BRD wears.

I think CHM/MCH would fit nicely in the dmg. This healer role isn't about DoTs or the occasional AoE nuke. They can be more supportive in the buffs they use, and due to the speedy nature of their "throw" abilities and no requirement to enter a stance, they can put out steady dmg and debuff. I haven't played all of the class/jobs yet, but I feel there is room for a class of this nature.

What do you guys think?

Well, there's generally two issues with this line of thought:
First would be that a chemist would be physical and "item reliant". With Item reliant I wouldn't been being bound to healing supplies, but rather than their healing comes in forms of items - Potion Pitching if you want to call it. Red Mage, on the other hand, is magic reliant, as the name implies, and to an extend physical based. The class concept of Red Mage and Chemist would clash and create a class that would be magic based as well as physics based (pharmacy).
Secondly would be the the weapon affinity of the classes according to the design patterns. Common weapons for chemists (or alchemists) in the Final Fantasy series would be a gun, mace or dagger. Red Mages, on the other hand would have affinity towards fencing swords, such as rapiers, sabers and degens. They also have some affinity towards daggers. While they have a common weapon affinity, the rogue class already claims the dagger weapon in Final Fantasy XIV. As long the armory system stands, no other class can use daggers unless Square-Enix introduces a seperate category for daggers, like how they did that with the initial daggers for Gladiators.

In other topics, the possibility that gunners will become chemists later has been discussed. I don't think this will happen personally, but that's for another discussion :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

First would be that a chemist would be physical and "item reliant". With Item reliant I wouldn't been being bound to healing supplies, but rather than their healing comes in forms of items - Potion Pitching if you want to call it. Red Mage, on the other hand, is magic reliant, as the name implies, and to an extend physical based. The class concept of Red Mage and Chemist would clash and create a class that would be magic based as well as physics based (pharmacy).

---

cough cough FFseries characters tend to use both magic and physical attacks including the BLU mage, DRK in FFXI, palidan... cough cough

Plus, I did say the RDM can get access to magic bullets, which if people are truly hung up on RDM having bullets... or the job named RDM that isn't focused on magic, then we can simply change the name. Btw, it's called "throw" in FF speek. Characters that "toss" items at others have the skills "throw". Ninjas tend to sport the skill.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

Secondly would be the the weapon affinity of the classes according to the design patterns. Common weapons for chemists (or alchemists) in the Final Fantasy series would be a gun, mace or dagger. Red Mages, on the other hand would have affinity towards fencing swords, such as rapiers, sabers and degens. They also have some affinity towards daggers. While they have a common weapon affinity, the rogue class already claims the dagger weapon in Final Fantasy XIV. As long the armory system stands, no other class can use daggers unless Square-Enix introduces a seperate category for daggers, like how they did that with the initial daggers for Gladiators.

---

Doesn't mean SE can't mix it up (Bards using bows.... thieves dual wielding innately... all class using only one weapon type). Sounds like you are hung up on the lore of Red Mage, which I suppose is fine, but that's not to say RDM couldn't be evolved. I'm sure if I called the job: Physicists, you wouldn't have any concerns.

Who knows, maybe the CHM/RDM could use the Rapier/gun combo. Talk about sweet and piratey. ARRRRRRRRRRRRGH!

While I love the idea of a chemist, I can't get behind the job being Redmage. If anything I would think maybe Machinist like Mustadio from FFT would be a good Job class upgrade.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pots_Talos

While I love the idea of a chemist, I can't get behind the job being Redmage. If anything I would think maybe Machinist like Mustadio from FFT would be a good Job class upgrade.

---

That's a better name for it. I hope SE makes it RDM just to shake everyone's boots up. But I doubt RDM would happen as I've proposed. CHM seems like a cool idea. It's something haven't seen in an mmo (though pot spamming has existed since the dawn of time).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DawgPilez

cough cough FFseries characters tend to use both magic and physical attacks including the BLU mage, DRK in FFXI, palidan... cough cough

Plus, I did say the RDM can get access to magic bullets, which if people are truly hung up on RDM having bullets... or the job named RDM that isn't focused on magic, then we can simply change the name. Btw, it's called "throw" in FF speek. Characters that "toss" items at others have the skills "throw". Ninjas tend to sport the skill.

---

For starters, you're not reading what I typed about how Chemist and Red Mage would clash. Secondly, if they'd have magic bullets, they'd be classified as Corsair or Gun Mage, rather than Red Mage. Red Mage wouldn't be Red Mage either without it's magic. A class that would be remotely similar to Red mage, but not as magic oriented, would be (Rune) Fencer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DawgPilez

Doesn't mean SE can't mix it up (Bards using bows.... thieves dual wielding innately... all class using only one weapon type). Sounds like you are hung up on the lore of Red Mage, which I suppose is fine, but that's not to say RDM couldn't be evolved. I'm sure if I called the job: Physicists, you wouldn't have any concerns.

Who knows, maybe the CHM/RDM could use the Rapier/gun combo. Talk about sweet and piratey. ARRRRRRRRRRRRGH!

---

Rapier/gun combo would lean more towards a corsair, which in this case magic bullets would make sense

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DawgPilez

snip

---

There is a difference between being both a Physical and Magical based job, and being a Physical based job turning into a Magical Job.

Bards using bows isn't something completely new (Edward can use a bow). Thieves using two knives innately is barely a change from the FF lore, considering that there is no "Dual-Wielding" trait, thus they have two daggers. And All classes using one weapon type isn't that much of a change from previous FF's, most characters only use one weapon type in most FFs, most classes only really want to use one weapon type by the end, and in Tactics most Jobs can only use one weapon type.

Also "Throw" is throwing offensive tems (shurikens) and Weapons, not potions. So no, this isn't the same as the "Throw" Skill.

