Newbie question on Smn dots

Sometimes in ST boss fights my Smn dots don't show up. I put my settings to show only my effects and sometimes I get nothing on the target. I get frustrated cause I throw Raging Strikes and then dots but there is no damage to increase and I've wasted RS. I also noticed this with A/S hunts. What am I missing? Is it something to do with multiple Smn? Dots not stacking after so many? Do my dots land but just not show up on the target bar? Like I said, I tried putting my settings to show only my effects but only get 1 effect, sometimes none, sometimes 2. If I'm not doing any damage it makes me feel useless, someone please explain the Smn process to me. Thanks.

So, there are two limits on debuffs for enemies. The first is the display limit, which you're definitely hitting in ST and hunts; this limit is 30 and anything applied after that first 30 will not show up (even if you have it set to only show your own, because logic) but will still take effect. The second limit, which you probably are only hitting in hunts, is the 60 debuff limit; no debuff above #60 will show up and is wasted. The first one makes SMN (and BRD to a much lesser extent) annoying to play; the second is why SMN only shows up on hunts with Titan-Egi and just prays to get some dots up. One way to see if you're hitting the first or second, though, is to watch your floating text and see if it says something like "+Bio" when you cast your dots. If it does, you applied the dot, even if you can't see it. If not, that dot was wasted.

One way I've found on BRD to play around this is to wait until the displays start running out and showing free space on the debuff bar, because you know that your next attacks after that will work. On the other hand, BRD's filler between dots is way less annoying than Ruin, so. . .

Thanks so much. This clears up a lot for me. :)

you can also change the settings to show only your DOTs on the target :)

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Originally Posted by Sanguisio

you can also change the settings to show only your DOTs on the target :)

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how? I mean I have yet to figure out how to do that, right now I constantly see all the DOT's and other debuffs listed on the target. If there is a way to make it so I only see the effects I myself have applied, I kind of want to know. This would be especially useful for things like Syrcus Tower, Crystal Tower, and Hunts in particular...

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Originally Posted by Tharian

how? I mean I have yet to figure out how to do that, right now I constantly see all the DOT's and other debuffs listed on the target. If there is a way to make it so I only see the effects I myself have applied, I kind of want to know. This would be especially useful for things like Syrcus Tower, Crystal Tower, and Hunts in particular...

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Go into your character settings in the menu (I forget exactly where it is buried), it will be a check box that says something like "only show detrimental effects you inflict". This way you will only see the DoTs you are applying to the boss, nothing else.

Caution - if the amount of DoT's exceeds the viewable threshold discussed above, you will still not see your DoT's. They will be applied, but you can't see them, so you'll need to memorize their timing in these situations.

found it, it was located under "Character Configuration > UI Settings > HUD > Targets > Display only detrimental effects you inflict"

Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Tharian

found it, it was located under "Character Configuration > UI Settings > HUD > Targets > Display only detrimental effects you inflict"

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However doing that hides buffs on the mob also.

Another way around this is by being proactive from the start of a fight. (Also let's you visually see your DoTs)

Using Bio2 -> Bio immediately and then swiftcast a Miasma onto the target. This near guarantees you'll get all your main DoTs up at the start of the fight. After that you just make sure you never let them fall off a mob so refresh early as needed.

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

However doing that hides buffs on the mob also.

Another way around this is by being proactive from the start of a fight. (Also let's you visually see your DoTs)

Using Bio2 -> Bio immediately and then swiftcast a Miasma onto the target. This near guarantees you'll get all your main DoTs up at the start of the fight. After that you just make sure you never let them fall off a mob so refresh early as needed.

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That seems to be inefficient, usually it's Bio2-Miasma-Bio, as you probably know. That would be about 5.1 seconds to get those dots up, assuming 2.5 cast time. In your version, it would take Bio2 (2.5)-Bio+Swiftcast (2.5)-Miasma (instant) (~.1) so I don't see the advantages. You would get bio on faster, and that is the largest amount of dot damage (so at least it's guaranteed), but you'd lose Swiftcast for no other real benefit. Plus in those (I can't see my dots, I have to remember what the timing is) the last thing you'd want to do is put them out of order from what you're used to. Most SMN are very comfortable with the Bio2-Miasma-Bio->Bio-Miasma-Bio2 'rotation' we have.

