The game needs more interesting side content that is less grindy.

I wish the dev team would take a look at the bright spots of FFXI, systems such as BCNM, ENM, Assault, etc. Basically, mini-contents that are objective-based, fun, challenging, etc. Honestly, these contents are a lot like guildhest, except guildhest is faceroll easy, and has no ongoing rewards. Dev team intends them to be consumed, and then never revisited. This is an AWFUL waste of resources. Instead design more guildhests or guildhest like content (like BCNM etc from FFXI) that there is a reason to keep going back, be it loot, xp, whatever. Even FFXIV 1.0 had this kind of content in the form of special levequests.

Why not have more forms of special levequest, come to think of it? That have BCNM-type challenge and reward?

For FFXIV, currently you have:

Final Coil
Syrcus Tower
Hunt
previous raid tiers

Final Coil being the main endgame is disappointing in and of itself, because of severe lockout and emphasis on 8 man, but that's neither here nor there. Let's assume Final Coil or equivalent is amazing. Still, we need something else to do...

Syrcus Tower is good, but it's only the one thing. Repeat enough, and well, boring.

Hunts are no longer as profitable as they were before 2.4, and aren't very entertaining to begin with. They are as boring as FATEs. Yes, that's right. FATEs are boring. Hunts are boring. Making everything faceroll easy also makes it boring. People do this stuff only to get something, not because they enjoy it, which is why there are so many complaints around it.

So really outside of, say, throwing your life away crafting, there really isn't that much side stuff to do besides level. Maybe it's time for more interesting stuff to be added? I mean, you could grind out relic quest, but I don't think I need to repeat what a ridiculously long and uninteresting grind that is, either. I can't wait to run 150-300+ random contents to turn my Novus into a Nexus! And that's assuming I only go for good lights. lol

I will and always agree with all of your opinions until there are some changes happen.

I think the devs, even Yoshi are too focus on end-game content, in other words, hardcore players and they are really forget for other players.

Agreed , i hope devs take notice of this.

I simply want Guildhests to be relevant once you hit lv 50. I miss all the fun KS/BCNMs in XI.

I wish they do include ffxi systems really loved them and it's so nice brings back memories where u get to do group thing with Ls that don't rage quit on u Help others out gearing them up sky sea etc.. but sadly this is 14-WoW ONRY!

The game lacks teamwork ...feels like playing offline game sometimes with the non stop grind oh well :v

I think the game needs less grindy then it will become more interesting.

This game is considered less grindy than most MMOs. And you are comparing it to a game that's been out for a decade.

You should also recognize that a lot of the FFXIV content is just revised forms of what we had in FFXI. Assaults are dungeons, trials are BCNMs, hunts are NMs, FATEs are Campaign/Besieged, etc.

I agree with the idea of new and interesting content. That's always a good thing in an MMO. But, let's not pretend that FFXI was any less grinding than we see in FFXIV. In fact, it was in almost every case more so.

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Originally Posted by Saevel

You should also recognize that a lot of the FFXIV content is just revised forms of what we had in FFXI. Assaults are dungeons, trials are BCNMs, hunts are NMs, FATEs are Campaign/Besieged, etc.

I agree with the idea of new and interesting content. That's always a good thing in an MMO. But, let's not pretend that FFXI was any less grinding than we see in FFXIV. In fact, it was in almost every case more so.

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too bad they didnt keep the weapon skill system and tie tp gain to autos since they often quicker than 3 seconds

Agreed. I love FF14 but I stopped my subscription because I'm tired of farming stuff again and again such like in WOW. I hope Gold Saucer will bring a lot of ne fun !

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Originally Posted by Saevel

But, let's not pretend that FFXI was any less grinding than we see in FFXIV. In fact, it was in almost every case more so.

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This. The grind is what differentiates players from each other. You can't hope to be a 4 star crafter, 3 star gatherer, and final coil raider as a casual. You want high end gear? Then get ironworks, its why it is there. It is pretty insane how easy it is to get to 50. FFXI was a grind just to get classes up. You needed a group to level and almost do anything. Team work was the only way to succeed but alas people complain about a lack of teamwork and also want something less grindy. I don't see how the two can coincide.

This is a rather new MMO so not having endless content is to be expected.

As for side content, Golden saucer anyone? Chocobo racing and triple triad just for starters.

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Originally Posted by Avalios

This is a rather new MMO so not having endless content is to be expected.

As for side content, Golden saucer anyone? Chocobo racing and triple triad just for starters.

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This is my exact thought too. I mean, differentiating ARR from 1.0, the game has only been out for about a year and a half-ish, and it looks to me like they are working on adding interesting side content. We've even known Gold Saucer was coming for a long while now. People just expect things to happen overnight.

