Master Book II Lottery

It seems to me that the Master Book II lottery may be the straw that breaks the camels back with me and FFXIV.

I can successfully craft a balanced darksteel hook every time I try if so desired. The problem is getting a HQ item. I now have 1 HQ and 20 NQ sitting in my inventory after at least 50 attempts (reclaim). None of my attempts at actually finishing a rotation were made with less than 12% HQ chance the highest being 20%.

I know things need to have randomness but this is ridiculous.

I'd rather save time and buy lottery tickets for 100k gil and press one button to try for a HQ than continue to waste so many hours on rng that is rigged so badly.

i have been working on these books for a while too and its ridiculous rng!!! i hate to say it but most of my HQ came at around 18% ...
after spending millions on off hands, materia, new hands, feet ,legs and then gearing all up to be the best i could for the 4 star book attempts to find the horrible rng at this is making me cry. i have done every book except cooking and alchemy so far... and spent hours on each book and got to the point if i got to 10 stacks i just went for it and hoped for hell sometimes its worked and sometimes it hasn't. the cooking book so far i have gotten 6 attempts at 47% upto 85% and every single one of them turned out nq... thats when i had to walk away from trying for a while

Mine HQ'd @ ~ 80% I don't have my Supra's. I got the mats for 8 synths, before I had reclaim, and I crafted 8 items, for both BSM and ARM, 3 turned out HQ for each class.

The bane of my existence is Wootz Ingots hahaha. Trying to HQ those can be sooo painful. That being said, I realised I don't need HQ Ingots, and once I realised that my life got much better.

mishini are you reclaiming every time you dont get good/excelent at 10+ stacks? i have only gotten 2 times that has been over 80%

may i ask your rotation?? i am at 452 craftsmanship 424 control and 395 CP

(i slip in tricks of the trade where its appropriate)
Comfort Zone,
Inner quiet,
Peice by Peice x 2,
Ingenuity II,
Steady Hand II,
Rapid synthesis x 2,
Hasty touch until Steady Hand II runs out 10-20 dura
Comfort Zone,
Master Mand II at 10 or 20 durability,
waste not,
Steady Hand II,
Hasty Touch x 5,
repeat Steady Hand II hasty touch until 15 durability
if normal or good,
great strides,
if good or excellent then
Byregot's Blessing careful sysnthesis II to finish it
if not good or excellent reclaim

You're typically not gonna get a rate higher than 30% unless you land BB's on a good (in which case it'd jump to 80%) or excellent (100%)...and that's assuming you didn't mess up too many hasty touches and got at least 8 stacks.

The game's lately been messing with me for RNG too. And it's only for 3-4 star craft; my reclaims fail and I still NQ around 82% consistently.

If you haven't HQ'd in 50 attempts, with no attempt greater than 12% you seriously need to re-examine your method/rotation. These are definitely possible to HQ without supra tools and without any of the new 2.4 gear. My suggestion would be to try to come up with a better method. There is NO set rotation to these crafts. You need to react to what you're given. I seriously LOL at 95% of the "rotations" I see posted on these forums or on reddit.

Sorry, but I agree with the above poster.

It's not the system, but your crafting that needs improving. :/

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Originally Posted by chrillix

If you haven't HQ'd in 50 attempts, with no attempt greater than 12% you seriously need to re-examine your method/rotation. These are definitely possible to HQ without supra tools and without any of the new 2.4 gear. My suggestion would be to try to come up with a better method. There is NO set rotation to these crafts. You need to react to what you're given. I seriously LOL at 95% of the "rotations" I see posted on these forums or on reddit.

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I liked this post, and the post beneath it. for my 3* and 4* Crafts, I picked "Rotations" from these forums, I looked at why they work, tried them out, found out they aren't flawless, looked at why they don't work, and made changes / made them my own.

