In FFXI, each class had one ability that had a two hour cooldown (later reduced to 1 hour) and had a very powerful effect. I'm hardly asking for FFXI-2 here, but this is one aspect of it that appealed to me. Of course, considering the fast pace of this game they can probably work with a 20 minute cooldown, enough to ensure that it's only seeing use once, maybe twice per dungeon. Maybe something like this as level 60 skills:
Paladin: Shining Sword - Provoke all enemies in a player-centered AoE, generate additional enmity equal to Rage of Halone, and reduce their accuracy by 90% for 10 seconds.
Warrior: Primordial Fury - Instantly grants maximum Wrath and Infuriated. You remain Infuriated for the next 10 seconds no matter what you do.
Monk: Thousand Fists - Instantly grants maximum Greased Lightning. For the next 5 seconds your auto-attacks will have their rate tripled, and the GCD will be halved.
Dragoon: Rising Dragon - Dragoon jumps, losing any heavy or bind effects, and remains in the air for 3 seconds. During that time he can still move but cannot be targeted or damaged by anything. Upon landing, all nearby enemies take a 500 potency hit.
Ninja: Kage Bunshin - Ninja summons a clone that will mimic every move the Ninja makes. Clone's actions have half the potency of the original. Clone loses 10% of it's HP every tick (dies in 30 secs if it receives no additional damage) and cannot be healed.
Bard: Encore - Bard uses every song at once at double effectiveness (doesn't stack with Battle Voice) without losing DPS. This includes Swiftsong if out of battle, but it's effectiveness is unaffected.
Black Mage: Manafont - For 10 seconds, the BLM can cast spells even if they do not have the required amount of MP; in such a case, the spell will instead consume all their MP, or none if their MP is alreday 0. Casting Flare will end the effect immediately.
Summoner: Grand Summon - For 20 seconds, all Summon abilities have 0 cast time. You may have up to 3 Egi out at once, however they can't be controlled. Rouse, Spur and Enkindle apply to every Egi, but Sustain only applies to the most recently summoned one. When the time runs out, all but the most recently summoned Egi will vanish.
White Mage: Arise - Raise a target with full HP, MP and TP, and without weakness.
Scholar: Fae Blessing - 100% chance to crit for 10 seconds.
I'm no theorycrafter, so I don't know how balanced any of these would be. :p I'd also like to know if the general idea behind it is sound.
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Originally Posted by Jacost
Individual "Limit Breaks"
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12-06-2014, 10:16 AMJacostIndividual "Limit Breaks"
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12-06-2014, 10:20 AMBrightshadow
20 minute cooldowns won't work in a modern MMO like this, and these are too weak to be limit breaks perhaps on 5 minute recast timer.
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12-06-2014, 11:00 AMAkiza
For a limit break 3 a 5 minute recast timer would be ideal because this game is fast paced. Raid bosses take 11 minutes to kill at most. A 20 minute recast timer on limit break 3 won't work unless SE made raid bosses take 40-45 minutes to kill.
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12-06-2014, 11:38 AMVelox
as far as balance goes, MNK, WAR, WHM seem extremely underwhelming compared to the abilities you gave the other jobs.
If said LBs were to have their own bar separate from the party gauge than a good balance for time would be to make them so they can only be used once during a boss fight and twice (at the most) during a long dungeon. Given that, I'd say a 7min recast would be ideal (depending how fast the gauge fills). -
12-06-2014, 12:09 PMShougun
Blackmage must be one sad puppy when Summoner can whip out three pets that do about a quarter of his dps each. :P
I like using super powered spells but at the same time you'd expect the devs to design around them if they do exist, you'd get more clutch moments because of them (I imagine at least). -
12-06-2014, 12:41 PMVorpal_Sporkhttps://imgflip.com/readImage?iid=412211Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacost
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12-06-2014, 12:45 PMChiramu
SMN LB3 should be to summon the primal, the alternative of meteor for BLM. That is what I thought when SE were saying they will be making different LBs for classes.
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12-06-2014, 12:46 PMcoldreactive
None of these would be usable in PVP due to balance reasons. Not that it matters, I hate PVP and don't want to touch it, ever.
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12-06-2014, 12:50 PMAlistaireIf you're no theorycrafter, why do you take the time to just throw out ridiculous ideas like these? And it's not just you, pretty much every post on this entire forum that goes in detail on someone's "dream abilities" are just way out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacost
They're going to keep it simple, DPS will either do a single or AOE DPS hit, tanks will mitigate damage, healers will heal. The only problems with the current system is that BRD got classed as a healer for some reason, there's just 1 animation between MNK and DRG, when neither even uses a sword, and if you're at the point of needing a healer LB to raise, that leaves people too vulnerable for too long.
Basically your suggestions would make any content that required such LB use for its level of gear practically undoable.
imo one big massive ruin-ball would be cool as well :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Chiramu
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12-06-2014, 01:41 PMPercimontIt also risks completely unbalancing all existing content. Unless these skills are sufficiently weak (and some of them seem to be) that they really shouldn't even be considered limit breaks, if every player in the party or alliance is able to fire off 1 or 2 of these apiece during a boss fight, it would dramatically change and likely break existing fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alistaire
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12-06-2014, 01:51 PMRyans
I'd rather have personal limit breaks interact with each other. Make a system similar to FFXI skill chains. All the LBs can be used separately, but if you time them together you get an additional effect. That additional effect creates a few second window for a mage LB to be more potent. Dragoon uses his LB, Paladin uses his LB, Monk uses his LB, puts an effect on the boss that increases the potency of the black mage's LB.
