With the recent festival changes, there are certain aspects of the game that really come to life! If you haven't taken a boat ride since the summer festival started... I highly recommend doing so. The boat is decorated both inside and out!
So as I was admiring the new decorations, I got to thinking that there is still something missing that continues to make the world look... rather dead and stale.
The first thing I noticed is that the newer modeled festival lanterns, braziers, etc, all look very unique. They honestly throw my enjoyment level up in the game quite a bit just by looking at them. Then I realized that there aren't unique objects in the cities? Why? Every object in the cities, including vendor stalls, are all copy cats of each other. The balloon stand and the fireworks stand look great, so why don't we have more objects like that in the world?
Secondly, the more prominent thing I noticed is that there are no or very few animated objects in the entire game!!! Why?
The new festival lanterns should bob and weave with the boat ride or sway in the wind. The flags and banners that came with 1.18 should also sway in the wind or at least flutter a little. They are just complete inanimate objects.
Clearly physics engines increase the need for a stronger and better computer, but these objects really need to move...
Third; very few NPCs walk... anywhere. They just stand like robots. It would be nice to see some NPCs walking throughout the cities, even if they serve no purpose in the game. Just a few walking NPCs would create a lot of lifelike atmosphere.
lastly; some small animated objects in the field like mice or birds would add a lot of atmosphere and dynamics to the world, make it less ... "stone slab" like.
Animated World Objects [Can I have them?]
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08-12-2011, 05:07 PMTibianAnimated World Objects [Can I have them?]
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08-12-2011, 05:17 PMPlatinumstorm
Hah, I was going to make the exact same thread today or tomorrow.
The decorations, especially the balloon stall, added so much to the atmosphere of the game.
For those who haven't seen it
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18930059/FF14/balloonstand.png
The balloons up top move up and down and give off a nice glow, and the balloons inside of the cauldron bob around. It just makes it look so much better from their tiny and fun animations.
The lanterns worked amazingly on the boat, if they would move around and cast lights onto the boat itself it would be even better. Cool ambient lighting always makes things neat.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18930059/FF1...tionboat02.png
While the event itself is boring, the decorations have won me over. I can't wait to see what happens with housing. -
08-12-2011, 05:18 PMJynx
While I don't dissagree I think there needs to be more moving objects in the game as well, it's going to be a mixed bag of "I want it this way or that way" for players.
The developers can't spend time making every useless vendor stall animated in some way, go check the guilds they are pretty lively places so we do know they are focusing on areas we actually tend to visit beyond being a passerby. NPC's we can't interact with because they move around? We would never hear the end of it! and if we could interact we would never hear the end of people complaining that they can't find them!
Hell XI had a very small group of NPC's who moved around the area at all, only one I remember off-hand was a delivery boy in Sandoria would would run a curcit.
The field-areas themselves to do need more variaty and life though, from the monster who roam it to the land itself. There are some amazing locals within the game if you really look for them, it's a shame many of them are out of the way areas you don't visit often.
Go visit Coerthas's second hamlet...Ravens Fall (Or something like that) it looks amazing with the tiered mountainside and rocky outcrops to cross the creeks. The black shrouds North east area is pretty tight looking as well with the sylph city and bottomless void while your sprawling on a rather small path.
The game gives us little reason to find these areas though and it's a shame that this is how it was set out, the large zones feel so small beause we don't explore even a 1/3rd of them on a daily basis...hell with teleporting I doubt many see 1/10th of many zones.
People who say the world feels too similar and flat doubtfully explore a whole lot. The developers poured alot of heart and soul into the detail of many areas and it has to be a massive knife in the back when a select few idiot say "Copy pasta!" without going further than the first road to the first camp.
Anyone ever had a look at Bloodshores beach? agressive high level monsters you say? Ever check out the North east Shroud? High level agressive monstesr? Coerthas? Monsters!? Mor-Dhona can't be.....lvl 80 peists you say! The game has alot to offer us, and I feel some people just don't want to put the effort into seeing the sights and sounds of Eorzea.
I still think the strange crystal formation in Humble-hearth or the thaumaturgy shrines in Thanalan, or mysteriously un-usable purple aetherite streams are largely un-noted by the populace because they are afraid to look beyond their "Grind" -
08-12-2011, 05:23 PMEsk
Will read fully in the morning but from a quick look, it seems to be similar to my post on immersion/and giving the world some life.