Comfort Zone,
Inner quiet
Waste not ** I do not use ToT until after Waste not ends.
Steady Hand II
Peice by Peice x 2 (If Good or Ex, I Hasty Touch, and do a PbP after)
Hasty Touch until SH2 wears off
If 2 Comfort Zone remains, Careful Synthesis II
Refresh CZ
Refresh SH2
Hasty touch until Steady Hand II runs out 5-15 dura
Master Mand II
-> What I do next really depends on how the SYnth has gone so far. If I've broken 2 or more Hasty Touches, I'll probably Reclaim. If I don't think I've gotten enough ToT, I'll Reclaim. Mind you, when I was doing My mastery books, I didn't have Reclaim even. I would just push forward and hope for the best.
->Let's say I haven't gotten a lot of ToT, I'm probably really low on CP, not enough for end rotation, and I should be around 6 or 7 stacks of IQ. I'might CS2 a couple times, to try and get a good condition, to get another ToT. If I do get one, I'll either Reclaim, or I'll go for it, SH2, Great Strides or BB if Ex, ingenuity II or BB if Good/Ex, Innovation, or BB on Good/Ex, CS2 (Make sure I'm not completing the synth), if I still don't have a good, and I haven't reclaimed, if I don't have a lot of stacks, I'll reclaim. If I have a lot of stack sof IQ, I'll just BB anyway, nd finish the synth as best I can.

Hopefully that helps, but not verything in crafting can be put into an easy 1-touch macro. This stuff which is more challenging to synth is intended to be a challenge, and has taught me to be more and more flexible with my rotations.

If you're using WN, you're praying for Excellent at the right time.

Go for 2 MMIIs, and if you don't get at least 6-7 ToT procs reclaim and try again.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

If you're using WN, you're praying for Excellent at the right time.

Go for 2 MMIIs, and if you don't get at least 6-7 ToT procs reclaim and try again.

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Praying for an Excellent, or a Good condition, and making the best with what I have if it doesn't come.

Are you saying you just go through MM2 a second time, and when you get 11 stacks you just keep going / blow our BB on an excellent condition should it show itself?

Lots of varying advice. Lets just take a poll of how much FC3s it took you guys for your masterbooks

For me,

ARM: 10 FC3s
LTW: 10 FC3s
GSM: 12 FC3s
CUL: 12 FC3s
ALC: 18 FC3s (Bad luck here)

Rotation is this http://i.imgur.com/H1FkdFL.png

Technically speaking Rapid Synthesis rotations have a slight edge on HQ chance, but they take twice as long to do before you know if you have to reclaim or not.

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Originally Posted by chrillix

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This is pretty much the case, unless your luck is really really bad that you have only 2 hasty touch sucesses. The CP demand is really high to fit in enough durability restorations and the BB finisher.

The way I have done it, I've always opened up with the usual (CZ and IQ), and my crafts with my current stat takes 2 PbP, 1 rapid syn and 1 CSII to finish. After that, I'd use SHII with HT or TotT depending on the situation, refresh CZ when possible, and MMII when its optimal.

No matter what rotation you used (I've tried em all), the end result is you are at the mercy of RNG. I have had wildly varying results with my FCIII usage per book, and have at the moment what I feel is a pretty solid (and flexible depending on how it goes) rotation. And yet my most recent book was by far my worst. So it goes.

For what it's worth, here is my success rate with these accursed tomes:

1. CRP - 6 wasted FCIII's
2. BSM - 0 wasted FCIII's
3. WVR - 2 wasted FCIII's
4. GSM - 4 wasted FCIII's
5. LTW - 8 wasted FCIII's
6. ARM - 22 wasted FCIII's

I have only improved my rotation since my Carpenter book, and yet my ARM run was just god awful, with ridiculously bad luck across the board (low Hasty/Rapid success, low ToT proc rate, numerous failed reclaims, high % chances that still nq'd, etc). Also, simple human error where I pushed the wrong button or took a dumb risk I shouldn't have has probably accounted for at least a fourth of my wasted FCIII's. Shit happens when you've been at a book for over half an hour and are seething with unmitigated fury at RNJezebel.