Each job could have more than one LB also. For instance, Ninja could have a ninjutsu LB that could benefit from the additional potency and a physical LB that can used in the chain. Dragoon could have a pure damage LB and an LB that does less damage but grants a crit buff or something.
Additionally, the LBs would interact with each other differently. A monk using his pure damage LB with the dragoon's pure damage LB wouldn't create an additional effect to boost the potency of a magic LB, but a monk using his pure damage LB with the dragoon's crit buff LB would. -
12-06-2014, 04:41 PMKorilynnWhen someone doesn't give numbers. People complain. Someone gives numbers. People complain. Someone gives thought out numbers and can point to how they're balanced. People complain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alistaire
People just like to complain :p
To the OP though, I like this idea! I find the LBs fun to use! Why limit them to the dungeon?! What would be better is if my LB worked with the class I was playing! Why is my Monk pulling out a huge sword? I'd love some huge energy claws or some nice martial arts move! -
12-06-2014, 04:58 PMSaccharin
It seems limit break might have been a poor choice of ward because reading them it seems like it has nothing to do with the party gauge. The problem with massive cooldowns is that they need to be on large cooldowns and you've picked up on that. The problem is when they are on cooldown. With the limit break you get usually one massive damage spell dependant on who casts it for the whole party each fight. With a personal massive cooldown you have 8 other people with one and then encounter designers have to design around 8 people using their massive cooldown. If they don't then the fight becomes trivial. If you still have your massive attack on cooldown then the encounter is impossible to beat without it. If you are doing coil for instance do you wait 15 minutes for the cooldowns. Seems a waste.
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12-06-2014, 08:34 PMFelis
during 1.x we had 15 min skills that we learned with lv50.
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12-06-2014, 09:24 PMhallenaLets not go there. super powerful skills on a long cooldowns are fun but they have to balance raid bosses around them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacost
Alright guys, next pull in 20minute. -
12-06-2014, 11:06 PMPhyllo
Why not just go for simple conditions ala FF 8, only being able to use it when low on hp or ala FF10; a gauge that fills due to specific actions like taking damage or dealing damage or healing teammates?
Anyway I like your idea OP, as unbalanced as it could be, it seems pretty nice :) -
12-06-2014, 11:29 PMParodine
I like the idea, although it looks like Dragoon gets short-changed. 500 potency for a limit break seems nice at first, but if you're in the air for 3 seconds and were at the vorpal->full thrust part of your combo anyway, you'd do more damage with that than this hit. And looking at the other DD LB's, it'd get like no use.
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12-07-2014, 12:43 AMJacost
Just to address some of the comments: No, these are not true LBs, and have no bar. They'd be regular skills in terms of mechanics, but they evoke the feel of a limit break as we know them from previous FFs. I gave a 20 minute cooldown to ensure that they'd probably only see use once a run, but 5-10 minutes probably would work better.
The numbers could definitely use some adjustment by someone who knows this stuff inside and out. I just designed them thematically, the idea being that this is what happens when a hero of this class really pulls out all the stops and shows that they have, in fact, been getting stronger over the last year. The only one I think doesn't really work is the WHM one, but I had some issues there. The only other thing I could think of at the time was a full-party Benediction, which sounded unimpressive (although perhaps if it also healed all status effects on the party...). Another idea I had later was allowing infinite Freecure and Overcure for a brief period.
As to balance... Like I said, these would be learned at level 60. I think it's likely that SE will have all current content level-synched to 50 in future to preserve it's current balance, allowing them to shake things up for Heavensward. Since these wouldn't be usable outside of expansion stuff anyway, it could be designed around at SE's leisure. -
12-07-2014, 02:04 AMHyouretsuzanI think he meant that regardless of what you do, you keep infuriated. Meaning you can spam moves like steel cyclone for those 10 secs. Urrr, I think anyways.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vorpal_Spork
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12-07-2014, 02:07 AMKuskoo
it'd be great of the individual limit breaks has pro and cons to em; off that bat
-paladins: reduce damage overall to the party but drop overall damage like effects of shield oath which can effect dps checks
-warriors: increases damage output enmity (self) and hp to all but the drawback is at least 1 member thats not a tank and gotta be within a certain range for each benefit which effects party mechanics
-black mages: 8 sec "fury" status castin any spells then the drawback is a 5 sec invincible burst final attack which can potentially hurt your party if caught in the aoe; big risk thing
-bards: cast a song for mass tp and mp reduction for 20 secs then cast a finale aoe attack but the drawback bard song lockout for 1 min
-dragoons: increase tp cost for all classes but increases damage output for 20 secs then pulls off a long animation attack like black mages risks of hurting the party
-white mages: pulls off a powerful regen/cure aoe skill and negates any incoming status for 20 secs but boss wise mechanics will not be affected; drawback is long animation limit break casting 12 secs
-scholar: casts special aoe buffs in the area simliar to arcanist story quest 1 can lower damage taken, another increases skill/cast speed for 40 secs, another casts a negate status effect shield for 10; drawback is it can't be stack with other zones and overall 9 sec cast when doing it -
12-07-2014, 10:31 AMQiLymePye
I like this idea...maybe instead of it being called a "limit break", maybe some kind of gamble? Because it can either help you out of a tough situation or completely make it worse. would make for interesting dungeon/raids.