Too much spellspeed screwing up AOE-rotation.

Hey guys,

I've been maining blm for about 9 months now and lately I've started to notice something that <never> happened before.

I have a nexus with max spellspeed, rest crit, because grade 4 crit materia costs 800K each on my server, and frankly, for many personal reasons I preferred spell speed over crit up untill now.

In my "max dps set" (keeping acc as low as possible, while maximizing Int/Crit/SS/Det) I currently have 546 spellspeed.

While single target casting I personally can't wish for enough spellspeed, but the problem starts when AOE-ing...
Starting every now and then since 2.3, and now with the new gear from 2.4 with even more spellspeed, happening more and more up to the point where it's happening about 30-40% of the time now, I've been casting <too> fast during aoe phases, resulting in serieus DPS drops.

After the standard double/triple flare, I use transpose after the last flare and I spam my fire 3 button (so it starts as soon as you get the first mana tick), the casttime of this fire 3 <used> to be perfectly timed right after the 2nd manatick, allowing for 2 fire 2's + flare and repeating the proces.

Now however, with all this spellspeed, the end of the fire 3 cast sometimes happens right <before> the 2nd manatick. So I don't have the 2384 mana (251 piety build) from the 2nd manatick, but only have the mana from the first tick.

But the problem does not stop there, and this might be a bug. The first manatick normally gives me 1192 mana, but when the fire 3 cast finishes right before the 2nd manatick, giving me just the mana from the 1st tick, I do <not> end up with 1192 mana, but with just 1000. Yes, exactly one thousand mana.

1192 mana would still be enough for atleast a fire 2 + flare, but 1000 mana is not enough for that, so you're forced to instantly go back to flaring + transposing.


I know there's a few solutions for this problem

A) Re-fusing my nexus without any spellspeed, but that would hurt my single target dps.
B) Waiting 1 second before casting fire 3.

But honestly, firstly, the 1000 mana instead of 1192 mana seems more like a bug than anyting else to me, and secondly, all of this makes the stat spellspeed less desired than anything else, because it really takes the flow out of the game when you need to wait with your fire 3 every time, especially when you're used to spamming fire 3 as soon as you hit transpose for 9 months.


Has any other black mage experienced this aswell? Any other tips, feedback or suggestions will be very much appreciated.

hmm, so BLM is also complaining of too much spell speed on gear? Atleast you guys get stats on the new gear thats useful to you.

/smn

While I don't have my spell speed quite that high, I have noticed I need to wait just a second or two before casting fire 3. It has actually benefited me in that it gives me time to decrease aggro, especially in ST. My suggestion is just wait the extra second. If you're really concerned your dps is going down because of this, just cast a scathe while waiting after the first tick. Not aoe but still doing something.

This isn't a problem with spell speed, but rather the timing you get with the server MP regen ticks.

All you have to do is delete F2s from your AoE rotation after your F3 cast to where you can Flare/Transpose afterwards. Not a big deal and sure as heck isn't worth gimping yourself by dropping your spell speed numbers.

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Originally Posted by Numenor1379

This isn't a problem with spell speed, but rather the timing you get with the server MP regen ticks.

All you have to do is delete F2s from your AoE rotation after your F3 cast to where you can Flare/Transpose afterwards. Not a big deal and sure as heck isn't worth gimping yourself by dropping your spell speed numbers.

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Leaving out Fire 2's would also srly gimp the rotation though, most of the time you need those 1 or 2 fire 2's to be able to actually finsih them off with flare. Otherwise you're sitting there with no mana, waiting for manaticks and having to cast a whole fire 3 before you can finish them while all the mobs have like 3 % health left~.

yup compared with my friend recently. My I think 450 SS blm could throw out more Fire IIs than his mid 500s ss blm. Not reallt sure, as he's the main blm and I'm not, but he is making a similar complaint as you.

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Originally Posted by Pyroclastic

But the problem does not stop there, and this might be a bug. The first manatick normally gives me 1192 mana, but when the fire 3 cast finishes right before the 2nd manatick, giving me just the mana from the 1st tick, I do <not> end up with 1192 mana, but with just 1000. Yes, exactly one thousand mana.

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If the MP tick happens late in a cast (~ last 0.5s) which would remove Umbral Ice, you end up with an MP tick as if you had neither Umbral Ice nor Astral Fire up. This is done in order to prevent us from using Transpose > Flare > Flare.

After you Transpose, you get 1192 MP from an MP tick in Umbral Ice 1, then you spend 266 casting Fire 3, putting you at 926. You receive the second MP tick late during the Fire 3 cast, so it only gives you 74 MP, putting you at 1000 MP.

I'm running 593 Spell Speed on my dungeon set, and this is what works for me personally. After I Transpose, I don't mash Fire 3 right away. As soon as I see the MP tick (I just watch for a color change in the MP bar), then I hit Fire 3. Just the delay from human reaction time (0.2~0.25s) is enough to ensure a second full MP tick, which leaves you with enough MP to Fire 2 twice and Flare. Since the rotation is dependent upon Transpose's cooldown, waiting that fraction of a second doesn't have any impact upon your DPS.

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Originally Posted by Numenor1379

This isn't a problem with spell speed, but rather the timing you get with the server MP regen ticks.

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It's both. People that run lower Spell Speed values typically never encounter this.

Just apply a thunder dot after transposing if the mob will live long enough.

Or when doing trash mobs, run a crit/det set. There still isn't any need for full aoe in FcoB (some decent Flare opportunities, but never any need for huge amounts of AOE. Maybe T12 depending on your tactic. Not sure about T13).