I will be doing my ALC book today, and I expect many tears.

EDIT: Many tears were had indeed, but I managed to balance the usual ridiculously impossible bad luck with a couple strokes of good luck and wasted 8 FCIII's for my ALC book. One more book left and the worst thing ever added to this game will be behind me.

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Originally Posted by Mishini_Dracoto

Are you saying you just go through MM2 a second time, and when you get 11 stacks you just keep going / blow our BB on an excellent condition should it show itself?

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Pretty much, with 2 MMIIs you are looking at 12-14 shots at Hasty Touch. If you don't have enough CP to do your final run or didn't hit enough Hasties, then Reclaim out.

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Originally Posted by Lebenoshl

Lots of varying advice. Lets just take a poll of how much FC3s it took you guys for your masterbooks

For me,

ARM: 10 FC3s
LTW: 10 FC3s
GSM: 12 FC3s
CUL: 12 FC3s
ALC: 18 FC3s (Bad luck here)

Rotation is this http://i.imgur.com/H1FkdFL.png

Technically speaking Rapid Synthesis rotations have a slight edge on HQ chance, but they take twice as long to do before you know if you have to reclaim or not.

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I didn't have supras when I made mine, so the only FCIIIs I wasted were on failed reclaims. I wound up with 1-5 NQ in each synth when I hit 3 HQ.

I wasn't keeping track but I would estimate about 20-25 failed reclaims between all 8 books, but only 4 or 5 total on my last four books.

I think Rapid is overrated for normal synths, but since these are swing for the fences style it can helpful.

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Originally Posted by Lebenoshl

Technically speaking Rapid Synthesis rotations have a slight edge on HQ chance, but they take twice as long to do before you know if you have to reclaim or not.

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I do something like your guide picture, but, I do things in a different order.

Edit around 100 char limit:

I do the following and take ALL ToT that come up regardless of timing and refresh CZ when down (after using ToT of course):
CZ
IQ
SH2
PbPx2
RSx2 (refresh SH2 if needed)
HT if SH2 is up, otherwise 1 cs2 (leaves me with 3 progress)
sh2 ht until 10 dura
mm2

Now here I will sh2 ht until 20 dura (refresh cz if 220 or more cp and 40 or more dura)
at 20 durability mm2 repeat as necessary
HT until 20 durability if you don't have enough cp for sh2 (use sh2 if you get a tot right away) or sh2 ht until 30 durability
reclaim if under 10 stacks or else finish (how you finish depends on goods/cp/etc. I will try to sh2>ht>gs>innovation>BB then cs2, bb if good or excellent pops though.

There have been times when I have had copious ammounts of CP and will just mm2 again to build more quality already having 11 stacks. Generally I use reclaim 1-2 times for each successful attempt. For 3 star artisan tools you can drop 1 pbp and a cs2.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lebenoshl

Lots of varying advice. Lets just take a poll of how much FC3s it took you guys for your masterbooks

For me,

ARM: 10 FC3s
LTW: 10 FC3s
GSM: 12 FC3s
CUL: 12 FC3s
ALC: 18 FC3s (Bad luck here)

Rotation is this http://i.imgur.com/H1FkdFL.png

Technically speaking Rapid Synthesis rotations have a slight edge on HQ chance, but they take twice as long to do before you know if you have to reclaim or not.

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I actually still don't have any Supras, so this is very ambiguous. I bought the materials to craft m Supra, as well as get my Mastercraft II book. That requires 8 items / 16 FC3's. Since I didn't waste any, I can technically say 6?

ARM: 6
BSM: 6
GSM: 6

& I'll be doing this on LTW in the near future.

