Can't believe there still are such trash about...?

Qarn Hard starts. Tank goes and pulls the first mob, then runs ahead to the second one and pulls all that as well. A minute later, he drops dead, party wipes, after which he just says "Nice healer... Bye all." - and proceeds not to leave, of course, but just to sit at the dungeon entrance. All that without any communication, save for an auto-translated hello when we got in.

I don't know which is more infuriating: the fact that such people still exist; or the fact that some in the party deem it ok to initiate a vote dismiss and to vote yes to it as well; or the fact that those vote-kicked still receive no penalty whatsoever. Because the same guy just re-queued instantly, ofc with in-progress as well because he got back in to us like 3 times before the other DPS got fed up and left too, followed by the healer.

I'd urge everyone encountering such ×××××××s not to initiate a vote dismiss, not to vote yes if one's initiated, not to even try to get ahead in the dungeon. Seriously, just sit there with them and let them wait out their time if they're arrogant ×××××s like that and don't even have the decency to actually leave. Because that's all they're doing, fishing for a free-leave, which is exactly what they should not be getting.

As for SE, instead of tending your little cash shop garden, I urge you to implement penalty to those who are getting vote-kicked. Be it a DF-lockout, be it an in-progress lockout, be it anything, just do something about it. I'm aware it could be abused, but frankly, none of the systems in-place are free from that, and this is no worse than last-minute withdraws, so it should not be treated as anything different either.

I have run into this problem, though not yet with a tank. Even so, this is a massive abuse of the vote kick system that isn't talked about enough.
Also see people who claim they have to go because X but want to be vote kicked because they don't want to take the penalty. *rolleyes* Gee, I wonder if they're lying.

Anyway. Please, please give people who are vote kicked a penalty Square Enix. This sort of abuse really hurts the dungeon experience, especially in the OPs example.

Also, I'd leave the cash shop jabs out of this. It's not doing you any favors. Hell, it probably eliminates your chances of getting an SE rep response since the reps most likely aren't allowed to touch that subject with a ten foot pole until someone has a write-up ready for them to post.

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Originally Posted by Verlyn

Anyway. Please, please give people who are vote kicked a penalty Square Enix. This sort of abuse really hurts the dungeon experience, especially in the OPs example.

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I don't like it because it'd punish legit players unless they add a new option (reason) like "AFK on purpose" and if the group chooses this the person receives the penalty.

I like the ones who say something like "I have to go pick the kids up I may be 40 mins, kick me please" if you're gonna be 40 mins why can't you eat a 30 min lockout?

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Originally Posted by Thyranne

I don't like it because it'd punish legit players unless they add a new option (reason) like "AFK on purpose" and if the group chooses this the person receives the penalty.

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There is the qualifier that if SE does this, it will also need to address the other side of the vote kick abuse. That is to say, the whole 'someone trolls, then initiates a votekick of someone who isn't trolling and everyone assumes they're booting the troll.'

I propose a serious revamp. It needs more varied reasons (AFK on Purpose is a great example) and upon initiation, it needs to do the following:
1. Pop up in the middle of the screen. Be UNMOVABLE and UNREMOVABLE until interacted with.
2. Make it so the person is UNABLE to interact with it for 5-10 seconds. FORCE them to have nothing else to do but READ what is going on. Include other details that might identify the offender at a glance, like their class icon and level.
3. Add an ARE YOU SURE prompt if voting yes.

Yes, it's going to be a PITA, but this is intentional. People need to be forced to evaluate if they're booting the right person.

Finally, Squeenix GMs would need to take vote kick abuse seriously. This "different playstyles" hogwash just isn't going to fly.

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Originally Posted by Thyranne

I don't like it because it'd punish legit players unless they add a new option (reason) like "AFK on purpose" and if the group chooses this the person receives the penalty.