You are suggesting something completely out of no where, and barely anyone would enjoy this rendition of a "Red Mage". Red Mages are Sword-Mages that use Black and White Magic. They always do this. Always. They aren't going to change that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VanilleFang

You are suggesting something completely out of no where, and barely anyone would enjoy this rendition of a "Red Mage". Red Mages are Sword-Mages that use Black and White Magic. They always do this. Always. They aren't going to change that.

---

Well I hope not at least! Melee (supportive) healer would be a really interesting concept

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

Well I hope not at least! Melee (supportive) healer would be a really interesting concept

---

Yeah. I agree. It's just that a Red Mage is like Black and White Mages. They have a certain formula to them. I would love a melee healer, and a Red Mage would be an interesting take on it, I just don't know how they would be able to call it a Red Mage if it didn't have access to a wide variety of offensive abilities as well. That's only my thoughts on it though.

Thought, again, FFXIV isn't really sticking to the strict formulas of the past. Take White Mage for example. Aero and Stone? That's completely out of character for them. So I wouldn't really be against a Red Mage being supportive, I suppose, it would just seem really weird I guess.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VanilleFang

Yeah. I agree. It's just that a Red Mage is like Black and White Mages. They have a certain formula to them. I would love a melee healer, and a Red Mage would be an interesting take on it, I just don't know how they would be able to call it a Red Mage if it didn't have access to a wide variety of offensive abilities as well. That's only my thoughts on it though.

Thought, again, FFXIV isn't really sticking to the strict formulas of the past. Take White Mage for example. Aero and Stone? That's completely out of character for them. So I wouldn't really be against a Red Mage being supportive, I suppose, it would just seem really weird I guess.

---

I figured I'd let you calm down before I posted again. I'm not sure if you've played FFT, but "Throw item" also the job ability of Chemists where they throw healing items. Typically, throw is an offensive attack, but in the form of Chemist, as I used it, it was for healing items. However, to be able to throw curables and offensive items, I figured to lump it altogether as throw. Here's a link for you http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Throw_Items.

I wouldn't hastily assume "barely anyone would enjoy this rendition of a "Red Mage", but I'm sure you stated that in frustration (at)/with my post on daring to switch up the game. I did update the post a while ago regarding the issue. Machinist seems to fit the lore. I think this class/job would be very interesting offering a different spin on healing and ranged combat. Might give a reason to use potions (I'm not the best player, but I've never found a need to use any potion beyond ether as CNJ so far).

They're still technically two different kind of throws, though. One is a chemist version that only allows you to throw supportive items. While the Ninja's version only allows them to throw weapons (equipables included). It's even named differently: "Throw Items" and "Throw".

And there's still a clash among those two classes:
Chemist's healing come in form of potions. This may or may not limit them to healing, but to buffing or debuffing as well - Silencing potions for example.
Red Mage's healing, buffing and debuffing both come from the form magic. As opposed to the chemist's "physical" variant (physical as in, touchable)

If a chemist would to branch out into a Red Mage, this would mean the following:
A part what would identify a Chemist as "Chemist" is to be replaced or isn't there in the first place.
A part what would identify a Red Mage as "Red Mage" is to be replaced or isn't there in the first place.

You could propose that a red mage's healing come in form of potions. But in this case, a Red mage is not a red mage because it lost a part of it's white magic identity.
You could also propose that a red mage's healing come in form of potions AND have buffing spells, which could be considered white magic. But then chemist's lose a bit of their identity as they're healing through potions, but curing ailments through magic.
Or perhaps a chemist that has debuffing ability? Why don't they have a concoction for that in the first place?
A Red Mage that throws potion? That doesn't quite identify it as a "mage" either. A Red Mage with simply sword enhancing spells would identify as a Rune Knight or Rune Fencer, not a Red Mage.

There are simply too many conflicts and holes in the Chemist -> Red Mage line of thought, regardless of how SE will "evolve" the classes for this game. The very nature of both classes/jobs are the polar opposites: You could say it's science vs faith! It's more likely that a Musketeer will become a Chemist later - Which has been discussed in various topics before. In this case, I hope the Musketeer class will become a corsair, rather than chemist.

Seems futile for me to argue "throw" lumping. I guess it's like I proposed a class that used "magic" which was both black and white magicks....

I'm not even arguing with you guys... I get it... even changed the title (though idk if it will update on the thread page).

But yay for a different type role that uses guns and revives an old class of yore.

Honestly, I shudder at the thoughts of "potion" healers, or "scienctific" healers. I would be much MUCH more interested in damage dealing healers, like what Rift had in the Chloromancer. They were essentially great Party healers with okay single target healing. I'd like to see that more, where they do a certain damaging skill, or DOT, and a % of it goes to party healing, or a spammable skill that will do the full or more than full effect in healing a single target. Or another skill that takes a dot on a target and channels its damage into healing on the target instead.

As far as i Know the red mage Class is divided in 2 types.

1 a melee oriented mage

2 a mage with some Black and White spells but not at max of theyr Level. Its an hybrid it has both healing and offensive powers but not full maxed.

I like the idea of chronomancer but....will the game be balanced. I repeat in this game the basic party is formed of 4 players. 2 dps 1 tank. 1 heal. Now this chronomancer is half dps and half heal. Now wich role it Will be? If u put it in the healers well it cant heal very well since its not a FULL HEALER. Viceversa if u put it in the dps it Will be unbalanced since u got 1 healer and half and 1 dps and half. It Will be Too easy, maybe just slower a lil to dps but still easy and not challenging in a normal dungeon....

At least this js my thinking about

With machinist coming out and a different type of healer, Chemist can be a thought to float around maybe the next expansion. I doubt SE will release 2 gunning classes. This brand of Machinist collides with Chemist and Astrologian is nothing like either.