If we're expected to HQ 4-star items, Hasty Touch + Steady Hand II need to add up to 100% success rate. 80% is obviously not enough with this RNG system.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

If we're expected to HQ 4-star items, Hasty Touch + Steady Hand II need to add up to 100% success rate. 80% is obviously not enough with this RNG system.

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I.e. you want a 100% macro for the highest tier of crafting?

This is nonsense tbh, the highest tier of crafting should require both skill and some luck.

Any good 4* crafter will have a very very high HQ rate and the difficulty if anything if too easy already for 4*, especially those where you can start on 2.7k quality from all HQ mats.

Fitting 2 MMII in the rotation is extremely helpful but you need good luck on the ToTs if i dont get 2 MMIIs in i usually just reclaim. The below was posted in the other thread about master books



CZ
IQ
SH II
PbP x2
Ingenuity 2
Rapid Synthesis x2 (if one of these failed, I continued knowing I could reclaim or use the NQ for supra later)
CS II (make sure you're only 1 CS II away from completion now)
(Reapply CZ as soon as it wears)
SH II
Hasty Touches
MM II
SH II + Hasty Touches
(Reapply CZ somewhere in here)
MM II
(Reapply CZ again if possible. At this point I would sometimes only have ~20 CP, but 80 dura left and a fresh CZ up. This is okay, so long as you had good ToT procs)
SH II + Hasty Touches
At 20 durability, do the typical BB finisher. This is highly dependent upon how lucky you got with ToTs. One time I was only able to do GS + BB, another time I managed to get GS, Innovation, Ingenuity II, and BB on a good. This is where you'll have to judge for yourself, and also decide if you want to reclaim or not.
CS II to finish it off

Also to note at 461 craftmanship you can replace a Rapid with a CSII to save you some rng anger

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hayward

If we're expected to HQ 4-star items, Hasty Touch + Steady Hand II need to add up to 100% success rate. 80% is obviously not enough with this RNG system.

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haha \10char

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hayward

If we're expected to HQ 4-star items, Hasty Touch + Steady Hand II need to add up to 100% success rate. 80% is obviously not enough with this RNG system.

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4* crafting is fine for the most part, at least the ones that utilize HQ-able materials. Items like the new offhands and the master II books which get incredibly diluted because of the demimateria requirements aren't, especially the master II books.

Rice . . . The New Off hands are only 3*, and don't have any Demimateria, just Sealant? If you can't HQ a 3* Synth by now. . . . go home =] lol.

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Originally Posted by Mishini_Dracoto

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I'm referring to crafts that have their total starting quality decreased by dilution because of non-HQable materials, not the star difficulty associated with it.

x6 sealants is diluting the quality increase that you'd only get 700~/4.9k (or was it 900? it definitely was not over 1k). I can finish a 3* craft in 4 steps (which involves 2 rapid synthesis, so now there's RNG), so the rest is for quality. That's at least 12 steps for quality because assuming I don't get additional CP from TotT, I can fit one MMII (or 2 if I forego using SHII for my hasty touches). I need 10 of those 12 quality increases to be successful increases to get 10 stacks of IQ and have a final HQ rate of 94%, unless I land/fish for a good on my final BB finisher).

Using bb with 9 stacks instead of 10 drops my HQ rate down to 798, which aren't very good odds considering reclaim is 90%, and as far as my server is considered, a NQ tool is worth less than the materials (sealants) required to make it and doesn't help too much to get the stats required for 4* crafting.

And I'm speaking mostly of crafts that have their quality pool diluted by non-HQable materials...I had a much much easier time HQing my kirimu coat (4*) than I did HQing the leather itself or even the offhands (3*) because of the aforementioned quality dilution.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

If you're using WN, you're praying for Excellent at the right time.

Go for 2 MMIIs, and if you don't get at least 6-7 ToT procs reclaim and try again.