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Like I pointed out, I know it could be abused - but, like I also pointed out, none of the systems currently in place are void of that possibility. Also, the legit players are already being punished with ×××× such as the one in my example, and I've been in this situation too many times to see that making any difference :/ sorry, that's just me. I get that it's a valid concern, but (I had actually said this quite a while ago in a similar thread, because I was that fed up with it even then) I've been at the point where I'd rather just have the option to actually punish these abusers for too long.

Slightly related guilty confession. Had a new healer who was having a lot of trouble on satasha hard first boss, I was doing the whole backup stoneskins hallowedground covers and everything.. still wiped a few times.

After a few wipes we complete the fight with good improvement and things pick up, I start to have some faith in him being ready so I grab two packs at once. We almost make it but die, a vote dismiss to the healer was initiated - I vote no, he gets kicked. Reason said was we just couldn't finish the dungeon with his heals. I was a bit sad.. The healer that joined right up afterwards made it all a cake walk though. /sigh... ;_;

I agree with the OP in that you shouldn't vote kick players like that. Make them suffer if they have an attitude like that. Either leave yourself and eat the 30 timeout, or try and get the dungeon done.

I don't, however, agree with the second poster suggesting that people who get vote kicked should get a penalty. There are just too many times when people are vote kicked by malicious people. It would be unfair to then punish them as well. For example, the first time I did the Praetorium I ended up getting vote kicked because I was watching the cut scenes (in my opinion I did nothing wrong there). Would it then be fair to slap a 30 minute time penalty on me because of impatient people who just wanted to speedrun? No.

Vote kick automatically generating a penalty will be the tool of trolls to make DF unusable by anyone. They can have their partially formed party of 3/4 or 5/8 and just vote kick people for kicks. The vote kick abuse will skyrocket like never before.

If Square would just prevent people from returning to duties they got kicked from then I wouldn't be complaining.

So... you didn't report them?

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Originally Posted by BristolRuss

I agree with the OP in that you shouldn't vote kick players like that. Make them suffer if they have an attitude like that. Either leave yourself and eat the 30 timeout, or try and get the dungeon done.
I don't, however, agree with the second poster suggesting that people who get vote kicked should get a penalty. There are just too many times when people are vote kicked by malicious people. It would be unfair to then punish them as well. For example, the first time I did the Praetorium I ended up getting vote kicked because I was watching the cut scenes (in my opinion I did nothing wrong there). Would it then be fair to slap a 30 minute time penalty on me because of impatient people who just wanted to speedrun? No.

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FYI, the OP had suggested it as well. Best take that into account with your likes.
And there is always going to be a casualty. This is why I also suggested a revamp of the system and SE's GMs taking votekick abuse seriously. For something like this to work, it has to be policed.
This really should go without saying.

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Originally Posted by BristolRuss

I don't, however, agree with the second poster suggesting that people who get vote kicked should get a penalty. There are just too many times when people are vote kicked by malicious people. It would be unfair to then punish them as well. For example, the first time I did the Praetorium I ended up getting vote kicked because I was watching the cut scenes (in my opinion I did nothing wrong there). Would it then be fair to slap a 30 minute time penalty on me because of impatient people who just wanted to speedrun? No.

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I have to agree - it's too easy to be penalized for doing nothing wrong - such as your instance.


I've had an instance where I was in the healer's shoes for Shougun's experience - but during Ifrit HM ( ithink.... I'm starting to wonder if it had been Ultima HM o_O My memory is not the greatest) while I was still a fresh 50 WHM, ages ago (before Levi, etc, to give a time frame). I wasn't slacking, I wasn't 'not doing doing my job' - but rather having a difficult time (it was so long ago that I don't remember the cause - more than likely the eruptions and avoiding eruptions from other people's steps) from inexperience, etc. Wiped a bit and last thing I saw while buffing everyone was "I didn't think he was that bad o.o" and bam... wait what? I'm back in Grid? Did they dismiss duty? *Mass confusion* (was the first and only time I'd been kicked, so I didn't know what happened.... didn't dawn on me till later)

So it wasn't that I was trolling, doing nothing, etc - I was just not ready for that kind of content, yet.