Gold Saucer will still be grindy so not sure why people are referencing that as non-grindy content though maybe just referencing as something new to grind. Whether grinding for prizes, gil, cards or raising/racing a chocobo. Personally I don't mind grindy content as long as it's fun content to grind.

The least grindy aspect of this game is the main story and hildibrand etc quest lines because can only do it once per character but then stuck grinding fates/dungeons/leves on every single alt class for that character which is the most annoying grindy aspect of game for me and would be nice if could repeat story lines on alt classes but with no quest reward (item or gil) but still give experience reward to help level that alt class.

Relic/zodiac novus etc weapon grind coming in second place to that being annoying, Third place in most annoying to me is the beast tribe rep grind is also kind of annoying because of the limitations placed on how much reputation can gain per day. Fourth place in most annoying goes to tokens like soldiery and poetics when they are limited in how many can farm because such limitations annoy me.

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

Gold Saucer will still be grindy so not sure why people are referencing that as non-grindy content though maybe just referencing as something new to grind. Whether grinding for prizes, gil, cards or raising/racing a chocobo. Personally I don't mind grindy content as long as it's fun content to grind.

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Um, just wondering, but how is a casino grindy? The Mandervile Gold Saucer will be a temple to The Evil God RNGesus, of that there's now doubt, but how is it grindy exactly? It's a friggen casino, you buy chips/coins/what ever the F- they're called and blow it all on minigames. The only thing I MIGHT see as grindy would be tripel triad but I think having "Booster Packs" would add to the experience more than buying indivedual cards. And Chocobo raising should be an experence not just "The next grind fest" since they're suppose to be our loyal steed companions that will follow us through the seven hells and back.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

Um, just wondering, but how is a casino grindy?

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Repeating the same process over and over is grinding, putting more and more coins in slots and spamming lever hoping to get different prize for example or hunting/battling for cards, buying items and raising stats on chocobo and racing it over and over...more enjoyable or less enjoyable to a person is subjective but all the things I mentioned are still grinds just like farming gil or grinding exp, saving up/farming tokens for gear or farming reputation for beast tribes, running dungeons/trials/fates/leves or raids over and over etc.

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

Repeating the same process over and over is grinding, putting more and more coins in slots and spamming lever hoping to get different prize for example or hunting/battling for cards, buying items and raising stats on chocobo and racing it over and over...more enjoyable or less enjoyable to a person is subjective but all the things I mentioned are still grinds just like farming gil or grinding exp, saving up/farming tokens for gear or farming reputation for beast tribes, running dungeons/trials/fates/leves or raids over and over etc.

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In that case, what kind of content would consider to be less grindy?

Because, honestly, every game or video game is a grind of something.

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Originally Posted by Squintina

In that case, what kind of content would consider to be less grindy?

Because, honestly, every game or video game is a grind of something.

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That was more my point on the matter. Yea you earn to spend, spend to buy, and buy to do crap. But if that's the definition of grinding then I have no idea what isn't grinding. Even a job IRL is still just grinding. Thus the phrase "Back to the grind". Getting to 50 for story quests? Grind. Earning tomes/seals/gil for items? Grind. Walking from point A to point B to get any where, guess what, even that is a grind when you think about it >_< "why can't I just teleport to any X-Y cordinate I type in?" "Why, because you just have to walk some places, be glade we can port at all" (A legit conversation I had with anouther member of an old FC on Balmung)

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Originally Posted by Squintina

In that case, what kind of content would consider to be less grindy?

Because, honestly, every game or video game is a grind of something.

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I gave examples in an earlier post. Something that is done once is less grindy than something that is done multiple times, something done once per character is less grindy than something that is done multiple times per character. As I also said I have no problems with things being grindy, some grindy things I enjoy more than other grindy things and the same applies to each persons preferences.

My initial point wasn't that I dislike grinds, it was that the assumption GS will not be grindy is not true. It will probably be the kind of grindy I enjoy but a grind nevertheless in trying to get more coins, points, gear or rewards, win more races or get more cards. It won't offer you a respite from grinding, just opens up new ways to grind of which may find more enjoyable than some other examples.

You pay a monthly charge grind is going to happen most patches are expected to last @ least 3-6 months so you keep that sub active.Been gaming a long time and it's the same in every MMO up to this point rather it be dailies or gathering gear/items it will be repetitive.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

That was more my point on the matter. Yea you earn to spend, spend to buy, and buy to do crap. But if that's the definition of grinding then I have no idea what isn't grinding.

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It's only a "grind" if it isn't fun. But fun is subjective, eg I didn't mind the ATMA farm, but hated the animus books, some are in reverse.

Players asked for timesinks, complained how quick it was to be able to get the Zenith, so SE complied and now they compain it takes too long...

