There needs to be another category for off-tanks that have split distribution of STR + VIT. Right now when doing endgame raiding, the best option for OT's are i90 melded accessories. And their only upgrade will be when i110 crafted accessories come out and then we have to meld those. So basically as OT's, we are having to spend more gil than the rest of the team if we want to be optimally geared.
OT's are stuck in that funny category of being both tank and dps. Please consider making STR + VIT accessories.
OT accessories
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12-06-2014, 06:06 AMTaeiOT accessories
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12-06-2014, 06:30 AMSasha
Actually right now, its better to go with a split of str and vit i130 (i120 in places if you have too)accessories. Not that its that feasable for most, its slightly less vit with more str and 2 full stats on it, the i110 will most probably be better than a mix though (unless tier iV materia limitations gets in the way).
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12-06-2014, 06:30 AMTyrn
I used to think
I had the answers to everything,
But now I know
Life doesn't always go my way, yeah
Feels like I'm caught in the middle
That's when I realize
I'm not a DPS,
Not yet a tank.
All I need is melds,
A materia that is mine,
While I'm in between. -
12-06-2014, 06:34 AMChihaya
Take that 30 vit and put it in str.
But seriously, if a tank wants to tank - they shouldn't have too high of an expectation in dpsing.
and if a tank wants to dps - they shouldn't have too high expectation to be living through shit that a full vit tank can.
Edit: and this is no different than any other class wanting more VIT to live through stuff, I've seen FCoB groups with i90 accessories with VIT melds. -
12-06-2014, 06:42 AMDoctorPepper
Personally don't see why you need this, there are tanks using full ruby accessories in FCOB who do just fine. Also, if they add non-meldable split attribute accessories they would have to have a weaker split otherwise no tank would ever use the full vit accessories. Any good tank who has the gil to spend already uses these in place of i110 for most content and don't generally replace them unless they get an ironworks accessory.
Right now the fully melded i90 accessories give 13 str and 15 vit while the non-meldable i110 accessories (20 ilvls higher) only have 18 str or 21 vit alone so an i110 option that gives ilvl appropriate stat splits would be OP in comparison to current i110 (and probably i120/130) accessories and in my opinion you should have to pay a bit of extra money for that boost when it does come.
It's fairly certain that i110 crafted accessories with an OP stat split are coming, I'd rather they don't overshadow the brand new ironworks gear for a while yet but that's just my opinion. We've only had the new stuff for little over a month. -
12-06-2014, 07:32 AMmelflomil
There was a war we picked up for T11 because our statics war couldn't make it. This dude barely had 9000 Hp in defiance. We ask him asked him to go mostly VIT so he can at least be over 9500 and close to 10000, but he ignore us. I usually dps a little bit between hits pushing the most 110 dps for 1st phase of the fight as a Scholar . The entire time we pulled I averaged about 30 dps because I had to babysit the war. I know im not a bad healer but that War pushed it. Meet the Hp threshold first and than stack strength accessories. Our statics war has 11k. I think that's too much I said 10.2 to 10.5 should be.enough.
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12-06-2014, 08:07 AMZumi
The thing is all content in the game is beatable with both tanks using vit accessories so in the end it doesn't really matter just effects kill speed slightly by a few seconds.
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12-06-2014, 08:22 AMDonjo
So, you wanna use STR as the Off Tank. If you:
Are progressing and especially if you haven't cleared the fight yet: Full VIT. You're the one who will take the boss if the MT dies. If you have significantly less health than the MT, you've turned a possible recovery into certain death.
Haven't won the fight yet, but you know what you're doing and the MT isn't really dying anymore: Replace your bonus stats. That should suffice and keep you from killing the group on the rarer MT death.
You've won at least once: Keeping those bonus stats, replace an accessory. Two if you're feeling daring.
The fight is on farm: All STR accessories if you're feeling extra confident. i90 accessories if you want the balance.
ALWAYS NOTE: Listen to your healers. If they're uncomfortable with the idea of you speccing too far into strength, listen to them!. They're the ones who are directly responsible for most of the effort required to make sure you don't die. Replacing VIT doesn't challenge just your limits; it challenges theirs too. Respect that.
Special Cases
The fight has regular tank swaps: Whatever the healers are comfortable with the MT doing, you should match it.
You take more damage than the MT while doing your job normally(for example, the adds hit harder than the boss itself): Be more careful about what VIT you replace.