At the same time, I've encountered rude players that had been kicked, only to pop back into the party, again while wishing they couldn't be able to (we ended up just leaving, ourselves).

Really, I just think that the only way they would be able to get around this is to ensure that players can't enter the same reserved instance that they had already been in. If the instances have some kind of indication like a unique instance ID to the servers, I'm wondering if they would be able to code that 'Account ID ------ can not re-enter instance ID ------- for 30 mins'.
The offender might get passed around from party to party, but they won't be able to troll the same party and the innocents won't be unfairly penalized.
I'm no developer, so I'm not sure if this is possible or how the instances are set up to begin with.

Only downside is that there would be no real punishment for bad behavior, but at least people won't have to deal with it for long.

I had around the same. doing just Coils 4, one of the healer refused to heal a tank, because his ilvl~105 where to low....
The healer did nothing but waiting for vote kick <-<, refused to take 30mins lockout and leave party..

As for dungeons: Thats why I really dislike stupid speed runs!! <-<
I dont play a game to rush content - to skip everthing! WTF LOL...
Im playing a game to have fun!
This game has no reward for party that finished a dungeon under a certain time limit!

If I was unlucky on duty finder and I have a tank want to speed run without asking the party! : I do as...

-Healer: I play dumb and only use the weak heal spells
-Damager: I play dumb and barely AoE, also no buffs to support myself or the others.

This might me stupid, but thats my only way to teach them a lesson! <-<
They can do speed runs with there friends, or people they know. But duty finder? No thanks.

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Originally Posted by Ophie-Mio

Also, before someone says, "Why didn't you GM them?" Well, takes about 40 minutes for them to get back to me at the minimum. By that point, it'll have been taken care of one way or another.

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And yet, by submitting a harassment report, you might actually change their behavior. I'm not saying to just do that, but you're not changing anything if you just let it go like that. A few days later, they'll probably be back to doing the same crap. A GM gets on their case though and they'll know they need to stop.

Last night one of our FC tanks was votekicked out of Haukke Hard by two i60 melee DPS who didn't like being told to "switch to the adds when they spawn"

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Originally Posted by Niamh_Rillemaugh

And yet, by submitting a harassment report, you might actually change their behavior. I'm not saying to just do that, but you're not changing anything if you just let it go like that. A few days later, they'll probably be back to doing the same crap. A GM gets on their case though and they'll know they need to stop.

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I didn't let it go. I've reported three of these types of people and been given the same sort of end result. The GM comes way too late for me to actually care as the run is long over, I give the details, they say that they are sorry and that's that. These types of people are like RMT. You can nag at a GM all the time but it doesn't actually change anything. A new one replaces them.

Ya, I just came back yesterday after a few months hiatus. Get Sastasha and Qarn hard unlocked, run Sastasha, no issues. Get into Qarn, healer/tank from the same FC, start doing massive pulls and getting us killed. Finally we make it to the final boss, vote kick the blm and votekick me, both of us get booted for no reason. Reason for the blm was "harassment", which made no sense. Did his job, not one of us said a word. Wrote their names down, reported, GM got back to me pretty quick. I didn't even get a chance to vote on the BLM for some reason, maybe he left on his own accord. GM said he'd do something, but you'll never find out if he actually will.

Least I got a bit of luck afterwards, queued back up and got a dungeon in progress and finished it in no time. I dunno, maybe our DPS wasn't up to snuff, but them pulling massive groups like that and dying within seconds is usually indicative of bad tank/healer combo and not DPS.

I play alot of sports games like Madden online. They have a feature where If you disconnect from the game, whether on purpous or not, it gives you a Disconnect percentage based on the # of total games played vs. game disconnected. With that feature i could set my parameters for searching for an online opponent to cover a certain percentage. Which lessens the chances of matching up with someone who has a high disconnect percentage, or quitters. Maybe they should add something like that. Add a feature where when you use duty finder, you can set the "kicked/quit" percentage parameters. So for ex. I set it to 20%. meaning that when i initiate duty finder, the game will only match me up with players whose kicked/quit % is 20 or less.