Suggestions concerning the raid loot distribution system

Should this belong into another topic of the forum I would appreciate if a moderator can move it over. Looking at the forums structure I found this place to be most befitting but if I am mistaken I deeply apologize.

Prologue

Before reading this I want to make sure to bring to your awareness that while I might quote examples from my own experience the conclusions I'll try to draw have an improvement for the entire playerbase in mind and are in no way intended to be interpreted as what's coloquially referred to as "whining". The players that raid in the recient raid contents of every patch are probably in unison that the loot system needs a workover and this is just one of a few suggestions I whipped up that could at least make the situation a bit more bearable.

An Example of what can go wrong

Our raid group works hard on clearing the current raid content (The Final Coil of Bahamut) - let it be farming crafted gear and melding it, capping on poetics every week or supplying the party with various potions and meals. Many other groups are doing the same obviously.

We've cleared T10-12 so far and are looking to work on Turn 13, outside of guaranteed drops like Carboncoat, Carbontwine and the Encrypted Tomestone we recieved 18 Dreadwyrm gear items, however...

- 5 Maiming and 2 Striking Gearpieces have dropped while we neither have a Dragoon or Monk in our group.
- 3 Gearpieces have already dropped repeatedly, including another Maiming gearpiece. While one of the two serves limited usefulness, two of the three are yet again useless to the group in any way or shape.

This already makes only 10 of 18 looted items, more than gets distributed in a week, over the course of 4 weeks, in any way useful to our partys progression.

I'm sure this has happened to other groups as well in a smaller or greater scope and the most irritating part about the situation is that the only remedy people have is to wait a whole week in which you can't enjoy these battles anymore until the next lockout only to have a slight shot at a better drop.

While I don't ask for a loot wonderland, I'd like to present a few possibilities that at least give the group a second chance or more variety to progress.

Before we dive into the suggestions

These suggestions are only really worth considering while a weekly lockout is issues on the mentioned content. My motive for bringing these suggestions to the table is that Final Fantasy XIV advertises itself with the Armory System that allows every class to be played on a single character. While you can master all crafters and gatherers it is impossible to vary much on classes you progress with in the current raid/gear tier. Raid groups very commonly require you to invest your Allagan Tomestones of Poetics into the class you're raiding with and since it can sometimes take weeks over weeks for any item to drop for some classes it often results in having to buy more Poetics items for one class than you really need, making it very hard to get poetics to spare for your other classes and also makes raid compositions very stiff as players are limited to the one class they could afford the token gear for so far even if they could bring the skill in other classes to the table as well if they only had the gear to support it.

Suggestion #1 - A Reloot System

Once per cleared turn, once the loot list has been generated, the party leader can elect one of the two gear drops for a reloot, should all party members agree with the leader's proposal, another treasure chest will appear which shares the loot table from the relooted chest and can contain anything but the item that was initially relooted. Once relooted theres no option to reloot again nor reloot the other treasure coffer as well.

The following rules would apply:
- The party leader may only select one of the two items for a reloot.
- The party needs to vote in absolute unison to accept a reloot. Should a single party member decline the proposal, the regular loot will be distributed.
- After a failed reloot, the party leader may not propose a reloot on the other item. The classic 'Need or Greed' system will then be carried out as usual.

This would give the party a second chance to obtain something that is useful for anybody while still making progression not too much faster and keeping a decent amount of RNG involved.

Suggestion #2 - A Loot Selection System

Discarded as being too similar to the above suggestion.

Once a turn has been cleared, instead of generating 2 gearitems in the loot list, 4 items get generated instead. However prior to the distribution per need and greed, the party issues 2 votes per party member on which 2 of the 4 pieces should be kept for the need and greed and which items should be discarded prior. The discarded items can not be claimed by anyone while the other two items then get distributed over the already existing system.

This way the party can select which of the items are more useful to the raid and while this might cause agony for a player or two if 4 perfectly wonderful items should appear they can rest in knowing that it shouldnt be too soon until they can issue their vote to claim the item the next time. Since most of the enhancement items usually go to DPS to meet the DPS check requirements of new turns this could serve as a system to help Healers and Tanks also get a little something every once in a while to sense progression as well.