Posting so i cant find it easy later -
08-12-2011, 05:34 PMHubert
I support this idea.
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08-12-2011, 05:42 PMFayette
People say they hate the shroud, that it is all copy/paste with winding passages. Yes it has long winding passages but did anyone ever stop to look? I was exploring up around the Five Hangs node near Bentbranch and the detail they put up there with the forest, the canopy, the water, flowers, heck there is even a dock up there and it has some gorgeous areas to just sit and relax. The water scenes around the dock there and around the bridges are beautiful places that I doubt many people ever bothered to explore. I just wish we could fish up there ^^
With the redesign of the maps they are doing, I just hope they leave those areas untouched because I would be very sad to see them changed just because of a few complaints!
More on topic: I would love some more animated objects around the world but I can see their reluctance to tax people's computers even more in loading such fluff. I do miss seeing some npc's walking around and outside town. In FFXI, Sandy had that little boy by the AH running back and forth and it also had the guards going up and down the paths to the other gate guards saying "All's clear" or something.
Maybe in the future they can add Chocobo carriages that move along the roads with NPC's on them and/or NPC's walking along the roads carrying things on their backs just to make the world feel more traveled. -
08-12-2011, 05:59 PMcamjayNo worries. In that interview that Reinhart translated, they definately state that they aren't just going to throw away the current towns and designs. They'll be overhauled yes, and largely redone, but I'm willing to bet the spots that are actually unique and enjoyable right now as they are will be left alone. And should be, obviously.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fayette
Anyway I agree wholeheartedly with this thread. Birds/non-attackable animals running and flying around would be really cool. Another thing I think would be neat to see in the future is a climbing system, and some rope ladders or just ladders scattered about throughout the world, allowing us to say, climb up the outside of a tower in Limsa Lominsa and see the view from the top, or just hang out up there. Haha... Yeah... Would be nice. Hopefully! We'll see.
As for your comment about the physics engine, as far as I know, there wouldn't be any sort of performance impact whether or not something was animating or stationary. The polys have to be rendered either way. The physics engine is already there, so utilizing it would just mean not wasting having the engine in place. Hopefully that made sense! Lol. 4 AM here.
Walking/whistling/wandering NPC's sounds like a great idea too! Good thinkin'. It all boils down to having a more realistic ambiance. And I support that 120%! -
08-12-2011, 07:14 PMTibianI am not saying vendor stalls have to be animated (100%) but why weren't they developed uniquely instead of just this regular copied "stall." Plus thats not the point of this thread, animated world objects is what the thread is about. Why aren't the ropes or hanging objects swaying just ever so slightly to add that extra boost and life to the stall. Why don't flags sway? Why don't the covers of every identical tent have ruffling waves?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynx
Not denying there aren't, but there are too few. I do enjoy "exploring just to explore," but sometimes you need those flavorful areas directly where the leveling is. There is very little of "cool and uniqueness" to the normal areas of the game. Ul'Dah is simply a motionless stone slab. So how do you make a stone slab city look alive? Add walking NPCs around the town, add some chocobo carts standing in the streets, make the ropes, canvas tents, flags, banners wave in the wind... add ANIMATIONS and non repeated objects. Animated objects, walking NPCs, non combat animals, even swaying flowers and grass would add so much MORE to these "slab" areas.Quote:
The field-areas themselves to do need more variaty and life though, from the monster who roam it to the land itself. There are some amazing locals within the game if you really look for them, it's a shame many of them are out of the way areas you don't visit often.
The world does feel similar, that is why the developers are redoing nearly the entire world... so I don't see the validity of your statement. Copy paste isn't that difficult either, and if you have looked at the maps and really explored as in depth as you claim, then you should realize that these similar/copy paste areas outnumber the very few (and sometimes barely unique) areas you are defending. Again.. many of these areas would benefit from animated grass, flowers, hell even blowing cotton... just something to make it less "STALE."Quote:
People who say the world feels too similar and flat doubtfully explore a whole lot. The developers poured alot of heart and soul into the detail of many areas and it has to be a massive knife in the back when a select few idiot say "Copy pasta!" without going further than the first road to the first camp.
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08-12-2011, 08:08 PMKirith
Developers redoing "the entire world" seems to be understood differently by each person mentioning it. As someone said above they won't scrap the whole world and make something instantly better, animated and memorable. It's going to be patch up work. If their engine allowed them to manage world objects' animations easily and they were capable of utilizing such feature efficiently, the current world wouldn't be as static to start with.