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Originally Posted by ICEFANG13

That seems to be inefficient, usually it's Bio2-Miasma-Bio, as you probably know. That would be about 5.1 seconds to get those dots up, assuming 2.5 cast time. In your version, it would take Bio2 (2.5)-Bio+Swiftcast (2.5)-Miasma (instant) (~.1) so I don't see the advantages. You would get bio on faster, and that is the largest amount of dot damage (so at least it's guaranteed), but you'd lose Swiftcast for no other real benefit. Plus in those (I can't see my dots, I have to remember what the timing is) the last thing you'd want to do is put them out of order from what you're used to. Most SMN are very comfortable with the Bio2-Miasma-Bio->Bio-Miasma-Bio2 'rotation' we have.

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The benefit is purely to get all your DoTs on in a speedy fashion so they can be viewable and actually ON the mob in these environments (ST/Hunts) where, you may have a chance to not get all your DoTs on or viewable to know which is on, if you do
Bio2 -> Miasma -> Bio, by the time Bio appears, more often then not, if everyone in the alliance put up there initially one or two DoTs quickly, you can possibly hit the DoT cap on a mob both visually (annoying), and systematically (really annoying) whereas with my method guarantees otherwise.

There are things you can use Swiftcast for, but for these particular fights, putting up your DoTs initially will take precedence over a Shadow Flare or Ress or whatever else you can use it for.

The contribution from making sure Bio gets on + Fester potency boost > ShadowFlare (where you would use a Swiftcast mostly). Efficiency in these fights is making sure you can see and have your DoTs on the mobs for sure.

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

The benefit is purely to get all your DoTs on in a speedy fashion so they can be viewable and actually ON the mob in these environments (ST/Hunts) where, you may have a chance to not get all your DoTs on or viewable to know which is on, if you do
Bio2 -> Miasma -> Bio, by the time Bio appears, more often then not, if everyone in the alliance put up there initially one or two DoTs quickly, you can possibly hit the DoT cap on a mob both visually (annoying), and systematically (really annoying) whereas with my method guarantees otherwise.

There are things you can use Swiftcast for, but for these particular fights, putting up your DoTs initially will take precedence over a Shadow Flare or Ress or whatever else you can use it for.

The contribution from making sure Bio gets on + Fester potency boost > ShadowFlare (where you would use a Swiftcast mostly). Efficiency in these fights is making sure you can see and have your DoTs on the mobs for sure.

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But I already shown that they would take the same amount of time to apply? They are both 5.1 seconds.

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Originally Posted by ICEFANG13

But I already shown that they would take the same amount of time to apply? They are both 5.1 seconds.

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I think you may be missing my point in the reason.

They are not the same. Your DoTs do not all appear as soon as animation is finished.

In terms of when DoTs apply onto a mob, Miasma is the fastest cast/animation -> debuff appearance in your 3 basic DoTs. Next is Bio2 and finally Bio being the slowest.

When you have a vast mob of players either on an instance like ST/CT or in Hunts, where you WILL approach the DoT appearance cap or approach the actual 60 DoT cap (and you may not have all your DoTs up) switching up your beginning DoTs will guarentee you can see all your DoTs and they are all on the mob.

We have Cast time based DoTs, like you said with one Instant DoT (Bio), we also have a delay in system on our Bio making it one of the slowest appearing DoTs in game. Compared to other classes which for the most part do not suffer this, and most other classes have Instant Cast DoTs.

There is a difference between:

casting 2 skills and 1 Instant,
and
casting 1 skill and 2 Instants,

and the fundamental difference is in this particular circumstance when both you can become visually challenged on seeing the duration of your DoTs, or miss out on a DoT entirely, if enough people are putting up DoTs immediately, in those seconds your casting those two skills.

In going through 2 casts +1 instant, you have a high chance of not being able to see your Bio on the mob, thus losing track of when it needs to be refreshed or possibly not having it at all because you hit the DoT cap, if enough people are putting up their DoTs at once.