Epilogue

First off, thanks for reading. If you have any suggestions yourself or would like to improve on what I brought to the table you are very welcome to reply to this thread and share your thoughts on the issue.

I think the reloot idea shouldn't be majority, but unanimous. Can you imagine the poor sap in PF who finally sees his desired item drop, only to have 6 members from the same FC vote for reloot, which passes?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amelia_Pond_Behemoth

I think the reloot idea shouldn't be majority, but unanimous. Can you imagine the poor sap in PF who finally sees his desired item drop, only to have 6 members from the same FC vote for reloot, which passes?

---

We're holding the same discussion on reddit to increase the amount of people that can refine a potentially good idea to a really good one and already established that reloot should only occur in unison - I should've updated that there as well. Thanks for the heads up!

I'd rather have a token system than relooting or picking drops tbh.
Something like an allagan token collected after each boss kill which would allow you to buy a gear piece dropping from a boss you already killed.

Let's say something like 8 tokens for a small part (accessories/belt/shield) 12 for a medium (gloves/head/boots) and 16 for a bigger one (chest/legs)

Ofc weapons wouldnt be buyable since you can already get poetics ones.

This system would allow you to overcome the RNG and be quite fair imo (2-4 times a full FCoB clear for a part). The main point would be that you can only buy parts dropping from boss you already have killed

I like the way it is now. Opening the chests are the best moments of every raid night :D

I believe the current loot system is fine. Please do not change anything.

People who want it to be easier should just man up and not expect everything get served on a silver platter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sanzei

I believe the current loot system is fine. Please do not change anything.

People who want it to be easier should just man up and not expect everything get served on a silver platter.

---

Sorry, but I think as someone who doesn't even have the Second Coil of Bahamut cleared at this stage you don't really have much to contribute as you don't seem to be aware how much work there is behind trying to clear the Final Coil of Bahamut with our current gearstate only to be "rewarded" with loot that isnt equippable by any of the attending players classes. Also if you would've given proper thought to what I proposed you would realize this doesnt serve anything on a "silver platter", especially with how properly challenging it is to clear the Final Coil of Bahamut at the current state.

We are on t9 atm so no I'm not at FCoB yet but so what? I have plenty of endgame experience from other MMO's. If you want a real pain in the ass you should have experienced vanilla wow endgame where you have 40 ppl in one raid fighting over the drops, and even then it wasn't too much. People who complain about this are the people who want to be prepared to hit the new content immediately but do not want to spend the effort to actually get the loot. Stop being a bunch of loothungry scrubs.

Well, at fan fest they did say that a token type system would be coming for heavens ward raids. Details to be determined... Please look forward to it!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sanzei

We are on content that isn't behind a lockout but so what?

---

I think I found the problem. It took me over 30 weeks to get my last drop in SCoB.

As the above poster said, they did mention some kind of token system for 3.0.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jaeifer

Since most of the enhancement items usually go to DPS to meet the DPS check requirements of new turns this could serve as a system to help Healers and Tanks also get a little something every once in a while to sense progression as well.

---

You're turning it from 1-2 loot enhancement items going to the DPS and 2 items potentially going to anyone to 3-4 items going to DPS. The only time tanks and healers would "sense progression" would be when all the DPS have all the drops they want from a turn or in the extreme outlying case of all items voted over being healer and tank items. Hardly "a little something every once in a while" for half the group.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grayve

Well, at fan fest they did say that a token type system would be coming for heavens ward raids. Details to be determined... Please look forward to it!

---

This is really the only system that makes sense going forward. Does it reward PF/DF abusers by allowing them to need on tokens for gear they already have (and use for secondary jobs/classes)? Yes, but I'd rather deal with that than having almost half of your drops in progression content go to waste.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sanzei

Stop being a bunch of loothungry scrubs.

---

Gotta love the vitriol.

@OP: I may be a coil behind, but I can understand your idea, and where the desire comes from. I like the re-loot idea you laid out as well. Nice presentation, I'd support this.

How about making Reloot-Tokens purchaseable in the Cash Shop :D :D :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sanzei

Stop being a bunch of loothungry scrubs.

---

So far you have nothing worthwhile to say. The point of coil is to get loot. As someone who "mains" Alchemist, you probably don't understand. Especially considering that you probably ignored coil until it was farm able.