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not necessarily. i use wn when i do the turn ins and i never count on excellent. i shoot for 10 stacks and a good, which is not totally uncommon if you use observe or throw an innovation in to try to get a good to pop. in the 7 classes ive mastered, only 2 gave me some trouble, but i was still perfecting my rotation and when to do certiain abilities. 5 classes i mastered, i used 8 fieldcraft 3s on average per class.

im the type to risk it to, like letting sh fall off when im about to bb if it means that i can possibly get a good to proc. way i look at it, the non SH BB is the same rng as reclaim. on top of that, i only need 2 TOT. this means all the other hastys i can hit on good condition, meaning more quality.


but yea, you basically need at least a good to pop, because even with 11 stacks, normal is not good enough. highest i got was around 30% with a normal 11 stack iq, and that was with full melds new offhand and supra.

Some tips:
- when you get to the end of the synth, don't have your progress bar needing 1 hit of synthesis. Have 2. This lets you bait a good/excellent for an extra turn.
- Configure your cross-class so you can use Innovation. Don't rely on SH1 for the end. If short on CP, use Innovation instead. Why? If you are willing to risk a 10% chance on reclaim failing, you can risk 10% on BB failing. Of course, if you have the CP for SH1 as well, use it.
- I'm sure most people have already said this, pop Reclaim at the point where you'd start your finisher if you don't have enough stacks. If I don't have 10, I reclaim.

My first master II book was a pain. Learned a lot. Most of my books since? Reclaims aside, I go 3/3. I did all of them with the new artisan tool (melded) but no supra and no artisan mitts/legs/feet.

http://i.imgur.com/ddsUhSS.png

You learn alot about crafting making these. First run at them was a bit of a learning experience, but I still managed to go 3 in 7, and the 4 NQ went towards Supra. For the books after, it isn't difficult to hit 70%+ on HQ chance. The one pictured here has been my single excellent finish, but I've hit 90%+ several times.

I rather like the gating for crafting.

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

[IMG]...

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43 Steps though; just how many TotT procs did you get to prolong your craft for that long? Not to mention that you even said that it was an excellent. There's nothing "difficult" about having RNG line up with you; I barely go past 22 steps because I can't fit more than 1 MMII on average without more than 2 TotT procs, which will end up being reclaims.

This is about the same gate as Atma, and we know how that turned out when devs delayed novus because not enough people had animus e.e

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

I barely go past 22 steps because I can't fit more than 1 MMII on average without more than 2 TotT procs, which will end up being reclaims.

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Your doing something wrong.

43 steps isn't that insane, it's only about 10 ToT procs. I had several 100% that didn't have an Excellent on BB that went well into the 40's.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

43 steps isn't that insane, it's only about 10 ToT procs. I had several 100% that didn't have an Excellent on BB that went well into the 40's.

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"Only" 10 ToT procs e.e I get 3-5 on average. The times I do get around 10 are when I end up with a 100% quality. Any other time I fall bit short because of failed HTs or not enough CP from ToT.

Do you use SHII at all when using rapid synthesis and Hasty touch?

Its seems hard at first, I lose alot of mats in the beginning as well, until I revised my rotations.
While I lose alot of mats for my first 2 crafting job's Master II book, I never lose much for my remaining 6.

Remember to always use RECLAIM !
My rotation - Keep TOT and Steady Hands II

Comfort zone
Inner Quiet
Reclaim
Hasty Touch until 20 DUR
Comfort Zone (swap if CZ still has stacks)
Master Mend II
Waste Note
Piece by Piece x3 (I gamble at 90% no steady hands - only one TOT allowed during Waste Not phase)
Hasty Touch until (40 or 35DUR -4 remaining steps)
Caculate remaining CP

Steady Hands (see if I have CP to use these)
Great Strides
Innovation

Ingenuity II (This is a must, make sure u have CP for it.. else break!!)
Byregots (Use byregot's if Good/Excellent on finishing)
Careful Synthesis x3 until finished. (break if I am not satisfied with the HQ results)

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Originally Posted by Mrydeen

snip...