You think that more Tank damage will clear the basic DPS check necessary to clear the fight: Stop right there and find out who among your DPS is underperforming. If the party has to rely on Tanks speccing out of VIT to deal enough damage to kill the boss, someone is being carried. In the words of Xenosys Vex, alternate configurations of both character and party should be something you do to exceed limits, not meet them. -
12-06-2014, 08:47 AMTaei
Xenosys uses i90 crafted accessories:
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/5331858/
Also, if you look at all of the WAR that have cleared FCOB early, they are all using i90 pentamelds. -
12-06-2014, 08:59 AMcookiecutterIf you're going by world first progression logic, then warriors weren't the only people that needed crafted gear to get through coil early. Many of the dps and healers needed crafted armor pieces to meet the dps/heal checks to complete fcob. Also some of the classes that had typically lower hp had to use accessories as well to meet hp checks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taei
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12-06-2014, 09:04 AMlololinkWhy not equipping 2 VIT accessories and 3 STR accessories ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Taei
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12-06-2014, 09:11 AMcookiecutterBecause tank crafted accessories can have both vit and str so you get more of both stats overall by equipping a crafted accessory over a non-crafted accessory that only has one of those stats.Quote:
Originally Posted by lololink
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12-06-2014, 09:12 AMlololinkIsn't that the case of most of the accessories anyway ? Crafted one can get much more stats.Quote:
Originally Posted by cookiecutter
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12-06-2014, 09:22 AMDoctorPepperIt only matters for tank though, they're the only job that actively relies on more than 1 base attribute strongly. DPS and Healers generally won't want to sacrifice any STR/DEX/INT/MND for a little extra VIT or some additional secondary stats. The highest craftable acc right now are i90 so aside from tanks they are pretty irrelevant at this point regardless of melds.Quote:
Originally Posted by lololink
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12-06-2014, 09:38 AMSpookyGhostIf a DPS uses crafted accessories, they are losing out on DPS to gain Vitality. If a healer uses crafted accessories, they are losing out on healing potency to gain Vitality. If a tank uses crafted accessories, they are losing out on unnecessary health to gain DPS. Only one of these is consistently worth it, the others are replaced due to no longer needing the extra Vitality. A tank typically doesn't want to completely shed Vitality, so having a mix of it and STR is ideal.Quote:
Originally Posted by lololink
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12-06-2014, 12:15 PMCyrus-Wallace
Well, being an "OT" is not a standard function but players took advantage of it and asked them to DPS instead. In other words, it's not an official role. You're tank, you tank. So, I think it'll be unlikely to the dev team to release accesories and/or armor pieces with said stats. It's true that you can either go cheap and combine both accesories or go expensive and pentameld ilvl 90 accesories soon to be replaced with ilvl 110 in 2.5 possibly.
Personal experience incoming which may or may not apply to yours needs: On my end, I prefer to out-DPS my job, I dislike the idea of not doing damage, even as a MT, that's why our war puts 240+ DPS on T12 (Depends if he's inspired or not) and I pull close to the 190 DPS, making the fight a lot easier. T10 and 11 are a joke. Yeah, both MT and OT wear pentamelded ilvl 90 accesories. Saying this, it's all matter of optimization, you can say "+30 DPS is nothing" but it adds up. You never have enough DPS. That's my raiding rule. :P
In the end, you don't need a lot of HP in the FCOB, but in T13. This mostly applies to the other roles... as an OT you can be perfectly fine with either pentamelded accesories or the vit/str accesories mix. The MT on the other hand, if you have good healers, it won't be an issue. Go pentamelded or... vit/str accesories mix. If not... gosh, wear your vit accesories. This was mostly the option for brand new players stepping into the final Coil, because they pretty much were ilvl 110, so they needed the HP and they wanted to not kill their DPS in the process. Nowdays, with more and more people beating said content and getting some Dreadwyrm shinies combined with the tomes gear, including the weapon upgrades, using these accesories became optional, because the base DPS should be good by now. -
12-06-2014, 01:34 PMHakuroDK
I have a proper tanking set and a DPS set for my WAR. If I am required to be MT at least some of the time (through enmity swapping at least), I'll use my tanking set. If I'm only there as a "third wheel" off-tank that's not necessary to do anything but DPS (i.e. most bosses in Syrcus Tower), I put on my DPS set. Thankfully I can change my gear entirely mid-run so long as that doesn't change my class/job.