No matter what and how something gets implemented, even if the players asked for it, there will be complaints. Even from the exact same people who asked for it in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Snip.

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That's a good example considering there's nothing I hate more than Fate Grinding. On the other hand I love dungeons and raids and frequently do lower level ones for vanity/retainer gear, lvling alts, or just plain Shits and Giggles. So the Atma Books and tomes needed for Animus are actually quite fun to me. The Alexandrite farm on the other hand takes you for a second tour of atma grind hell so I have a feeling it's probably going to be a pain to me as well. But the Nexus and Zodiac upgrade quests I imagine I'll enjoy since it's more trial, raid, and dungeon farming.

Everything's going to be a grind, but it'd be nice if there were more variety to it. For example, it would have been great if there were enough quests in the game to get one character to 50 without having had to repeat a fate/dungeon/ etc more than once. Even better, if those quests (aside from the main story ones) would reset with your class. Even better than that, is multiple zones to quest to 50, such that at any given level tier, you have multiple locations that you can choose to quest. Right now, that's impossible. The game has so little actual content for leveling. Grinding the same dungeons/fates/leves isn't fun because you are doing the same things multiple times in such close succession. I think that's why people get tired of it so quickly. You need to have more variety.

This game is also barley a year and a half old as well. I remember back when WoW first became more than a "Basement Nerd" hobby it was sorely lacking on content as well. Now around 8-10 expantions later and WoW is a insanely massive game with so much to do that they've had to start raising people to high levels right out of the gate just so they can play catch up and still make it to end game before the next three expansions happen.

We'll be looking at our FIRST expansion around the time of the 2nd anniversary of ARR and just adding Dravania,Xel'phatol, and the rest of Courthas will almost double the size of the game. They're also said at some point it's planed for us to go to Oethard which is the continent where Garlemauld and Dohma are so when that comes out "Vanilla" ARR will look even tinier by comparison.

To Quote Director Yoshida, "We ask you, Please be Patient."

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

FFXI was a grind just to get classes up. You needed a group to level and almost do anything. Team work was the only way to succeed but alas people complain about a lack of teamwork and also want something less grindy. I don't see how the two can coincide.

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Give me the exp parties back than the madness of doing the same 4 Leves over and over to level up.

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Originally Posted by XarcVal

Give me the exp parties back than the madness of doing the same 4 Leves over and over to level up.

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I loved the exp parties, magic bursts, and skill chains. I was honestly dismayed when skill chains and magic bursts weren't in FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by FaileExperiment

For example, it would have been great if there were enough quests in the game to get one character to 50 without having had to repeat a fate/dungeon/ etc more than once.

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That would make it too much like other games.

I actually like how the class/job = main weapon componet of FFXIV works, it makes picking the wrong class out the gate or picking the wrong race/side less of an issue, since you don't lose the work you've already put into the storyline.

Where FFXIV tends to not be as fun is how little cooperative content there is. Sure the PUG'ing along dungeons works out just fine, albeit some pathetic trolls that want a perfect team every time. What would improve this is if you gave a commendation to someone, that person would be at the top of your list to party with again during DF's.

What I really get disappointed with in other games is how super-linear they are. Take SW:TOR for example... as you progress you move to different parts of the map, and once you leave the map, you never ever have a reason to come back. Many Freemium games are like that as well. Once you hit the level cap, all that's left to do is craft stuff to get the BiS gear or roll another character. FFXIV doesn't need you to roll another character, ever.

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Originally Posted by Saevel

You should also recognize that a lot of the FFXIV content is just revised forms of what we had in FFXI. Assaults are dungeons, trials are BCNMs, hunts are NMs, FATEs are Campaign/Besieged, etc.

I agree with the idea of new and interesting content. That's always a good thing in an MMO. But, let's not pretend that FFXI was any less grinding than we see in FFXIV. In fact, it was in almost every case more so.

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Exactly^ FFXIV is FFXI 2.0, and anyone who thinks ffxiv is grindy, trying camping crabs in Valkurm for xp, or madragora buds in yuhtunga, or colibris in.. you get the point. Oh you died? sorry, xp loss, enjoy grinding some more! No friends with tenshodo invites? go farm yagudo necklaces. only need about 300, hope you like the scenery of Giddeus, did I mention it only stacks to 12? btw, no mounts to be had, enjoy the 20 min walk to and fro from Windurst.

Content takes too long to get to end game - its considered 'grindy'
Content takes too short to get to end game - its considered 'too easy'

Theyll never be able to win like every other company thats released a game because there will always be 2 kinds of people - those that want content to last longer or get instant rewards for minimal effort.

I for one enjoy more grindy stuff if i had to choose because the feeling of satisfaction at the end is far more rewarding than being practically given stuff and complaining theres nothing left to do or the game is too easy or 'faceroll'