You also ought to realize that asking them to put a lot of dynamic world objects in the game is already asking something the current generation of mmorpgs hasn't really accomplished effectively. Then again, i feel the world of FFXI was already more dynamic and much more memorable than FFXIV's, starting with the way you board a ship... -
08-12-2011, 08:33 PMEugenics
Like the flags that don't move in the wind. Objects that don't cast shadows, dust strom outside the city walls but run into the city and its all calm. Lightning Strom on the boat but no wind or waves. I'll stop now i'm starting to sound like a broken record.
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08-13-2011, 01:57 AMPlatinumstormYou're blaming the engine instead of the developers who released a game with 18 quests and broken systems that have to be completely redone?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirith
Animations don't have to be blown out of proportion, btw. For example, placing some swaying trees in pots in Ul'dah, having guards walking from place to place, or a deliveryman taking supplies to the Grand Company, or making an animated ripple to the cloth in Ul'dah would help make it lose its "awkwardness".
Their redo of the world is going to be a lot more than "patch work," but I would assume they won't simply trash the assets they already have made.
"A few complaints," lol. I would say the world design is one of the primary reasons people quit the game. They definitely have some nice art assets, but far too few to make an interesting zone of that scale. Once those art assets are abused and placed over a gigantic territory, the repetitiveness of the entire zone comes into effect. Likely, the zones were also generated randomly by computers with very loose specifications, and simply touched up by devs. Keep in mind there's nothing wrong with reusing assets, but when you can open your map and point out every cave entrance, every ramp, and every tree layout, within a very close vicinity of you there is a massive problem with the world design. The art assets in the game likely won't disappear, as I said earlier, but expect many more and a nicer variety of artwork. The only zone that seems to truly have a variety of environments atm is Thanalan.Quote:
People say they hate the shroud, that it is all copy/paste with winding passages. Yes it has long winding passages but did anyone ever stop to look? I was exploring up around the Five Hangs node near Bentbranch and the detail they put up there with the forest, the canopy, the water, flowers, heck there is even a dock up there and it has some gorgeous areas to just sit and relax. The water scenes around the dock there and around the bridges are beautiful places that I doubt many people ever bothered to explore. I just wish we could fish up there ^^
With the redesign of the maps they are doing, I just hope they leave those areas untouched because I would be very sad to see them changed just because of a few complaints!
That's also hinted in the Famitsu interview for the new one too [as a run through by a computer is very common place], but could just be a translation thing.
As a side note I have no idea how this got turned into a "world design" thread, when it's simply about how adding in animation to the existing game or world revamp would help tons and add needed character to the game. -
08-13-2011, 03:04 AMJennestiaFor someone that refers to a redo being understood by people differently you seem to be a bit confused about something. If the engine allows player and monster models to be animated it allows objects to be animated, they're not completely interdependent of each other as it's all 1 animation system, but certain things can be handled by different functions. Crystal Tools allow animated objects (ever seen FF versus XIII footage? Or played XIII?) They just didn't fully utilize it for XIV.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirith
XIV just isn't optimized enough yet and still largely unfinished. -
08-13-2011, 03:18 AMZaireeka2025
Please yes, more animated objects like trees waving in the wind (very slightly animated), small critters running around, and NPC's/caravans walking the main routes in cities and fields!
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08-13-2011, 03:18 AMmiqokini
YES, PLEASE!!!!!!!
Even though FFXIV trumps FFXI in graphics, Vana'diel still feels far more 'alive' than Eorzea. And that's because of the animated objects. I loved the fact that there were tiny grasshoppers jumping about in bushes if you looked close enough, butterflies fluttering about, birds soaring high in the sky, fish jumping out of water, geysers, etc. Even the NPCs felt more 'alive' in XI.
I know the comparisons are always made between the two games, but it does make me a very sad panda that XI still does so many things better than XIV. I do have faith that Yoshi and his team will eventually address all these issues, and one day FFXIV will be far superior to XI. -
08-13-2011, 03:32 AMJennestiaWhich is exactly why, as many certain XIV zealots like to spout off, us that want a "FFXI-2" were mainly referring to how they'd take all that XI has done and made it better. For example think of the barge ride from Bibiki Bay > Puraggogo Island where the Dolphins follow you and leap about? That would have been beautiful in XIV's world as they could do much more with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by miqokini
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08-13-2011, 03:55 AMSeif
I have a smaller request: everything seems way too polished and new.