@Jaeifer however, I like the reloot idea. However, I also think it should be unanimous. And yes, only available once on that chest for the night. So every clear, each chest can be relooted once. While i was doing 2nd coil, i got all my caster gear rather quickly, but our Bard got shoes, gloves, belt, and nothing else. Reloot would have helped a lot.

I think its a decent idea compared to the RNG crap we currently have. One of my buddies statics had healer gear drop every time they cleared... couple this with the lockout.. and you being to fall behind rather quickly when you are getting a saturation of loot that goes to waste. Considering they already implemented a stupid lockout system I think it only fair to provide a way to get gear that only coincides with the classes in the party. So if you dont have a DRG or MNK.. then no DRG or MNK gear will drop.

Thank you, OP. I actually came to the forum today to complain about the loot system.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sanzei

I believe the current loot system is fine. Please do not change anything.

People who want it to be easier should just man up and not expect everything get served on a silver platter.

---

I would really like the dev team to read the above post, see how much everyone hates what's said in the above post, and then realize that their current philosophy pretty much mirrors the above post (which is hated).

Current raid loot is distributed with the wrong-headed idea that the most enjoyable part, the most "challenging" part, is RANDOMLY getting the correct item. I'm not sure if it's a cultural thing for Japan, or what, but for me, and for I'm sure most people, constantly attempting to win the lottery in a video game is not the "fun" part. The fun part is clearing the content.

To be clear, RANDOMLY WINNING A DROP IS NOT "HARD". It should not be considered part of the "challenged". No one is asking to be "spoon fed". If you can win a raid 20 times in a row, what more do you have to prove? You can do it. You did it. Now give the person the drop already. At least something. How are you supposed to think you're supposed to farm earlier turns to gear up for later turns when you never get anything you want from any of the turns? Current system is busted.

To mirror what another poster said in this thread, I had the following experience with loot in Second Coil of Bahamut:

I was extremely unlucky with caster drops when doing Coil before the lockout was lifted. Even though I was the only caster, I only got maybe one usable piece ever, the whole time. After 2.4 (or actually I think only since 2.41), I've kept track of how many times I've won Turn 6.

After 29 wins, I finally saw the caster neck drop for the first time. Won lot against one other person.

After 31 wins, I finally saw the caster ring drop for the first time. Uncontested lot.

To put that in perspective, if I'd done that before the lockout was lifted, assuming there are 4.33 weeks in a month, it would have taken me a little over 7 months of farming Turn 6, winning every week, to finally get my loot. 7. Months.

Does that seem ridiculous to anyone on the dev team? Imagine if there were actually 2 casters on my team. Farm for a year+ to get the stuff for both of us? Seriously?

I got pretty excited when games like WildStar said they'd have tokens that you could use to purchase raid items, if and only if you'd cleared the content they are associated with. I was hoping FFXIV would have a similar system when they said there would be tokens and also raid drops -- instead we have 2 sets for every job, one token one raid, with roughly 50% of each set being total garbage so you need to get both... What? I'd rather you guys have an NPC you buy the gear at, but you can only get it if you beat the raid its tied to, and have everything drop currency. There was even stuff like this in FFXI. If you want to add in the "challenge" back, I guess make it so you need to clear the raid 5 times to buy the loot, because lol I guess. Pretty much anything besides the current lottery system, and definitely don't put any 1% drop rate nonsense like you did for "rare items" like primal mounts.

Sorry, separate post because separate thought:

I in no way agree with the suggestions in the OP. I think they are overly complicated, anyway. Making everything into tokens, or tokens + random drops, is a more elegant solution, and one that should be embraced by the dev team, rather than the current lottery system (which seems to be embraced because people have the incorrect notion that most people are really looking for the "rush" of getting that low chance drop, when really they want to clear the content and be adequately rewarded).

The system should be consistent, coil just do what the same as other dungeons.
Tome is what the token, that's why tome gear and "raid" gear have same iLV.

I object OP both suggestions as it is customized for specific purpose but ignoring entire system consistency.
I will suggest just make the loot same as i90 loot form ex-dungeons, the player get an item for exchanging the real gear of his desired job.
By this way the loot system will be consistent and, prolly everyone will want to get every drop then. ^^;