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Originally Posted by HaroldSaxon

Just apply a thunder dot after transposing if the mob will live long enough.

Or when doing trash mobs, run a crit/det set. There still isn't any need for full aoe in FcoB (some decent Flare opportunities, but never any need for huge amounts of AOE. Maybe T12 depending on your tactic. Not sure about T13).

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T13 has full on AoE in the add phase. Crit's quite incredible in T13, both for the AoE, and for bursting down wyverns and getting the off-tank back to hurting the boss in non-Defiance.

T12, it's ideal to push with 4 Bennu and AoE them, saving LB3 for Phoenix. Using LB2 on them just means you have to ST largely and is a waste of bar since you just shift the DPS from BLM to LB2. It sounds quite strange but in practice you'll push at a very similar timing even if you lose a 50-60K AoE attack.

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Originally Posted by ShinryuReishiki

After you Transpose, you get 1192 MP from an MP tick in Umbral Ice 1, then you spend 266 casting Fire 3, putting you at 926. You receive the second MP tick late during the Fire 3 cast, so it only gives you 74 MP, putting you at 1000 MP.

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You should be under UI1 when the Fire3 goes off though, halving the cost to 133.

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Originally Posted by ShinryuReishiki

I'm running 593 Spell Speed on my dungeon set, and this is what works for me personally. After I Transpose, I don't mash Fire 3 right away. As soon as I see the MP tick (I just watch for a color change in the MP bar), then I hit Fire 3. Just the delay from human reaction time (0.2~0.25s) is enough to ensure a second full MP tick, which leaves you with enough MP to Fire 2 twice and Flare. Since the rotation is dependent upon Transpose's cooldown, waiting that fraction of a second doesn't have any impact upon your DPS.

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Best solution, just don't button mash

I was in a hurry to leave to work, so didn't read all the responses, so sorry if there's a already someone saying this: But You don't have to wait 1 sec after the 1st MP tick. Simply just take a look at your fire 3 cast time. is it under 3 sec? if No, don't spam the fire 3 button, just react to the mp tick, with human reaction time, it should give you enough time to get the 2nd mp tick. If your cast time is under 3 sec, calculate how much under it is. i.e if it's 2.70, you have to wait that 0.3sec after the first tick to get the 2nd mp tick, becuase from what I know, all MP ticks are 3 sec from each other. So, just go at a dummy, and practice the timing.

Also, nerfin your 1v1 dmg because your timing on aoe rotation is a little off? Ok, I bet your T6-9 runs lacks alot from that aoe rotation problem of yours.

And the "bug" where you end up with 1000 mana and not 1192, fire III costs MP when cast you know? (Haven't checked the mp cost during Umbral, so don't know if the mp cost is correct though, if that's what you meant)

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

You should be under UI1 when the Fire3 goes off though, halving the cost to 133.

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266 is the halved cost. Fire 3 would be ridiculous if it cost less than Fire~

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Originally Posted by ShinryuReishiki

266 is the halved cost. Fire 3 would be ridiculous if it cost less than Fire~

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Maybe the cost is 1/4 then, I'm fairly sure that Fire3 is only 133 in UI.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

T13 has full on AoE in the add phase. Crit's quite incredible in T13, both for the AoE, and for bursting down wyverns and getting the off-tank back to hurting the boss in non-Defiance.

T12, it's ideal to push with 4 Bennu and AoE them, saving LB3 for Phoenix. Using LB2 on them just means you have to ST largely and is a waste of bar since you just shift the DPS from BLM to LB2. It sounds quite strange but in practice you'll push at a very similar timing even if you lose a 50-60K AoE attack.

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Some interesting stuff on T13.

For T12, I think we're going to end up trying that as we've got two BLM and it makes more sense.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Maybe the cost is 1/4 then, I'm fairly sure that Fire3 is only 133 in UI.

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UI1 is 1/2, UI2/3 is 1/4

I had this problem for sure when patch hit. don't remember what my ss was before patch in full i110.

anyway now its sitting at 487 with some ironworks gear.

somehow ive adjusted to the new speed quite well, i don't seem to have the issue anymore, maybe im in auto delay mode or something cus I usually wait a moment to transpose after flare due to if hitting it too early you wont get thrown into umbral ice on an odd occasion.

Well, I'm here to say that I've found a solution that works really wel for me! Instead of watching my mana and press F3 "as soon as I see the manatick", I just don't look at it at all. After transpose I just press the F3 button every 0.3-0.5 seconds, as if you were tabbing your finger to the rhythm of a song. This allows you to cast F3 as soon as you have mana, without paying any attention to your manabar or whatever. Been testing this consistently for a good week now and I never had the problem again since I started doing this. AND on top of that, you get to keep your flow of the rotation!

More spellspeed please! ;D

/happytobeBLMagain.

What mobs are you fighting that they are still alive after a double or triple flare with raging strikes? Or is your other dps just not aoe'ing? I've never had this problem but then again after transpose I use Blizzard II and then Freeze before I use Fire III, however mobs are usually dead by the time I use Fire III again, that or they're so low hp that I can't even get a fire II cast off because the mob I'm targeting keeps dying. But yeah at the end of the day I would recommend just making a crit/det set for dungeons since spell speed doesn't really help aoe. Even if you have 44 spell speed on your weapon, among the i110 gear most of the gear has an alternative without spell speed. For i130/120 you'll have a harder time avoiding spell speed sadly :/.