Quite a while back the devs released this information.
Elements
Increases damage dealt by attacks of that element
Reduces damage taken from attacks of the opposing element
We know, wind beats fire, fire beats ice, and ice beats wind.
And that earth beats thunder, thunder beats water, and water beats thunder.
So when we see opposing elements, I and several others (friends, posts, blogs, etc) were under the impression that wind increased fire resistance.
But, now with the summer event, the swim suits offer fire resistance but instead of wind, we find water. Could you please stop being so confusing about the elemental system and just release what does what. The other offensive/defensive mechanics are not near as confusing.
Right now the system goes forward backwards and side ways.
___(Defensive)
_____Water
_______V
Wind > Fire > Ice (offensive)
_______V
______????
Maybe it's just me, but this is way to complex for a game that is trying to appeal more to a casual crowd, and even complicates the 11 system.
Confusing elements, Devs please clarrify
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08-12-2011, 07:53 AMAkuunConfusing elements, Devs please clarrify
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08-12-2011, 07:58 AMArcell
I was under the impression it was:
Wind > Fire > Ice > Wind
Earth > Lightning > Water > Earth
Astral = Wind, Fire, Lightning
Umbral = Water, Earth Ice
Very strange that they would put water + on a fire resistant suit. Do you think the devs forgot which game they're playing? :p -
08-12-2011, 08:04 AMAkuun
Well it definitely explains why when we used to farm the goblin NM pumping up wind for defense seemed to have no effect.
At the time we wrote it off as the stat system not affecting things enough. (same as str to damage etc.) -
08-12-2011, 08:14 AMAkuun
If we go by this chart SE published over a year ago, and interpret opposing quite literally.
http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/...k/elements.jpg
water>fire>water
earth>wind>earth
ice>lightning>ice
So pretty confusing
The whole umbral and astral is equally confusing, since they use elements from both offensive charts -
08-12-2011, 08:29 AMArcell
Mind explaining to me what this is all about then? Because people have been stating this as fact since beta >.>
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08-12-2011, 08:39 AMAkuun
That would be the offensive elemental chart, at least going by this revelation of water defends against fire.
Say, you're fighting a fire elemental.
You would use wind based spells for least resistance and most damage.
It was thought that wind was also the stat to pump for defense, but now it seems that it's water, not wind.
So wind for damage, water for defense, at least against fire. -
08-12-2011, 08:42 AMHolyomen
This is why I leave my elements at base. I have yet to see elements make a difference in defense.
The only effect I've seen is casting the right or wrong spells on mobs.
Like Aero II on a wisp for more damage.
What's really frustrating is weapon skills with an element only being negatively impacted.
If you were to use Iron Tempest(Wind) on a Sundrake(Fire) with your Wind at 174 it would do the same damage if you used it on a goblin with your wind at 15.
But if you were to use Red Lotus(Fire) on a Sundrake(Fire) your damage would be reduced.
Hopefully once Physical Levels are removed and stats are fixed, it will fix elements as well. -
08-12-2011, 08:49 AMAkuun
Agreed Holyomen, though it would be nice if one of the reps could get us an answer if this whole offensive/defensive charts use two different systems unlike 11's
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08-12-2011, 08:53 AMVydarrTyrAs I understand it, that chart is correct. There are "dusty tomes" in the mage guilds that talk about the elemental relationships.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcell
Again, I think you're right here. Umbral = elements you can hold in your hand. Astral = elements you can't hold in your hand.Quote:
Astral = Wind, Fire, Lightning
Umbral = Water, Earth Ice
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08-12-2011, 08:54 AMEstellios
Wind > Fire > Ice > Wind and Earth > Thunder > Water > Earth is actually supported by in-game manuals. I'm fairly certain the swimsuit water affinity boost and water damage cut is just a nod to the fact that swimsuits are for use in water and not really to be taken seriously >.>
If there was any sort of "Defensive" element chart it would be mentioned in game and it would make things overly confusing anyway. Boosting your wind affinity makes you stronger both offensively (element-wise) and defensively to fire, its just that the stats aren't working correctly. -
08-12-2011, 08:56 AMAkuunNice, that's an easy way to remember which elements make up which.Quote:
Originally Posted by VydarrTyr
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08-12-2011, 09:00 AMAkuunThis is the line from the festival details that creates the confusion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Estellios
2. Faire chaperones will ask you to take part in the Bombard hunt, and provide you with special heat-resistant swimsuits.
Add to this that SE said Opposing Element for defense against that damage type, and that water is actually opposite fire on the chart, well it's seems to all be stacking up to more than a conspiracy theory lol. -
08-12-2011, 09:04 AMEstellios
That stuff is just flavor text... When the weather is hot you wear less clothes... so they are "heat-resistant"
That "chart" doesn't have any arrows or anything so you could easily interpret it as being circular, and it's on the terribly outdated official site where pugilists have Steal. -
08-12-2011, 09:12 AMVydarrTyrYeah, I took it the same way. It's a bathing suit, so they gave it "water" affinity. :) And since the bomb doesn't really seem to attack anyone, being strong against Fire doesn't really matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Estellios
I think the confusion comes from the fact that one of the NPCs said you'd get a special heat resistant suit (the bathing suit) before escorting the bomb. So people are assuming that the "water" affinity makes you resistant to fire.
But I will also point out that the only mobs that seem to attack are chigoes, and not the bomb. I believe that chigoes are Earth-based. So if we're right, then increasing your water-affinity will help defeat the chigoes, because Water > Earth.
Eorzeapedia agrees with your (and my) understanding of how it works (Ltg increases defense against Water; so Wind increases defense against Fire). But wouldn't mind getting a dev to weigh in because of the confusion.
And more importantly -- Estellios! /wave -
08-12-2011, 09:13 AMAkuun
Estellios, that's exactly the reason for this thread, to get some answers as to how the elemental system works. To many possibilities and mostly speculation at this point to draw any answers.
The only thing that seems to be confirmed from in game info is the offensive triangles. -
08-12-2011, 09:26 AMEstellios
Hey Vydarr =) Get your swimsuit if you haven't already =P
Like Vydarr said, I think it's the wording of the event text that is confusing. If there was separate elemental triangles there would be mention of it in the game. The way the elemental triangle is meant to work is that it is supposed to make you outright better at fighting certain things and worse at others depending on your affinity, so it makes no sense for there to be another triangle.
I've also fought many an elemental and i can safely say that water resisting fire and vice versa is false, and the elemental enemies are easily the best way to prove that the triangles as explained in-game are how elements work.