A More Intelligent Loot System

Sqenix

The loot system you use for new raid content is the traditional MMO loot system. There's a table of available loot for a boss and a set number of pieces that will drop. From systems such as this, the common frustration of having useless loot hit the floor is a regular occurrence.

Last night my group killed Turn 13. We should have had it dead several nights ago but each night we went in to raid we were faced with continuous disconnections by multiple raid members due to a number of factors (which is another story entirely). That said, our loot from last night was as follows:

- Healing robe (yay!)
- Dragoon spear (wat?)

We have no Dragoon in your group. We've never had a Dragoon in our group. We have no desire to have a Dragoon in our group nor will we ever - even if you buff them. The members of our raid play the classes we play because that's what we enjoy to raid with. We have two MNK, a BLM (me), a BRD, and then the standard tank and healer setup. Why does it make sense for a Dragoon spear to drop? Yes, yes, yes - random loot is random. But why does that have to be the case? It's not enough in my mind to simply argue that it should be random because that's how it's always been. Rather, why shouldn't we improve upon that?

I'm a developer (specifically web) for a living and have worked in the gaming industry on large titles in the past. That said, I can't even imagine the amount of data you have available at all times to play with. Why not code a system such that when loot is seeded (either at instance creation time or upon boss death - I'm not 100% sure when it is you determine the loot for a turn) that you look at the jobs in the raid and set the loot tables accordingly. You could even take it a step further and check the jobs these players have leveled and limit the loot table to that instead. In fact, there are hundreds of permutations you could decide upon that all would be substantial improvements over pure "random" loot.

As an alternative to the above, why not simply adopt a loot lockout system such as is used in CT? Allow each player 1 or maybe 2 (if you're feeling generous) pieces of loot per week but allow the raids to be run as many times as desired.

Watching your very first t13 weapon hit the floor is no fun and really puts a damper on the whole experience.

Random loot increases the amount of times you need to run an instance, which in turn increases the amount of time you play the game, which in turn increases the amount of subscriptions, which in turn increases the amount of money made. It's really that simple.

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Originally Posted by Someguy

Random loot increases the amount of times you need to run an instance, which in turn increases the amount of time you play the game, which in turn increases the amount of subscriptions, which in turn increases the amount of money made. It's really that simple.

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I'm familiar with this argument but I don't buy the result. I don't feel that chain of logic is always correct:

Random loot ==> More time in game ==> More subscriptions ==> More money made

or is it:

Random loot ==> Player frustration ==> Subscription cancelled or allowed to end ==> Money lost

I would argue the latter is just as valid a case as the prior. I've seen it first hand across 12 years of MMO gaming. Instead, why can't we have the following:

Non-random loot ==> Less time focusing on particular area of the game ==> Player satisfaction increased ==> More/retained subscriptions ==> More money made.

The "more time spent in game" argument falls flat not just due to the above but based on the following as well:

1) Regardless of whether it's random or non-random loot, the "raid week" will still remain a constant - Tuesday night for a few hours and then we're done with that aspect for a week.

2) Sometimes the loot actually never drops. For example, our Paladin went into FCoB without his 115 sword across some obscene amount of weeks farming T9. It simply never dropped.

I would prefer a token system myself. Drop armor fragment or a weapon fragment instead of the armor itself that can be traded in for weapon/armor of your choice. It would let groups divide up gear how they see fit and eliminate possibility of the weeks of repeated drops or drops for jobs no one has.

Random drops as they are now combined with the complete weekly lockout just make it aggravating. We should have one or the other, but not both.

I suppose both are valid points. I guess it comes down to which they think is more prevelant.

1. Person who keeps playing until he gets his random loot

2. Person who quits because he never sees his loot because of randomness.

3. Person who gets all their specific non-random loot and therefore has no reason to keep playing.

It really is a coin flip on which one would be the better option.

Something would be better. I started clearing turn7 arond week 3 of SCoB and never saw HA legs. Still haven't either with a dozen or so clears since 2.4.

I never saw t9 blade either in 25 ish kills.

The problem with a system like that is that for all you or the developers know, there might be someone in the party who actually does want that particular piece of loot for whatever reason.

For instance, I plan on leveling BRD as my second job once I complete the story with my current job. I haven't started leveling it yet, but if BRD gear drops in something I'm running, I Greed on it for future use. Another friend is doing the same thing only with NIN; she is waiting for the rush to die down before she starts leveling it.

There is nothing in our game data to indicate that we would want those items, but we do want them.

Kick a Monk and get a Dragoon. Problem solved.

The system is sound and nearly perfect, no changes needed.

"Someguy" explains perfectly why this method was chosen, it also prevents a loot master from trolling others or declaring how loot will be dispersed. Furthermore, "someguy's" arguments are re-inforced by "SirTaint's" comments on how many times he has done runs trying to get the loot. Developers know all you want is the loot (let's be honest with ourselves here), so anything that can be done to make you want it more and to keep trying to get it more often will be encouraged and deployed by the developers.

No one rolled Greed on the weapon? I find it hard to believe that not a single person has DRG at 50, even if they don't ever use it.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

I would prefer a token system myself. Drop armor fragment or a weapon fragment instead of the armor itself that can be traded in for weapon/armor of your choice. It would let groups divide up gear how they see fit and eliminate possibility of the weeks of repeated drops or drops for jobs no one has.

Random drops as they are now combined with the complete weekly lockout just make it aggravating. We should have one or the other, but not both.

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You mean like what they did with the i90 gear? I don't like that myth gear is available in this way now, but I like the system implemented.

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Originally Posted by Amelia_Pond_Behemoth

You mean like what they did with the i90 gear? I don't like that myth gear is available in this way now, but I like the system implemented.

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Yea pretty much. Hopefully they are testing the waters for such a system.

Getting a pair of earrings each week would be a lot less annoying if we could pass them to whoever needed them in the group and get earrings for everybody instead of getting the same earrings week after week that only one person needed.

This way works for me. I can keep playing a black mage and gear other classes.

I think its fine, I'm sure someone must play DRG as an alt or something, even if just for fun (I tank mostly for fun, not serious raids and if a sword dropped in the final coil, I would gladly have it)

Hell, I don't have DRG at 50 and if the lance dropped, I would roll on it, would give me some incentive to reach 50 with it.