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Using Reclaim on the third step of a craft might just be the worst suggestion I've ever seen on these forums, and that says a lot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chrillix

Using Reclaim on the third step of a craft might just be the worst suggestion I've ever seen on these forums, and that says a lot.

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:D .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chrillix

Using Reclaim on the third step of a craft might just be the worst suggestion I've ever seen on these forums, and that says a lot.

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Yes and No, I agree that the 55Cp is excessive, that being said, there are advantages to using reclaim as part of the rotations.

1) It reduces your risk of gambling, because very often you reach the end phase, gamble, only to not have CP to reclaim
2) It stops you from giving up, because so many rotations tell you to just give up when u fail one hasty touch - or fail to reach 9 on inner quiet.

That said, I am 4 star all craft and unlocked on all Master II. I have not lost any materials ever since my first master II book. And this post is mostly about the lottery and huge material losses

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mrydeen

Yes and No, I agree that the 55Cp is excessive, that being said, there are advantages to using reclaim as part of the rotations.

1) It reduces your risk of gambling, because very often you reach the end phase, gamble, only to not have CP to reclaim
2) It stops you from giving up, because so many rotations tell you to just give up when u fail one hasty touch - or fail to reach 9 on inner quiet.

That said, I am 4 star all craft and unlocked on all Master II. I have not lost any materials ever since my first master II book. And this post is mostly about the lottery and huge material losses

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You should have enough foresight to see if you have enough CP to afford a reclaim or not. As far as Master II books are concerned, you need an excellent (or a very good streak of successful HT and a good).

I still must be doing somethig wrong if reclaim has never failed you, considering I had lost my materials twice in 3 crafts, both with reclaim

I had a bit of 'bad' luck when doing reinforced darksteel hooks. I got my 3 hq and had 4 nq. I decided to make 1 more nq to get the supra and got an hq with 1% chance. It was a waste of 2 fc3 because you can't use hq for the supra turn in.

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Originally Posted by Azukii

I had a bit of 'bad' luck when doing reinforced darksteel hooks. I got my 3 hq and had 4 nq. I decided to make 1 more nq to get the supra and got an hq with 1% chance. It was a waste of 2 fc3 because you can't use hq for the supra turn in.

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Had this same thing happen to me, lol. HQ at 1% when I didn't even need it anymore, and can do nothing with it. :( I threw it away.

Honestly, i would have said it was a lottery as well and it definitely was for the first 3 supra's but the last 3 i did straight up 3hq and 5nq with a 6th nq or a fail. Which to me, is NOT bad at all.

I am not sure what i did but i made sure to use at least 3 mastermend 2. I mostly got most of my hq's within less than 5 tries with the exception of leatherworker which i didn't mind nq cause i was levelling my ltw desynthesis and culinarian which i had 7 nq and already had a supra so that is all a total waste. The rest my hq turn in i got it reliably fast even 3 classes which only had 1 nq. I had the artisan offhand fully melded but no supra except for culinarian.

I´m getting mad with this Master books/desynth...
trying for hours now and not getting even half the good proccs for ToT´s to get the rotation finish.... not to speak of getting a excellent/good near the end


meanwhile running out of shards cause reclaim dont save them....
running out of FCIII cause the 10% fail of reclaim seems to like me...
getting new FCIII from wedding stuff with ~20% drop chance on 88% desynth success ( both % feels less like the 10% reclaim fail increases)
that sometimes it would be cheaper buying on the marketplace....

And the Mastercraft.... even with lower requirements for the Artisant Spectacles and the tools, it wont change my pitch rove ( 3 MC from Weaver tool pre patch, after patch just getting nuggets or Ingots when my pitch rove took a break)

I'm really fed up with this rng random luck....

I'm the last who want it easy, enjoying the 3-4 Star crafts a lot, but a rng rotation with rng conditions, rng reclaim to loose rng gained Mats from a rng desynth and a 100% waste of shards, buffood and lifetime....