How is there absolutely no weather maps in the entire game? Just look at the beautifully dirty mason-work at bastok to see what this game is missing.
All of the pathways in LL (a structure that should take hundreds of years to build with this technology) looks like nobody has ever set foot in the town. The wood surfaces look dead like they haven't seen any locals walk on them leaving scratches or signs of life. The bridge that leads to a muddy field looks like perfectly polished stone that nobody has used.
The glass surfaces of the lamps look like they just flew out of a high-tech factory and haven't seen any rain in their life.
Ul'dah a city in a desert doesn't have any sand gathered in the any of the corners. Everything is pristine like the whole city just warped there in it's entirety just seconds ago.
Gridania a village in the woods has absolutely no vines growing on the side of the buildings. All of the floors of even the busiest guilds look just as new as the walls of the building. The bridge looks like nobody has ever walked on it and the fabrics of the stalls look like leaves never fall from the trees that completely block the sun.
This all gives of an eerie sterile feeling to the entire game like you just walked in to a half finished fake-movie set.
I hope the area re-design also includes tweaks to the textures so that the world that's supposed to have this deep history to it actually looks the part. -
08-13-2011, 05:40 AMKirithI am not confused, as i have experience with game development. I could waste an hour explaining my thoughts about how the engine works, but i'll just say that i have never seen an engine treat world objects and character objects in the same manner in a finalized, optimized game. If a sign you want to move and the house it's attached to are one mesh, you first need to separate them to make one animated. It then means the animation module must run for that one object AND its parent object in the world, so you need to make the sign its own object...this can cause trouble if your engine treats animated objects differently and you can only have a certain amount of such objects on screen at any given time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennestia
If the engine is optimized in a way that makes the static scenario effectively static it would be problematic to add much more life to it than what it already has. Sure, it surely mustn't be that hard to add a few animated objects here and there, but i definitely wouldn't expect for my impression of the world to change radically after said changes take place. -
08-13-2011, 05:51 AMSilvertearRen
The finer details of environment design helps bring the world to life. That is important to remember. Especially when you put it in the proper context.
So here's a basic shortlist of what we should like to see with the world overhaul:
- Animated Objects (Guylines, flags, trees swaying in the wind, etc)
- Established Routines for NPCs (Patrols, Chocobo Deliveries, etc)
- Randomized NPC encounters along major travel routes. (Imperial/Beastman ambushes, etc)
- Visual wear and tear on environment & objects. (Worn wooden floorboards, scuffed stone, dust/sand/dirt/junk gathering in corners, etc)
This is a very simplified list and should help the developers keep things simple. We don't want to have the devs try to do too many things all at once, or nothing would get finished.
What you want the most in FFXIV is a world that gives an atmosphere that feels like it's been "lived in" for millennia through the astral and umbral eras of yore. Here is a list of main sticking points on two major cities about the current art direction - this should at least point out the problems.
- Limsa Lominsa is supposed to be a city that has been lived in for a long time, yet it looks like it was built overnight (Rome was not built in a single night).
- Ul'dah was supposed to be a city that has existed for thousands of years as a major commerce hub, and also as a pit of scum and villainy. There are no indications of any of this - the stones look freshly-laid, there are no scuff marks on the pathways leading into and out of Ul'dah...and the Gladiator Arena itself looks spotless, when there should be a lot of dirt and grime all over the place indicative of thousands of battles waged.
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08-13-2011, 06:04 AMMunba
Agree with OP, Eorzea lacking in this department. Hope in a fresh wind of life everywhere when the redesign will take place. And trees and brushes moving too subtle when the strong wind blows.
Yeah, same sensation as well..Quote:
Originally Posted by Seif
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08-13-2011, 07:52 AMTezz_Xivectro
There should be dragons flying in the sky shooting fire at garlean airships near/around Coerthas!
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08-13-2011, 09:36 AMJennestiaI think that battle is long over lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tezz_Xivectro
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08-13-2011, 02:13 PMTibianYes, it might be over but seeing something like this in the future for one of their "instances" might be pretty cool.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennestia
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09-24-2011, 05:57 AMPayadopa
I support the OP. On the other hand, I think it also has something to do with the lack in numbers player base wise.
With more PCs moving around the game would automatically feel much more lively. It's kind of sad to see a town square/ market that's supposed to be teaming with life almost deserted. I'm looking at you, Gridania. :(